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Ra’Shede Hageman

Discussion in 'Draft Talk' started by ivo610, Feb 6, 2014.

  1. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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  2. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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  3. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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  4. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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  5. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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  6. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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  7. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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  8. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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  9. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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  10. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    Thank for posting this!

    I am nervous about taking Hageman in the 1st. I see a somewhat better version of Jerel Worthy in him and that's not good. Two things stand out. Scouts see him as taking plays off, the same thing they said about Worthy, and his overall role as a DT as a guy who disrupts the play is not the best. Great run stuffer, decent pass rusher, great athlete--incredible athlete apparently-- but his motor is questionable.

    I don't a Worthy, take 2.
     
  11. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I'd like this pick better than Perry or Jones, but I think we might do better at #21.

    Rob Rang's "cons" are worth noting:

    "At times struggles to locate the football quickly, can appear a bit stiff changing directions and shows just average speed and determination in pursuit, despite being subbed often."

    I'd add his poor pad level. We like to mock MM's call for improved pad level as the seeming panacea for all that goes wrong on the line of scrimmage. But it does matter. Hageman sets head up/shoulders up and has a propensity to stand up off the snap. You can get away with that with sheer talent against college boys, but you'll bet blown off the ball or cut down in the NFL if you make a habit of it.

    I'm not going to read all of those links above, so I'll curate a bit and provide a few salient nuggets I've read about the guy:

    - He's been clocked faster than Watt in the 10 yard split in the 40.
    - He's been reported to bench close to 500 lbs.
    - He's an ex-basketball player / TE who reportedly can 360 dunk (which is odd given his apparent stiffness).

    This is a high risk / high reward pick that needs fundamental work. Not crazy about it.

    You can see the good and the bad in this video from 2012 Wisconsin game. The pad level and change in direction issues are clearly on display.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2014
  12. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    You would have to really have a long talk with the kid and his position coaches. Find out if he is interested in listening, learning, and working on technique.

    This is a pick where he may do very little in the NFL or he may absolutely dominate. Its a big gamble.
     
  13. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    Hageman does seem like he is the physical freak everyone says he is, but I see something of Jerel Worthy in him motor-wise and that concerns me. We got one Worthy already.
     
  14. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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  15. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Anyone have any questions they would like me to ask him?
     
  16. PikeBadger

    PikeBadger Cheesehead

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    Some of these same comments were made about Richard Seymour and Dana Stubblefield before they were drafted late in round 1. Never know for sure about these types. I'd prefer we stay away from these types. Our coaching staff hasn't proven they are capable of getting the best out of guys that aren't self-motivated and self-disciplined. More guys like Daniels, Mathews and Hawk would give me a warm fuzzy feeling.
     
  17. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Im not sure of the validity of these comments to be honest. My interaction with him has left me questioning these reports.

    I would also like to say he is a lean guy for his size, I think he could put on alot of weight if he was directed to.
     
  18. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    With the Peppers signing, I think it's safe to scratch Hageman off the Packer board.
     
  19. Vrill

    Vrill Cheesehead

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    Im thinking LB/Safety/TE in the first round........................Unless we trade back.
     
  20. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Really? I think his position is a position of need
     
  21. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    And what position would that be, he asked rhetorically?
     
  22. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    D line as he is projected to be either a de or d tackle.

    Peppers isn't a fix, he's a bandaid
     
  23. HardRightEdge

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    That would be base DE at 5 technique or DT in nickel at 3 technique. Hageman is not a NT.

    5 tech DEs are Peppers, Jones, Daniels, Boyd and Worthy; it's also where Raji played for most of the last 2 years though we expect him at NT this year.

    3 tech DTs are Daniels, Jones, Peppers, Neal, Raji, Boyd and Worthy.

    We're so loaded with 5 tech DE / 3 tech DT swing men I can barely stand it.

    The fact they gave Guion a $100,000 signing bonus indicates he's more than just a camp body...he's been penciled in as Raji's backup at NT where none existed previously.

    Further, Peppers may be a band-aid, but his contract is structured as a 2-year band-aid...he has a $5 million dead cap number in 2015.

    If anything, Raji is more the one-year-and-done guy, which brings us back to Nix as the more likely choice provided Worthy is bounced to open up a spot. As it stands now, we have 7 1/2 D-Linemen expected to make this club, and that's a full quota.

    However, with free agency concentrated on defense, and particularly the line with Raji, Peppers, Guion and even Neal for 3 tech according to McCarthy, I would not be surprised if the D-Line is passed over entirely in the upper rounds.
     
  24. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Fair assessment, but drafting isn't about this years impact player, it's about down the road. Of those players you listed how many do you see being around for sure 3 years from now? Maybe 1.

    If a d line prospect is highly graded and available I see no reason to grab him. I don't put a whole lot of faith into a 100k signing kinda guy.

    Neal I'm curious to see how often he plays at line this season as opposed to with the linebackers
     
  25. HardRightEdge

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    Besides QBs, it must be figured that WR, FS, ILB and LT may not give you much their first year. TEs expected to be pass catchers fall in with the WRs in this regard. It's a rare free safety or ILB who can step in and call signals right out of the box. Even the highest drafted OTs usually spend most or all of their first year at RT before moving over to LT in year 2. These positions in particular require multi-year planning.

    Besides ball carrying, D-Line has the shallowest learning curve on either side of the ball. As Trgovac is fond of saying, there's not much that's complicated in what his guys need to do. The key is having talent and the right personnel mix for each situation.

    In other words, these 3 tech / 5 tech swing men can be acquired as we go, unlike other positions. This is illustrated by the free agent additions on the line this year.

    As far as Neal goes, I was surprised McCarthy mentioned him as a 3-tech guy. He's awfully light now at 275 lbs. for that spot, especially given all those other guys who have a shot at playing there (with Daniels the one lock). He'll probably split time at 3 tech and OLB. If Perry doesn't show us more Neal could be spending more time than expected at OLB.

    As for who's around in 3 years...you'd hope that would be Daniels and Jones, at a minimum. Maybe Boyd. And 3 drafts and 2 free agency periods in the interim even if we don't go first round for D-Line this time around.

    The $100k signing bonus guy plays a different position than Hageman. The point was that adding to the D-Line will require subtraction. McCarthy has carried as few as 6 D-lineman in the past; we're at 7.5 now. So...who are you going to cut? It would have to be Worthy I suppose.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2014

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