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pyle anubis

Discussion in 'The Atrium' started by Zero2Cool, Sep 29, 2006.

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  1. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Since continuing to ruin a thread with this non sense I figured we should pick up out side of the Packer Fan Forum. I didn't go to Smack Area because I hope to keep this civilized.




    It's hard to debate with someone who fails to see the other side. Not necessarily agreeing, but acknowledging the other perception.

    Sorry you guys feel I can't handle a debate, because truly you know I can. I'm a lot more objective in my views than the two of you combined.

    Each of you have great opinions from time to time. The problem is its only about 20% of the time. I can understand your frustration and negative outlook on the Packers. Heck, I've said numerous times (today as well) that I've somewhat lost faith in Ted and Mike but I'm not willing to jump ship just yet. I still try to find the positives in everything because thats how I was raised. I was taught no matter how negative something is try to find something positive in it.

    IF that makes me
    as Anubis says part of the problem, so be it.

    You both have something to offer here. It's too bad more than half of it is degrading the Packers and ignoring the positive aspects. I really hope your daily lives don't consist of this train of thought. If it does, I hope something happens positive for you to alter it.

    In response to me not being able to handle a debate. I'll take this more into depth too.

    I love it when people debate with me. It gives me a chance to see a different side of the agenda. That's why I say you two have something to offer. I admit it, I tend to be a homer at times and its good to have a reality check. How you guys go about it though is so poor and negative.

    Someone says the Packers were #1 in Pass Defense, your response is YEA BECAUSE THAT FAILURE TED ASSEMBLED A CRAPPY TEAM THAT WAS BEHIND ALL GAME SO TEAMS JUST RAN THE BALL!!

    Personally, I think that could be handled differently. Is the statement true? Most definetely. Did we HAVE a 1 rank defense? No way!

    Why not respond with something like. "Our defense was number one in pass defense, but wasn't it because most teams were outscoring the Packers and were running out the clock?" This gives someone else the chance to jump aboard your ship and agree and yes you are bringing a negative out but its not in a negative manner. See the difference?

    I know I do it wrong at times and I try my best to correct it. Do I succeed? For the most part, yes. Atleast thats what others PM me and tell me via emails an IM's.

    If you guys go to a different site I won't lose much sleep, I'd rather you stay here with a less attacking negative outlook. That's just my take though. It's your world, I just read about it.
     
  2. Anubis

    Anubis Cheesehead

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    The problem isn't the fact that we don't see eye to eye, the problem is when users resort to the following rather than debating facts:

    1. Questioning your "fandom" because you post something negative.
    2. Jump to the most extreme example in a half-assed attempt to prove a point.
    3. Claiming TT makes millions as GM and since I am not, my opinion is worthless.
    4. Resort to personal insults once they have lost the debate.

    This is the kind of infantile behaviour that have been posting about. I posted you were part of the problem because you seem to question Pyle as a fan in pretty much every thread he posts in. This isn't debating an issue, and is a prime example of how this board has taken the downward spiral as of late.

    As far as your example of last year's #1 pass defense, it is not exactly accurate. My arguement was the Pack lost 5 games by 3 points or less last season, and I don't recall watching many teams trying to run the clock out while sitting on a 3 point lead. That response is a far cry from the example you made, and makes me wonder if you actually read what I post.

    I don't feel I have a "negative attacking outlook". On the contrary, it seems that I am attacked when I post about what I feel are boneheaded moves by TT and the Packer management. Sorry, but I don't look at the world through rose-coloured glasses, and will continue to call a spade a spade 10 times out of 10. If being realistic is too negative for you, that is your problem not mine. I have stated numerous times that there have been some positive developments since TT took over as GM. Unfortunately, I have seen many more negatives IMO, and don't feel he is a very competant GM.

    As far as receiving PMs supporting your stance against Pyle and myself, I will tell you honestly that I have received them myself regarding the problems I have pointed out on the forum. One sender is a long-time user that is not going to post any further on this forum until Ryan addresses the problems I posted about specifically certain users that are overrunning every thread with infantile nonsense.
     
  3. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    1, Questioning ones fandom is a bit overzealous and I am guilty of implying it. The problem with this is everyone has an opinion what a fan is. Mine? I feel a true fan of a team sticks by them and their decisions for better and worse. Its okay to question the decisions and moves an lack of moves, but not giving the staff a chance I feel is a copout and I don't consider that a fan. Does that mean they are NOT a fan? By all means, no. Only in my perception.

    2, Something that one feels is half assed could be full fledged in anothers perception. Knowing the difference is key.
    For instance. Javon Walker.
    Man, I loved this guy. Still think he's a good player and probably a decent guy deep down. But I noticed a dramatic change with him after his Pro Bowl. He had received millions of dollars before even stepping foot on a NFL field. He had a shaggy first two seasons and then had a break out year. Suddenly his pay scale becomes an issue. He didn't offer any of that money back in the first two years, no one asked for it back.
    He wanted more money with two years left on his contract. The Packers have had a history of not redoing contracts until being in the final year. They stayed their course like a stable team should(in my opinion). IF they dont stay the course every player will want a new contract at inapprioprate times.
    Here's the tricky part. We have some people who blame Ted for this because he didnt' give in and re do his contract. Did Javon deserve more money? Yes. Do they consider the fact that Driver had similar numbers and didn't make a public outcry for a new contract? No, he didn't.
    My perception is this was 85% on Javon. It's (I think)widely known the salary cap left overs can be used as a phony bonus on a contract and if not used its lost. So I think Javon should have quietly asked (he may have an was turned down an went public with his demand) for a raise via his agent who definetely is aware of the 'left overs' and asked for some of that coin. In response Ted should have thrown some his way. That's my take.
    I don't know what happened behind closed doors and I doubt many if any one here does. But I personally knowing what I do of the situation and Javon being one of my top five favorite players can't blame Ted with what I know went down. But gosh, Javon is a special talent I can't see the Packers NOT redoing his contract when the time came and paying him handsomly. Javon was in my opinion impatient and should have been loyal to the team that gave him millions of dollars before stepping foot in their uniform or any NFL uniform.


    3, I've said "they make the big bucks for a reason an we dont for a reason" I find it interesting you mention this because on my way home from work today I was listening to the radio and this was discussed. A caller called in an asked "why is that you and I can see the mistakes on defense why cant the coaching staff?"
    It's true. If we see it they have to be seeing it to. Right? Just because they have a large bank account doesnt mean they are smarter than us.
    The flipside to this though is they do this for a living, we do it as a hobby. In my eyes, thats huge. I know if I were to spend hours scouting players I'd have different perceptions on players as well.
    Example. Zone defense with Harris and Woodson, I think its foolish. I think they work best Man to Man. Does the staff see this? Or am I wrong? Who knows.
    We can't accurately say we know as much as them, but to completely discredit someone because they are not in the profession I think is unjustified.



    4, I think people mistake my comments on personal insults. I never mean them. It's jus my make up. I say things in an off tone that if you heard me you knew I wasn't insulting you, but rather joking around. is this a good thing to use on the internet? hell no, no one can hear me or see my expressions so I'm at fault for doing it. I take responsibility for it too. I've PM'd ppl (to those who didn't reply childishly and/or insulting) numerous times apologizing for coming off the wrong way and cleared the air.
     
  4. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Only issue I have with the "tt haters" is that there is things going on behind closed doors that we are not privy to..He has final say but needs to take the advice of everyone under him...

    Just like when Rodgers was negotiating for his contract..TT was NOT involved, it was Andrew Brantd..

    I recall an article from jsonline where TT specifically said Andrew was handling it all..

    Everyone is fast to put all the blame on Ted, but just like any other boss, he has people offering advice..
     
  5. Anubis

    Anubis Cheesehead

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    TT has advisors and listens to those people under him, but he still has the final say in the matter. I have stated time and time again that there has been some bright spots under TT, but IMO I see a lot more negative ones.
     
  6. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    This is just my 2 cents

    The big thing I notice is that some will debate and that's find as long as it's football but some have to add a comment that is ridiculous or because they don't like the person because of an internet board they have to find some way to denounce that person rather they say their name or not.

    Zero has provided examples of that happening.

    I look no farther than his.

    Yes I'll call you out Anubius. You and Pyle complain about people attacking you and not keeping it football related yet you give them a reason to attack you. Who are you implying to when you make that above statement. Hard to tell. Perhaps anyone that disagrees with you. Perhaps the person you are debating with.

    Trom response was uncalled for in that thread and ridiculous but you gave him a reason to say something with that post. Now if you guys would of left at that then find by me. I can live with that post. The thing is though then Pyle responds and then you and him go back and forth about how green your grass is and denounce other people by not saying their names. You don't have to forgive Trom for coming at you but at least he got the attention on him rather than everyone else. You say some people don't know who to agree to disagree yet I've never seen either of you do the same either. The statement is more of a slap in a face towards to the message board instead of an individual person.

    Now when I see this
    Again you just gave Zero a legit reason to make this thread and call you out. What is the point of that post? To get the final say in? Why not just ignore whatever he said. You know if your a Packer fan or not and if you believe zero is apart of the problem then keep it to yourself or pm Ryan or a mod. Also if Zero is part of the problem, then what does that make you guys? Certainly not the solution.

    Another thing is you don't dislike Ted Thompson. You both hate him.

    I look no farther than Pyle calling him a Jackass. I believe it was for trading Samkon Gado. Can't we control our emotions a little better. If you want to sound and look objective that's definitely not going to help. Have you ever met Ted Thompson? Perhaps he's a nice guy. Then again that's not the point. The point is some statements are just not called for and that would be one of them.

    The main point is you call out others and let's be honest it's mainly Trom for not talking football, yet you commit the same things. Yes some posters can stoop to a low and if that happens then so be it but how about going in a totally opposite direction instead of doing the exact same thing others do. Yes you may of not been the first and you certainly won't be the last. If you slip up once in a while that is find but guess what if you get consistent at doing this, then it becomes a problem. The problem has been created because you do the same thing as him. Maybe not to the same extent. Maybe not as severe but none the less you still do the same things.

    Personally I find a hard time of disliking someone I talk to on a message board. I think both of you can provide valid points at some times but it seems as of late that both of you and you can throw others in there as well have gotten away from those points and just seem content in posting "Ted Thompson did this" "TT should be fired" and so on and so on.

    That's my take and if you do respond it will be interesting to hear what you do. Choose your words wisely because you could very well slip up and prove my point because there have been a lot of slip up's lately.

    Too be fair though it's not just you 2. There are others that do it but perhaps this forum doesn't need Adults acting like an Adult but rather Adults setting an example for other Adults.

    I've just posted my views on an ongoing forum situation in the proper thread made to do so. Hopefully you don't take this the wrong way and you bring back some of those valid points that made you good posters.
     
  7. Ryan

    Ryan Cheesehead

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    There is so much to read in this thread I'm not even going to start. Just keep it civilized...
     
  8. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    No, It's bullshit Porky, and your little assessment is as well. You pointed out what Anubis did but I guess you missed the 5 threads before that when the post headed south. Why don't you go back and bring up posts like this made by Zero

    Thats EXACTLY the first post in there that was OFF TOPIC and INSULTING! It's clear as day!


    It happens every damn thread. Zero has been ridiculous about this lately. He and Trom do the little teaming up thing as well, so don't just mention one side Porky.


    Another big problem I have is the coaching thing that you guys constantly bring up. What the hell gives you the right to personally attack me taking my time to teach kids football. Do I come on here and insult your job? It's horseshit and the Mods of course just look the other way.

    As far as me calling TT a jackass, who cares? Are any of you guys related to him? Did I call you a Jackass? Then Zero comes up with his little ******* photo and again the mods look the other way? If that was me I would be GONE quicker than ****.


    All I hear is "you guys stop it" from the Mods. Why don't they go back and look at where the threads go wrong? I can only assume any logical person would do so. Since nothing ever changes they must be ignoring certain things for there own reasons. You want the bullshit to stop, take care of the problem. Find the person who changes every thread into an insult fest but don't get pissed at some of us who fire back.


    I just wish people would give a fair assessment of stuff but as Porky just demonstrated that won't happen because me and Porky don't see eye to eye on things. It's stuff like pointing out what me and Anubis did and ignoring WHY we did it in the first place that pisses me off.
     
  9. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Alright, let's get some decency back into this site!

    *LOCKED*
     
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