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PLZ SOME OPINIONS AND ADVICE

Discussion in 'The Atrium' started by Krazygangsta, Jan 20, 2007.

  1. Krazygangsta

    Krazygangsta Cheesehead

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    This guy approached me 2 - 3 weeks ago and he told me he would sell me a ps3 for 400$ ... so i was curious and i started asking him questions that how come it was so cheap cause i really thought that he was trying to screw me over ... so he told me that he had passed a fake card and that he wanted to sell it cause he deosnt play games ... anyways a week later i found out my friend bought and its been like 2 weeks now he has it ... so i was wondering should i go and buy 1 myself or not .... the thing im wondering is could their be any way that i get in any **** ... i do not even know the guy selling all i know is that its 400$ ... so what your opinion would they really bother investigating that far and coming to my house considering its wireless internet and stuff you know ... etc ... i really need some serious opinions (and this is in canada dont know if it makes a difference but just wanted to mention)
     
  2. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Do you know if the PS3 is stolen?
     
  3. kmac

    kmac Cheesehead

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    AADP, is the Pope Catholic?
     
  4. Krazygangsta

    Krazygangsta Cheesehead

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    well its not stollen but its been purchased by a ... frauded credit card
     
  5. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    lol, the point I was getting at is that as long as you haven't been told it's stolen, you have a reasonable out clause of charges....

    Get reassurance from the guy that it isn't stolen (not important if he lies), that way you can say that the guy assured you it wasn't stolen and you were led to believe the guy was selling it for cheap because he worked at Best Buy/Futureshop where he picked one up with a big discount. The fact that your friend bought it from the same guy and didn't say anything about it being so cheap and stolen just reaffirmed your belief that buying the PS3 was legal.

    It's not as if police have trackers on PS3s, or target people who buy PS3s that aren't straight from big franchise businesses. Theft is normal, and often times it isn't solved (small theft, PS3 maybe be expensive but it's still not that much money). Just to be on the safe side, if you do buy it, insist that the buy be done in a public place (mall, something like that) because it'd increase the credibility of your story that you didn't believe it was stolen (things stolen aren't resoled at malls or public places.... usually).

    Also you could throw in the tidbit about maturational effect should something happen.... It's further your claim you didn't know the guy was engaging in selling stolen goods. Maturational effect is basically belief that people tend to grow out of crime as they get older, and you thought the guy you bought it from (I'm assuming he is at least in his mid 20s) wouldn't engage in petty theft for something that'd net him only $400 or so dollars.

    That's my take on it, make sure you give yourself some room to have a successful defence if you are suspected of any wrong doing. Also, this in itself is such a small crime that IF you were to get caught by police, you'd get off really easy (assuming you haven't had any previous trouble with the law).

    Also if you are in good standing with those arround you in your community (neighbours, people in position of authority, teachers) and are a good student in school, that'd also go a long way in helping your claim that you didn't believe buying the PS3 to be a crime.

    Basically leave yourself a lot of deniability. However don't mistake my opinion for legal fact/advice, The advice I gave is just my opinion.
     
  6. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    How about we say that you know it was purchased on credit card, but you had no solid evidence/proof to suspect it was purchased on a fraudulent credit card.

    Morality clash: technically the guy selling the PS3 is a lier, so if he says he bought it on a fraudulent credit card (meaning he had to lie/steal stuff himself) his credibility is in question, so that right there is grounds enough to take the part where he says it was bought on a fraudulent credit card with a grain of salt (he is probably telling the truth, but you can't trust him fully anyways).

    Basically, forget the part about the part where you were told it was purchased on a fake credit card because you can't simply take the guys word for it... :lol:
     
  7. kmac

    kmac Cheesehead

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    Okay Mr. Law Student Fancypants
     
  8. Krazygangsta

    Krazygangsta Cheesehead

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    thanks alot i appreciate it ... its the smartest answer ive got on the whole net ... and on top of that he told me that ... he will give me a bill ... that if it deosnt work i can take it back ... so if the cops come or anything wich i was also doubting for a small thing like that they would investigate ... and waste their time they got bigger fish to fry ... i could tell them i didnt know it was stolen cause ... he gave me a bill with it ... anyways thx for your opinion again appreciate it
     
  9. mattresell

    mattresell Cheesehead

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    God, I love this country.

    My advice: Just buy the thing. I don't care if he stole it from Mother Theresa. It's not your responsibility to track where each and every item you purchase came from. And I assure you, the police are not going to waste their time on petty theft (<$500) cases. If they did, all pawn shops would be out of business.
     
  10. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Do not do it. Save your money. Wait for the PS3 to have been released for atleast 6-9 months. Let them make sure all the bugs have been worked out.
     
  11. PackinSteel

    PackinSteel Cheesehead

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    The bottom line is here: Theft is theft anyway you look at it, I wouldnt buy that thing, then you know for sure you wouldnt get in trouble. IMO if you want one get it from the store then you dont have any worries....
     
  12. PackinSteel

    PackinSteel Cheesehead

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    The above statement is written by heatherthepackgirl forgot to sign my husband out..sorry
     
  13. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    If the buyer is aware the item is stolen, the buyer CAN be held liable.

    If it seems fishy, don't even bother with it.
     
  14. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    A TV show said it best: Truth is relative, pick one that works.
     
  15. TOPackerFan

    TOPackerFan Cheesehead

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    This is not entirely true. If the circumstances are such that it would be reasonable to assume that the unit is stolen a person can still be charged with receiving stolen property regardles of whether they actually "knew" it was stolen.
     
  16. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Ah TOP, I was wondering when you'd post in this thread (Krazygangsta you're far better off following the stuff TOP says).

    I was thinking along the lines of what you wrote; there is a lot of emphasis on what a reasonable person would do/suspect in the law but in this situation wouldn't there be a grey area? I assume krazygangsta to be under 18, so would the issue of it being reasonable for him to assume the PS3 is stolen still apply?

    Isn't the spirit of the law, when discussing the issue of a reasonable person/reasonable to assume something, based on the fact that the measures of reasonability are far less developed in youth? Thus wouldn't children under 18 be held to a different standard of reasoning / rationality?
     
  17. trippster

    trippster Cheesehead

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    And if it is stolen you will forfiet the player.

    The reward is not worth the risk. If the savings of $200 buck is enough to tempt you then you cannot risk losing the $400. What if the player doesn't work? You can't take it back.

    The good thing is that you have a dilema about it. What action will make you feel best about yourself? Follow that answer.
     
  18. arrowgargantuan

    arrowgargantuan Cheesehead

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    homie...you're about to do business with somebody that got his product by ******* somebody else over. he's a shady dude, you don't know him, , theres $400 involved, he wouldn't think twice about getting over on you.

    and even if everything worked out fine...the cops won't get you, but i guarantee charma will.

    get a 360 instead :wink:
     
  19. Popcynical

    Popcynical Cheesehead

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    Boo! Karma only works for those who believe in it.

    Get the PS3! I wish I knew people that could get me a PS3 for $400.
     
  20. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    I don't call it "karma"........i believe what you sew, also is what you will reap. Obviously you already know it's "hot" (whether it's taken from a store, or bought with a fake card, it's stealing) so you will answer some day for your actions, good or bad.
    To me, it would not be worth the guilt of knowing that it was stolen.
    But in the end, you have to answer to your own self. Can you live with the fact that you knowingly took posession of stolen goods? It's up to you, and you alone will answer for what you do. So the opinons on here are just that, opinions of others. In the end, you are resposible for yourself, and to yourself.
    (End of sermon)
    I wasn't trying to preach, but this is the way i feel about it.
    Just my opinion.
    Cheesey
     
  21. PackinSteel

    PackinSteel Cheesehead

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    Tripp - I dunno that it is such good news that the fellow has a dilema over this. I'm no expert but I believe a large reason people commit a crime (and yes, receiving stolen goods is a crime - his line of reasoning fails right there) is that they weigh right and wrong and wrong wins.

    I'm no saint either - but I believe my transgressions are limited to a few miles over the speed limit or a "California stop" at a 4-way. The point is, there should really be no debate over this. Especially since he has even the slightest bit of an inkling of an idea that it could be "hot."

    Direct advice to the original query - don't buy the thing.

    (yes, this was actually Packinsteel this time :D )
     
  22. mattresell

    mattresell Cheesehead

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    Either ya'll are all monks or I have severely questionable morals. I see nothing immoral about buying an item that was possibly obtained via illegal means. It is not the consumer's responsibility to judge the morality of where a product came from. Everyone who believes he should not buy this Playstation simply because it may have come from an immoral act, should also not buy products from Wal-Mart, Nike, or many other international corporations that engage in questionable labor tactics. That is the exact same logic that you guys are pushing on him.

    I could be wrong, but I'm willing to bet that everyone who claims he should not buy this because it was obtained through immoral acts, also buys products from the companies I listed above who also obtain their products through immoral acts.

    You can buy whatever is presented to you at the cheapest price, or you can buy only products that are produced 100% legitimately, but you can't have both.

    Sorry I got slightly political, but what I perceive as blind hypocrisy typically annoys me. The only reason not to buy this system is that he has no protection of basic consumer rights, since the Playstation would not be purchased from a legitimate retail location.
     
  23. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    Questioable labor tatics.........the people making the products in other countries are still doing it LEGALLY. People ARE getting paid to build the products you mentioned. We might not view it as "fair" to their employees, as WE expect better pay and benefits for our work. (Thats why so many of the companies flee from America. They can get MUCH cheaper labor elsewhere.) Lets see.....if the "extra" money for this product was coming out of YOUR pocket instead of someone else's, would you be so quick to tell him to steal it? In fact, do you carry that same attitude when you go shopping, and just shop lift because "well, WalMart gets their products from places that have questional business practices?" To me, the question here is should you follow the LAW or not.
    Why do you think prices of products have to be put so high? It's because of criminals who steal, and tell themselves, "Everyone else is doing it, why shouldn't I?" (Everyone else ISN'T doing it)
    Maybe it's just my moral upbringing that causes me to act this way. I'm no saint, thats for sure, but i TRY to do the right thing. I don't try to make excuses so i can feel alright about doing the wrong thing.
    Then, just like drunks often do, they try to get others to drink, so they don't feel so bad about what they are doing. It makes it easier to do wrong when others around you are doing the same.
     
  24. trippster

    trippster Cheesehead

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    It is clearly illegal to to take reciept and have possession of stolen goods.

    Packinsteel, The fact that he has a dillema is good because while we all are tempted to do immoral things, it is our moral consience that rises up and creates the dillema. (how the hell do you spell dillema??) That in itself is a good thing. Now, the character of the individual is proven by the decision and result.
     
  25. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Point blank this is a product was bought with a fake credit card and you are aware of it.

    you have to ask YOUR SELF am I really okay with doing this..Not one answer on here will tell you how YOU should feel..The only thing your going to get from here is maybe some excellent law advice and what would happen if you got caught.


    Now do this..

    Are YOU truly okay with doing this if in fact it comes back and the cops come after you..Dont buy into they are only going to go after ""bigger" fish..

    My guess is you came here asking for advice or AN APPROVAL from people here so you felt better about doing it..Which tells me you really dont want to do it..SO DONT DO IT

    But what if this was a brand new BMW for half the original price? Would you still do it? Yes lot different type of property, but SAME PRINCIPLE..
     

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