PFF Best and Worst vs Giants

[tynimiller]

As always need 10 snaps minimum to make post...

Best Offense
Jordan Love - 93.1 (He literally was nearly immaculate on passes...his supporting cast just sucked on a lot of tosses)
Aaron Banks - 83.4 (many of us saw it, he had his best game as a Packer)
Christian Watson - 82.1
Zach Tom - 72.4
Matthew Golden - 70.0

Worst Offense
Luke Musgrave - 28.4
John FitzPatrick - 54.3
Sean Rhyan - 55.6
Rasheed Walker - 56.3
Dontayvion Wicks - 56.7


Best Defense
Micah Parsons - 89.6
Keisean Nixon - 84.5 (I DID NOT see this from first watch...have to go back cuz this seems crazy high)
Xavier McKinney - 74.1
Javon Bullard - 72.5
Carrington Valentine - 71.2

Worst Defense
Devonte Wyatt - 32.9
Isaiah McDuffie - 47.7 (forced to play middle, he is much stronger when Quay is inside)
Kingsley Enagbare - 51.8
Colby Wooden - 52.3
Quay Walker - 56.8

 

[OldSchool101]

A HUGE plus is Aaron Banks. Banks really redeemed himself there. Now not sure if the opponent strength factored more, but it’s a great confident booster for him and us.

I didn’t watch the entire game but on several Runs on the highlights Sean Rhyan was caught obliterating his opponent. Just off initial eye test he looks really solid in the Run game. He sealed that Wilson 11 yard TD run like a Vault Door. I think this change at Center shows up in the Redzone 4/4 and yards per carry might’ve been one of our best games this season. 5.6 per carry.

Now. Taking things with a grain of Salt as this was one of our weaker opponents we’ll see. Still we really Won at LOS running the ball. Hopefully a building block. Probably felt night n day for our OL after playing Philadelphia.

 

[Magooch]

28 for Musgrave...holy smokes!! you don't see em that low terribly often...

 

[milani]

As always need 10 snaps minimum to make post...

Best Offense
Jordan Love - 93.1 (He literally was nearly immaculate on passes...his supporting cast just sucked on a lot of tosses)
Aaron Banks - 83.4 (many of us saw it, he had his best game as a Packer)
Christian Watson - 82.1
Zach Tom - 72.4
Matthew Golden - 70.0

Worst Offense
Luke Musgrave - 28.4
John FitzPatrick - 54.3
Sean Rhyan - 55.6
Rasheed Walker - 56.3
Dontayvion Wicks - 56.7


Best Defense
Micah Parsons - 89.6
Keisean Nixon - 84.5 (I DID NOT see this from first watch...have to go back cuz this seems crazy high)
Xavier McKinney - 74.1
Javon Bullard - 72.5
Carrington Valentine - 71.2

Worst Defense
Devonte Wyatt - 32.9
Isaiah McDuffie - 47.7 (forced to play middle, he is much stronger when Quay is inside)
Kingsley Enagbare - 51.8
Colby Wooden - 52.3
Quay Walker - 56.8

Giants burned us on a couple drives right in the middle. Thought for a moment we had Blake Martinez covering the TE.

 

[milani]

28 for Musgrave...holy smokes!! you don't see em that low terribly often...

He earned it. His TE partner doubled his score practically.

 

[milani]

A HUGE plus is Aaron Banks. Banks really redeemed himself there. Now not sure if the opponent strength factored more, but it’s a great confident booster for him and us.

I didn’t watch the entire game but on several Runs on the highlights Sean Rhyan was caught obliterating his opponent. Just off initial eye test he looks really solid in the Run game. He sealed that Wilson 11 yard TD run like a Vault Door. I think this change at Center shows up in the Redzone 4/4 and yards per carry might’ve been one of our best games this season. 5.6 per carry.

Now. Taking things with a grain of Salt as this was one of our weaker opponents we’ll see. Still we really Won at LOS running the ball. Hopefully a building block. Probably felt night n day for our OL after playing Philadelphia.

A very FINE grain of salt.

 

[OldSchool101]

Giants burned us on a couple drives right in the middle. Thought for a moment we had Blake Martinez covering the TE.

I did notice on 1 key Pass the #89? Over the middle Quay Came down to cover a Receiver that was already accounted for. So he abandoned the Middle to double a NY player already smothered. By the time he looked back his guy was already catching the ball 6-7 yards away. Looked like he just read that play poorly or at least didn’t understand his responsibility.

 

[mradtke66]

I did notice on 1 key Pass the #89? Over the middle Quay Came down to cover a Receiver that was already accounted for. So he abandoned the Middle to double a NY player already smothered. By the time he looked back his guy was already catching the ball 6-7 yards away. Looked like he just read that play poorly or at least didn’t understand his responsibility.

We’d have to see the play. It’s also possible the other guy messed up and covered the wrong guy.

 

[OldSchool101]

We’d have to see the play. It’s also possible the other guy messed up and covered the wrong guy.

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at :26

 

[mradtke66]

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at :26

This looks like a bad choice, but it depends on what the play call is.

If this is straight cover-2, then this isn't bad. If this is Tampa-2, then he should be dropping deeper and staying more in the middle.

It also looks like they're playing some kind of game where the slot (20) is taking the flat rather than the hook zone and the corner (24) is taking the hook? If that's the case, I put more blame on Cooper, because that'd make him the flat defender to that side of the field, mirroring Bullard's (20) responsibility.

At 29s in that clip, Valentine and Nixon are both wide and deep. Bullard is wide and shallow while Cooper is medium and medium. My initial read is that Cooper should be wider and close to the LOS to deal with the running back, similar to how Bullard is dealing with 17.

I'd really need see the All-22 to make a better guess here, as I'm sure Hafley's not going to tell us the specific call he made here.

 

[milani]

This looks like a bad choice, but it depends on what the play call is.

If this is straight cover-2, then this isn't bad. If this is Tampa-2, then he should be dropping deeper and staying more in the middle.

It also looks like they're playing some kind of game where the slot (20) is taking the flat rather than the hook zone and the corner (24) is taking the hook? If that's the case, I put more blame on Cooper, because that'd make him the flat defender to that side of the field, mirroring Bullard's (20) responsibility.

At 29s in that clip, Valentine and Nixon are both wide and deep. Bullard is wide and shallow while Cooper is medium and medium. My initial read is that Cooper should be wider and close to the LOS to deal with the running back, similar to how Bullard is dealing with 17.

I'd really need see the All-22 to make a better guess here, as I'm sure Hafley's not going to tell us the specific call he made here.

Caleb Williams will see this right away. He will exploit it with Kmet or he will take off and run straight ahead if it is not there.

 

[mradtke66]

Caleb Williams will see this right away. He will exploit it with Kmet or he will take off and run straight ahead if it is not there.

It'd depend on the routes they're running and the coverage we've called to counter it.

Straight cover-2 would take away runs up the middle, because the MIKE would be closer to the LOS. Tampa-2 would make this post route more difficult because the MIKE would be more in the throwing lane. Perfect example of why I harp on "everything is a trade off."

 

[milani]

It'd depend on the routes they're running and the coverage we've called to counter it.

Straight cover-2 would take away runs up the middle, because the MIKE would be closer to the LOS. Tampa-2 would make this post route more difficult because the MIKE would be more in the throwing lane. Perfect example of why I harp on "everything is a trade off."

What Caleb will do if he does not see someone sliding into that open seam is let the rush come around him and then suddenly burst and if the middle is filled he will cut in either direction. Now Parsons can offset that if he changes where he lines up. But the Packers have got to do better at closing that seam especially in play action.

 

[El Guapo]

Musgrave was so bad, especially after the "non-catch" fumble that the coaching staff essentially benched him for the second half. I think that he saw two snaps. We can't be done with Musgrave because we need him (or someone), but I'm done with him. Either he can't play or we are completely misusing him. It seems like both equally.

Having Wooden and Wyatt rank that bad tells you all that you need to know about why our pass rush and run defense are suffering.

 

[milani]

Musgrave was so bad, especially after the "non-catch" fumble that the coaching staff essentially benched him for the second half. I think that he saw two snaps. We can't be done with Musgrave because we need him (or someone), but I'm done with him. Either he can't play or we are completely misusing him. It seems like both equally.

Having Wooden and Wyatt rank that bad tells you all that you need to know about why our pass rush and run defense are suffering.

If our run D was able to thwart Barkley and Hurts why were they below par against NY? Too short of a week? We play 2 games in 5 days next week.

 

[mradtke66]

If our run D was able to thwart Barkley and Hurts why were they below par against NY? Too short of a week? We play 2 games in 5 days next week.

The run defense did its job at 3.7 YPC. That’s excellent. Collectively, the Giants were willing to play 3 yards and a cloud of dust and GB struggled to get them off the field.

The four dropped INTs makes this look worse. Those kill drives and we look better if we even snag half of what we dropped.

 

[milani]

The run defense did its job at 3.7 YPC. That’s excellent. Collectively, the Giants were willing to play 3 yards and a cloud of dust and GB struggled to get them off the field.

The four dropped INTs makes this look worse. Those kill drives and we look better if we even snag half of what we dropped.

We were not as good behind the LOS. That may be the difference.

 

[OldSchool101]

This looks like a bad choice, but it depends on what the play call is.

If this is straight cover-2, then this isn't bad. If this is Tampa-2, then he should be dropping deeper and staying more in the middle.

It also looks like they're playing some kind of game where the slot (20) is taking the flat rather than the hook zone and the corner (24) is taking the hook? If that's the case, I put more blame on Cooper, because that'd make him the flat defender to that side of the field, mirroring Bullard's (20) responsibility.

At 29s in that clip, Valentine and Nixon are both wide and deep. Bullard is wide and shallow while Cooper is medium and medium. My initial read is that Cooper should be wider and close to the LOS to deal with the running back, similar to how Bullard is dealing with 17.

I'd really need see the All-22 to make a better guess here, as I'm sure Hafley's not going to tell us the specific call he made here.

That’s all fine and dandy. However Quay goes over because there’s either a major mistake by him or those two didn’t communicate a handoff. Quay is either 50% involved or 100%

The CB was held to cover up a sideline lateral throw so he’s no part of it. That leaves 2 players period and Quay was either suppose to cover the Slot or the other Packer didn’t hand off his guy properly and trail the loose TE. That’s the only pair of possibilities and with all due respect you don’t need All 22 or a degree in sports ology to see that

 

[Firethorn1001]

The four dropped INTs makes this look worse. Those kill drives and we look better if we even snag half of what we dropped.

And the 3 missed stops on 4th down. Like the Packers missed on 7 turnovers Sunday.

 

[mradtke66]

That’s all fine and dandy. However Quay goes over because there’s either a major mistake by him or those two didn’t communicate a handoff. Quay is either 50% involved or 100%

I think you some bias against Quay.

Without knowing the play call, we cannot know his responsibilities with 100% certainty. I’m not talking about passing off players entering zones. Which zone was his and which was Coopers?

Drifting deeper to take the TE might not have been his zone. It might have been.

The CB was held to cover up a sideline lateral throw so he’s no part of it. That leaves 2 players period and Quay was either suppose to cover the Slot or the other Packer didn’t hand off his guy properly and trail the loose TE. That’s the only pair of possibilities and with all due respect you don’t need All 22 or a degree in sports ology to see that

I disagree. You’re talking about players before zones. Yes, man enters you zone you cover him within the zone, but it starts with the zone.

I want All22 to make sure what I see from everyone is right. Based on what I see here was a modified cover 2. The safeties were each in deep half. Modified because the wide corners we not in the flat but deeper like the outside hook zones that the OLBs normally take in straight cover 2. Since this looks more or less the same on both sides, I’m inclined to say they did the right thing. Our slot corner took the flat to the defensive right. He got wide and closer to the LOS.

Cooper was the widest short defender. If we assume the play call was balanced per above, he didn’t get wide enough or short enough to deal with the potential swing pass to the running back. Quay then looks like he’s double covering someone when he was actually took the right guy.

It is also possible that the call was for a more Tampa-2 coverage where quay should have drifter deeper.

Without a play call in front of us, we cannot know for certain who messed up.

Regarding the TE that broke free, I’m not surprised. This is one of the vulnerabilities of cover-2. Seam routes and plays over the line backers and short of the safeties. The defense for that is pass rush getting home before that route comes clear, it that didn’t happen.

 

[milani]

I think you some bias against Quay.

Without knowing the play call, we cannot know his responsibilities with 100% certainty. I’m not talking about passing off players entering zones. Which zone was his and which was Coopers?

Drifting deeper to take the TE might not have been his zone. It might have been.

I disagree. You’re talking about players before zones. Yes, man enters you zone you cover him within the zone, but it starts with the zone.

I want All22 to make sure what I see from everyone is right. Based on what I see here was a modified cover 2. The safeties were each in deep half. Modified because the wide corners we not in the flat but deeper like the outside hook zones that the OLBs normally take in straight cover 2. Since this looks more or less the same on both sides, I’m inclined to say they did the right thing. Our slot corner took the flat to the defensive right. He got wide and closer to the LOS.

Cooper was the widest short defender. If we assume the play call was balanced per above, he didn’t get wide enough or short enough to deal with the potential swing pass to the running back. Quay then looks like he’s double covering someone when he was actually took the right guy.

It is also possible that the call was for a more Tampa-2 coverage where quay should have drifter deeper.

Without a play call in front of us, we cannot know for certain who messed up.

Regarding the TE that broke free, I’m not surprised. This is one of the vulnerabilities of cover-2. Seam routes and plays over the line backers and short of the safeties. The defense for that is pass rush getting home before that route comes clear, it that didn’t happen.

Because of our shell defense to prevent the home run ball offenses are going to use their TEs to try and beat us. Detroit was able to hit several times but nothing else. A good QB will be looking for that TE, not just in the flat but in the seam. During the Blake Martinez years opponents thrived on that.

 

[mradtke66]

Because of our shell defense to prevent the home run ball offenses are going to use their TEs to try and beat us. Detroit was able to hit several times but nothing else. A good QB will be looking for that TE, not just in the flat but in the seam. During the Blake Martinez years opponents thrived on that.

TEs are just good players against zones. To really defend them, you have to get a good enough rush to take the routes away.

On this play, if for some reason Quay followed the TE, someone is open. The dig route that Quay and Cooper ended up covering? He had leverage on Cooper. Let’s say that he gets on his horse and is able run with it. Now there is a 10 yard hole in the zone for the running back on the swing/dump off to catch and meet Nixon in the open field with a head of steam. I like Nixon as an open field tackle, but he’s back peddling and him against a running is a bit of a mismatch.

Pass rush is essential to playing zone.

 

[Pugger]

Musgrave was so bad, especially after the "non-catch" fumble that the coaching staff essentially benched him for the second half. I think that he saw two snaps. We can't be done with Musgrave because we need him (or someone), but I'm done with him. Either he can't play or we are completely misusing him. It seems like both equally.

Having Wooden and Wyatt rank that bad tells you all that you need to know about why our pass rush and run defense are suffering.

What a major disappointment Musgrave has turned out to be. I don't recall if some here or elsewhere said Musgrave is a good athlete but a poor football player.

 

[Pugger]

The run defense did its job at 3.7 YPC. That’s excellent. Collectively, the Giants were willing to play 3 yards and a cloud of dust and GB struggled to get them off the field.

The four dropped INTs makes this look worse. Those kill drives and we look better if we even snag half of what we dropped.

How many times did NY go for it on 4th down? I can't recall many teams doing that these days.

 

[El Guapo]

What a major disappointment Musgrave has turned out to be. I don't recall if some here or elsewhere said Musgrave is a good athlete but a poor football player.

Part of the problem is LaFleur as well. He keeps trying to use Musgrave like a typical inline TE. He needs to use him like they did with Jermichael Finley. Run double tight end sets so that you still have a blocker on one side for running plays, and deploy Musgrave on WR routes.