Pass Rush in 2017

[thisisnate]

How do you fans propose they tweak our gameplan or roster at this point to put consistent pressure on quarterbacks in 2017? We completely failed to address this weakness in FA and the draft, and I'm thinking we'll be relying an awful lot on our developing secondary to shoulder more of the load than it should have to in 2017, much like in 2016. Missing out on Barwin is looking even uglier with the draft in the rearview.

 

[Jerellh528]

It just sucks that both clay and Perry are somewhat injury prone, if either of them misses time, yikes

 

[Poppa San]

How do you fans propose they tweak our gameplan or roster at this point to put consistent pressure on quarterbacks in 2017?

Pixie dust and lucky charms? Hope to see this sprite at camp every day.

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Ted's plan is probably continued (hopeful) development of Clark, Price, Lawry. Fackrell, Elliot, Ryan, Martinez with continued or returned health of Clay and Perry. I expect at least 3 of those to disappoint with another 2-3 wiped out by injury. IOW just like every other season.

 

[Dylan Hoppe]

They drafted Biegel. Not that that's a 100% fix but I think some will be surprised at how much he does for our D. He was underrated in the draft due to a foot injury in his last collegiate year. He's actually more polished, I think anyway, than Watt. At least he's played the position for long enough to have a more seamless transition into the NFL. I'm more excited about him than any other young pass rusher on our roster. He should outplay Fackrell and Elliot, hopefully.

 

[AmishMafia]

Ted's plan is probably continued (hopeful) development of Clark, Price, Lawry. Fackrell, Elliot, Ryan, Martinez with continued or returned health of Clay and Perry. I expect at least 3 of those to disappoint with another 2-3 wiped out by injury. IOW just like every other season.

Not to mention if we have a 25% improvement in DB play, and the WRs are covered for even an extra 0.5 sec on average, you will be surprised how that additional time will result in more sacks.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

They drafted Biegel. Not that that's a 100% fix but I think some will be surprised at how much he does for our D. He was underrated in the draft due to a foot injury in his last collegiate year. He's actually more polished, I think anyway, than Watt. At least he's played the position for long enough to have a more seamless transition into the NFL. I'm more excited about him than any other young pass rusher on our roster. He should outplay Fackrell and Elliot, hopefully.

I'm trying to be optimistic about this pick, but we really had a shot at a few good Edge rushers and whiffed. Derek Rivers will be another Patriot stud. Jordan Willis might be great too. I was hoping we'd pick up one of the 4 talented UDFAs, but it doesn't look like that's happening. Phillips and Jones are gone. Fields and Mathis are still unsigned. I'm not too sure who Johnathan Calvin is and I can't find tape on him.

 

[pizzle]

They can't scheme this. This draft is the last straw for me. Anybody that understands football, and is a fan of the Pack/has followed the team for the last few years will understand. This is a FAILURE by football operations to supply the coaches (mainly Dom and Moss) with the tools they need to give us a real legit chance at dominating the league and winning the Super Bowl.

I just joined this forum after a few years of lurking because I am so INCENSED with Thompson and his crap. I want to cuss up a storm!

We run a complex 3-4 zone blitz scheme. THE MOST IMPORTANT positional group when you run this type of defense is Linebacker. Our linebacker core is by far the weakest point in the defense, with the most question marks, even though it is naturally the most emphasized based on the scheme. We cannot as Packers fans keep blaming Capers for our defense being built from the backend up, when it is supposed to be built from the edges and grow like a tree from there.

Letting Peppers go-huge mistake. Not getting Barwin-huge mistake. Not resigning Datone to a 1 year prove it deal-mistake. Not cutting Clay's pay/restructuring and telling him he's moving inside full-time-HUGE MISTAKE. Giving Nick Perry Clay Matthews money-mistake. Thinking Elliot and Fackrell making huge leaps in production is enough to supplant what we have lost at the position-HUGE MISTAKE.

This is ALL Ted's fault. He is the pompous, arrogant, stubborn SOB who would rather draft for 2-4 years ahead to keep the roster salary low instead of loading up to win a chip. He is the senile out-of-touch guy who thinks he is the best scout of defensive backs in the history of mankind, and therefore forgets about the rest of the defense. It's all about HIM and what he wants, not what will help Dom/the team.

He overreacts when a position gets hit hard like many have said previously, instead of looking at the big picture. We didn't need to draft three friggin backs in this draft. WE DID need 3 OLB/DE (EDGE/Elephant End) type players. We don't have any of those guys for subpackage inside rushing now. We don't even have an elephant on the team because to me, Perry is just a bigger, slower traditional 3-4 OLB now, and never was a real elephant end like Peppers and Jones. We didn't need 10 picks. That was Ted trying to act like he's smarter than everyone when he's not. You know who is smart? The Pats, who got 2 edge rushers with just 4 draft picks, or ATL-who added Takk Mckinley (whom we should have traded UP to go get with our bevy of picks in this draft/in the future that we'll have) and Duke Riley to an already INCREDIBLY FAST DEFENSE that handed our *** to us in the NFCCG. It's not about trying to field 11 hybrid DBs to stop an offense, it's about having enough pass rushers to make the QB feel like a punch-drunk boxer-thus crippling the offense.

It is time for Ted to go.

We're screwed. SMH...

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

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[GreenBaySlacker]

Better dline play to collapse the pocket. combined with better coverage to force the qb to hold it longer...

Mathews Perry are making 25 mil. We have to trust them. Elliott fackrell are solid too.

 

[Dantés]

They can't scheme this. This draft is the last straw for me. Anybody that understands football, and is a fan of the Pack/has followed the team for the last few years will understand. This is a FAILURE by football operations to supply the coaches (mainly Dom and Moss) with the tools they need to give us a real legit chance at dominating the league and winning the Super Bowl.

I just joined this forum after a few years of lurking because I am so INCENSED with Thompson and his crap. I want to cuss up a storm!

We run a complex 3-4 zone blitz scheme. THE MOST IMPORTANT positional group when you run this type of defense is Linebacker. Our linebacker core is by far the weakest point in the defense, with the most question marks, even though it is naturally the most emphasized based on the scheme. We cannot as Packers fans keep blaming Capers for our defense being built from the backend up, when it is supposed to be built from the edges and grow like a tree from there.

Letting Peppers go-huge mistake. Not getting Barwin-huge mistake. Not resigning Datone to a 1 year prove it deal-mistake. Not cutting Clay's pay/restructuring and telling him he's moving inside full-time-HUGE MISTAKE. Giving Nick Perry Clay Matthews money-mistake. Thinking Elliot and Fackrell making huge leaps in production is enough to supplant what we have lost at the position-HUGE MISTAKE.

This is ALL Ted's fault. He is the pompous, arrogant, stubborn SOB who would rather draft for 2-4 years ahead to keep the roster salary low instead of loading up to win a chip. He is the senile out-of-touch guy who thinks he is the best scout of defensive backs in the history of mankind, and therefore forgets about the rest of the defense. It's all about HIM and what he wants, not what will help Dom/the team.

He overreacts when a position gets hit hard like many have said previously, instead of looking at the big picture. We didn't need to draft three friggin backs in this draft. WE DID need 3 OLB/DE (EDGE/Elephant End) type players. We don't have any of those guys for subpackage inside rushing now. We don't even have an elephant on the team because to me, Perry is just a bigger, slower traditional 3-4 OLB now, and never was a real elephant end like Peppers and Jones. We didn't need 10 picks. That was Ted trying to act like he's smarter than everyone when he's not. You know who is smart? The Pats, who got 2 edge rushers with just 4 draft picks, or ATL-who added Takk Mckinley (whom we should have traded UP to go get with our bevy of picks in this draft/in the future that we'll have) and Duke Riley to an already INCREDIBLY FAST DEFENSE that handed our *** to us in the NFCCG. It's not about trying to field 11 hybrid DBs to stop an offense, it's about having enough pass rushers to make the QB feel like a punch-drunk boxer-thus crippling the offense.

It is time for Ted to go.

We're screwed. SMH...

I suggest you go back to lurking.

 

[swhitset]

They can't scheme this. This draft is the last straw for me. Anybody that understands football, and is a fan of the Pack/has followed the team for the last few years will understand. This is a FAILURE by football operations to supply the coaches (mainly Dom and Moss) with the tools they need to give us a real legit chance at dominating the league and winning the Super Bowl.

I just joined this forum after a few years of lurking because I am so INCENSED with Thompson and his crap. I want to cuss up a storm!

We run a complex 3-4 zone blitz scheme. THE MOST IMPORTANT positional group when you run this type of defense is Linebacker. Our linebacker core is by far the weakest point in the defense, with the most question marks, even though it is naturally the most emphasized based on the scheme. We cannot as Packers fans keep blaming Capers for our defense being built from the backend up, when it is supposed to be built from the edges and grow like a tree from there.

Letting Peppers go-huge mistake. Not getting Barwin-huge mistake. Not resigning Datone to a 1 year prove it deal-mistake. Not cutting Clay's pay/restructuring and telling him he's moving inside full-time-HUGE MISTAKE. Giving Nick Perry Clay Matthews money-mistake. Thinking Elliot and Fackrell making huge leaps in production is enough to supplant what we have lost at the position-HUGE MISTAKE.

This is ALL Ted's fault. He is the pompous, arrogant, stubborn SOB who would rather draft for 2-4 years ahead to keep the roster salary low instead of loading up to win a chip. He is the senile out-of-touch guy who thinks he is the best scout of defensive backs in the history of mankind, and therefore forgets about the rest of the defense. It's all about HIM and what he wants, not what will help Dom/the team.

He overreacts when a position gets hit hard like many have said previously, instead of looking at the big picture. We didn't need to draft three friggin backs in this draft. WE DID need 3 OLB/DE (EDGE/Elephant End) type players. We don't have any of those guys for subpackage inside rushing now. We don't even have an elephant on the team because to me, Perry is just a bigger, slower traditional 3-4 OLB now, and never was a real elephant end like Peppers and Jones. We didn't need 10 picks. That was Ted trying to act like he's smarter than everyone when he's not. You know who is smart? The Pats, who got 2 edge rushers with just 4 draft picks, or ATL-who added Takk Mckinley (whom we should have traded UP to go get with our bevy of picks in this draft/in the future that we'll have) and Duke Riley to an already INCREDIBLY FAST DEFENSE that handed our *** to us in the NFCCG. It's not about trying to field 11 hybrid DBs to stop an offense, it's about having enough pass rushers to make the QB feel like a punch-drunk boxer-thus crippling the offense.

It is time for Ted to go.

We're screwed. SMH...

I couldn't decide between a disagree and a funny for this reactionary rant.... settled on the disagree.

 

[RRyder]

Good lord. Pre draft everybody and their mother had CB as the biggest need on this team with people also acknowledging that we could use a few more guys to rotate on the edges to rush the passer. Draft ends and it's the end of the world because people flip the narrative and apparently we were now set at CB, didn't need them and it's apparently a gigantic mistake not to draft nothing but pass rushers high.

If we would've put off CBs and drafted OLBs back to back these same people would still be complaining we didn't draft CB help high and then complain when they get called out for never being happy and simply finding a reason to complain.

We got a damn good 6'3" CB that runs a 4.4 40, a Saftey with good size and 4.4 speed (who I view as more as a luxury but still one loaded with potential), a penetraiting DE (yes pass rush comes from more places then OLB) and a OLB who quite honestly wasn't that far off from the guy many people would've been happy with in round one.

If your going to ***** and complain about the needs of this team not being addressed this is NOT the draft to do it.

 

[swhitset]

I actually just read that rant out loud to my wife using all the vocal inflection and fist pounding I could muster.... She was laughing so hard I was afraid she was going to need oxygen... lmao.

 

[brandon2348]

Good lord. Pre draft everybody and their mother had CB as the biggest need on this team with people also acknowledging that we could use a few more guys to rotate on the edges to rush the passer. Draft ends and it's the end of the world because people flip the narrative and apparently we were now set at CB, didn't need them and it's apparently a gigantic mistake not to draft nothing but pass rushers high.

If we would've put off CBs and drafted OLBs back to back these same people would still be complaining we didn't draft CB help high and then complain when they get called out for never being happy and simply finding a reason to complain.

We got a damn good 6'3" CB that runs a 4.4 40, a Saftey with good size and 4.4 speed (who I view as more as a luxury but still one loaded with potential), a penetraiting DE (yes pass rush comes from more places then OLB) and a OLB who quite honestly wasn't that far off from the guy many people would've been happy with in round one.

If your going to ***** and complain about the needs of this team not being addressed this is NOT the draft to do it.

I tend to agree here. Even though I wanted them to get Mixon I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. I think TT went a little RB crazy if anything but we're we really gonna get an edge rusher that late that was even gonna make the team?

I'm not so sure.

 

[Dantés]

I don't understand why people are acting like they didn't address the pass rush.

They drafted a 3 technique to spell Daniels and one of the best athletes at edge.

Biegel played much of 2016 with a broken foot. He was very good in '15 and great down the stretch of this last season as his foot healed.

 

[RRyder]

He could of address


I tend to agree here. Even though I wanted them to get Mixon I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. I think TT went a little RB crazy if anything but we're we really gonna get an edge rusher that late that was even gonna make the team?

I'm not so sure.

It's definitely ok to think they should've gone a different route here and there, I would've went Williams over Jones at the end of the 2nd for example, but I'm just confused how some can completely lambaste this draft for not trying to fill our needs.

I mean I've seen multiple times now how OLB was BY FAR our biggest need. When did that happen? Yeah we all knew we could use another pass rusher or two, I mean pretty much every team can, but it was pretty obvious CB was on top of the "need" pile and the narrative only got flipped after we waited to address the OLB spot in round 4 with a pretty good player in his own right.

Maybe none of these guys turns into a good/great player. Maybe all of them do. But in terms of matching value to needs it's hard to complain about most of the selections especially the high ones

 

[Dantés]

It's definitely ok to think they should've gone a different route here and there, I would've went Williams over Jones at the end of the 2nd for example, but I'm just confused how some can completely lambaste this draft for not trying to fill our needs.

I mean I've seen multiple times now how OLB was BY FAR our biggest need. When did that happen? Yeah we all knew we could use another pass rusher or two, I mean pretty much every team can, but it was pretty obvious CB was on top of the "need" pile and the narrative only got flipped after we waited to address the OLB spot in round 4 with a pretty good player in his own right.

Maybe none of these guys turns into a good/great player. Maybe all of them do. But in terms of matching value to needs it's hard to complain about most of the selections especially the high ones

There are always self obsessed, self proclaimed scouts who come out of the woodwork to trash the team for not taking the mock they had perfected tirelessly in their mom's basement over the last 7 months. They don't know enough to know what they don't know. Every team, every year.

 

[pizzle]

Making jokes-cute. Trying to insult my football knowledge when I played the game is laughable, but whatever. The reality is the NFCCG. We were a beat up team that fought tooth and nail to get there, yes. But that game also highlighted weaknesses on defense beyond the fact that the secondary with Hyde was slow, especially with Randall and Q being hurt. Our ILBs cannot cover agile RBs/TEs which is why Morgan is being put in the box now on passing downs late, and even with Julius and Datone we were having trouble getting 3 and outs because the pass rush simply wasn't getting home quick enough and often enough. The Falcons pass rush did, which is why they should be the SB Champs now except for a classic meltdown. While acquiring speed in the secondary with this draft is good, this draft class was loaded with EDGE rushers and we didn't get one of the best-we got a middling piece in the Wisconsin kid. We needed at least 2 Takkarist McKinley/Taco Charlton/Jordan Willis/Tyus Bowser/Daeshon Hall/Carl Lawson/Carroll Phillips/Dawuane Smoot type EDGE rushers, and we didn't get one. We didn't even get the OLB from Eastern Washington, or the ILB from KSU that has some speed to at least cover and replace Joe Thomas eventually in dime, smh... If Vince Biegel ends up the second coming of top-level young Clay Matthews then I will be very happy and eat my words. I don't see that happening, and if other teams did, he prolly would have been drafted earlier. Adams the DT from Auburn is not a lock to see a bunch of playing time this year IMO, unless a bunch of things like injury, Guion being cut before the end of training camp, and him just flat out being a wunderkind out of the gate happen. So to me, we did not address pass rush enough for there not to be MAJOR concerns about it coming into the new season.

 

[pizzle]

I suggest you go back to lurking.

Thanks for the welcome, chump.

 

[ChicagoPackerfan]

I think the pass rush is improved. I think our line will create adequate pressure. I'm very excited about our secondary and if Clark blossoms we could have a line that could absolutely wreak havoc up front and open up holes for Matthews and Perry to make plays. The beautiful thing about football is that it's truly the ultimate team sport. We were so close last year, and if you look at our roster today it's difficult to say that we haven't made some drastic improvements in some key positions of weakness.

 

[bigbubbatd]

I don't think the pass rush is elite but if I guys are healthy and Clay can rebound at all i think we are alight. Perry and clay can get after the qb. Daniels can. Clark is getting better. Farrell and Biegel are wild cards. If they can than we are in good shape

Hopefully we can cover better so that would help the pass rush too

 

[pizzle]

I can't believe the amount of salt I got on my initial post to this forum. Wow...

 

[pizzle]

Good lord. Pre draft everybody and their mother had CB as the biggest need on this team with people also acknowledging that we could use a few more guys to rotate on the edges to rush the passer. Draft ends and it's the end of the world because people flip the narrative and apparently we were now set at CB, didn't need them and it's apparently a gigantic mistake not to draft nothing but pass rushers high.

If we would've put off CBs and drafted OLBs back to back these same people would still be complaining we didn't draft CB help high and then complain when they get called out for never being happy and simply finding a reason to complain.

We got a damn good 6'3" CB that runs a 4.4 40, a Saftey with good size and 4.4 speed (who I view as more as a luxury but still one loaded with potential), a penetraiting DE (yes pass rush comes from more places then OLB) and a OLB who quite honestly wasn't that far off from the guy many people would've been happy with in round one.

If your going to ***** and complain about the needs of this team not being addressed this is NOT the draft to do it.

This is the draft to do it.

1) What "people" are you talking about bud? I just joined the forum

2) Which positional group coming into the draft was more stocked/had a better chance of performing at a high level without being heavily addressed-LB or secondary? Keep in mind, you admitted getting Josh Jones at 61 was a luxury pick

3) Yes-pass rush does come from other positions in a defense besides OLB. And in a traditional 3-4, DE is one of the main places you want to get your pass rushing from. But in case you didn't notice, we're not running a "typical" 34, bud. Dom Capers, one of the fathers of the 3-4 zone blitz scheme, is our defensive daddy. To combat our shortcomings in personnel over the years (Raji being hurt/retiring, Clay being up and down, etc) and accentuate what we have emphasized from a front office acquisition standpoint (i.e. Ted bringing in quality DBs if nothing else) he has morphed the 3-4 into a 2-4-5, with the DL having to adopt a two-gap approach often. Additionally, look at Adams game film. Add that all together, and you'd see that our 3rd rounder isn't necessarily supposed to be a "traditional 3-4 defensive end" that will get a gang of sacks, like a J.J. Watt, sport.

 

[pizzle]

I think that not all, but some, of the people that tried to haze me with their lame attempts at being arbitrary in responses to my initial post on this forum/answer to the question posed by the thread starter should read this article and educate themselves on the Packers defense:

http://lombardiave.com/2016/05/11/packers-draft-defenders-3-4-experience/

 

[Dantés]

I can't believe the amount of salt I got on my initial post to this forum. Wow...

Well did you read it??