Pass Interference rule

[PFanCan]

One reason that I stopped watching the NBA was the sad fact that the referees can too often affect the outcome of the game. Back in the day, I remember watching Laimbeer's Pistons muscle their way to back-to-back Championships. However, when the refs called the game tight (which they didn't do much those two seasons), the Pistons usually lost. When they let the players push, shove and hold, the Pistons generally won.

In short, I don't like it when referees become more important than the players. Basketball, IMO, has gotten that way.

Ok, on to the NFL.

There are two rules that I really don't like- mainly as they are so open to the whimsy of the refs.

The holding rule: If the zebras called every hold, the game would slow to a crawl. So, they don't. They try to only call the most obvious holds, but the grey line between what is "obvious" and what is not is fuzzy. I think that this rule needs to be fixed. But, it's not as bad as...

The defensive pass interference rule (and it's cousin, offensive pass interference): To me, this rule, though needed in some form, is too powerful to be left up to the refs imagination of when to call and when to not call.

It seems that every game has a play or two (or more) where DPI or OPI calls/non-calls are questionable.

• We read about how Revis didn't like the Jordy push on his TD catch and run.
• We commented ourselves (well, I did) about the push from LeFell on his TD catch.
• There was the contentious 3rd down call when the Patriots receiver ran into Burnett. Or was it truly DPI?
• Check out this GIF image of the hit put on Jordy during the play that Rodgers had 12 seconds in the pocket. Note that the hit occurs directly in front of the back judge, yet no call?

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IDK, just a rant and I have no ideas of how to improve. I know that I wish these two rules, especially PI, were somehow different. Take the zebras out of the game, NFL... Somehow.

 

[El Guapo]

I don't think that you can complain about the Jordy hit, sentences after arguing that the referees should be less like the NBA (i.e. the should call less penalties).

There is no way to "fix" the issue. The league either stiffens or loosens the rules but will likely always have humans throwing the flags. It's open to interpretation and what the referee sees vs what the fans see. As a former official myself, I learned two things:

1) Most fans have a very low understanding of the rules - but enough to be abusive

2) Referees have a lot to see at full speed. You miss things you shouldn't and see things that other's miss. Nothing will be perfect, even if you have 22 referees on the field watching each player.


In general I agree with your overall premise though. I liked the 2002 or 2003 playoff games when the Colts and Patriots played rough. I like receivers having to fight hard for catches. In fact, I think that it makes the game safer when you have players on top of one another rather than playing off and then coming in hard for the hit. I don't like 38 to 45 games as much as I like to see hard-fought battles that end in 17-14 victories. Full disclaimer - I don't do fantasy football so I'm not biased towards scoring

 

[Deleted member 6794]

One reason that I stopped watching the NBA was the sad fact that the referees can too often affect the outcome of the game. Back in the day, I remember watching Laimbeer's Pistons muscle their way to back-to-back Championships. However, when the refs called the game tight (which they didn't do much those two seasons), the Pistons usually lost. When they let the players push, shove and hold, the Pistons generally won.

In short, I don't like it when referees become more important than the players. Basketball, IMO, has gotten that way.

Ok, on to the NFL.

There are two rules that I really don't like- mainly as they are so open to the whimsy of the refs.

The holding rule: If the zebras called every hold, the game would slow to a crawl. So, they don't. They try to only call the most obvious holds, but the grey line between what is "obvious" and what is not is fuzzy. I think that this rule needs to be fixed. But, it's not as bad as...

The defensive pass interference rule (and it's cousin, offensive pass interference): To me, this rule, though needed in some form, is too powerful to be left up to the refs imagination of when to call and when to not call.

It seems that every game has a play or two (or more) where DPI or OPI calls/non-calls are questionable.

• We read about how Revis didn't like the Jordy push on his TD catch and run.
• We commented ourselves (well, I did) about the push from LeFell on his TD catch.
• There was the contentious 3rd down call when the Patriots receiver ran into Burnett. Or was it truly DPI?
• Check out this GIF image of the hit put on Jordy during the play that Rodgers had 12 seconds in the pocket. Note that the hit occurs directly in front of the back judge, yet no call?

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

IDK, just a rant and I have no ideas of how to improve. I know that I wish these two rules, especially PI, were somehow different. Take the zebras out of the game, NFL... Somehow.

I think the NFL has to improve the PI calls but I don´t know how to do it either. Just as a side note, the play with Jordy (of which you posted the GIF) should have resulted in an illegal contact penalty but not a PI one though as Rodgers was still holding the ball at the moment.

 

[PFanCan]

I don't think that you can complain about the Jordy hit...

I wasn't complaining about the Jordy hit-- just pointing out that the penalty calls are too unreliable and have a huge impact on the game. I agree about your comment in point #2-- again not complaining. I am actually impressed that the refs can somehow keep track of as many things as they do-- all in real time.

I am a huge fan of 17-14 slug fests. I miss the good old days of smash mouth football and when the RB/FB was the most important player on the team.

 

[MichiganSportsTalk]

I think what needs to change is the number of defensive penalties that result in an automatic first down.

I don't remember which game it was, but Detroit was sitting at 3rd and like 20, they threw a 5 or 6 yard screen that went nowhere, but there was defensive holding. Automatic first down. Ridiculous. Should just be yards and repeat the down. Defenses have their hands tied enough without offenses getting such big breaks every game.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Offensive holding on the line is a term of art not to be taken literally. The "rules" are fairly consistently implemented and understood. If the blocker gets his hands inside the pads, grabs some jersey and controls his man, that's OK. If the defender starts to move laterally in pursuit, then you better release and chase.

Most of the bad holding calls I see are where the the O-Lineman releases while the defender starts to move laterally knowing the play is past him and then throws up his hands and flops to give the appearance of being pulled back from his pursuit. That's tough to differentiate from a legit hold. It took the NBA over a decade to begin to figure out flopping. It will probably require more frequent occurrences before the NFL tries to address it.

The other holding calls I'm not too keen on are where the O-Lineman gets one arm outside the pad with a closed fist, impeding but not tackling. It just looks like a legit football technique to me, but again it's a term of art...everybody knows it might draw a call.

I think I'd need a tighter shot on that Nelson video to pass judgement. The first defender has position, and it's not entirely clear that the pushing isn't mutual...it's hard to see what Nelson is doing with his left hand. Then Nelson spins into the second defender who also has position. I think if the defender has a receiver running into him he should have the right to push back. Otherwise, you're making the defender look like a basketball player setting a pick...better to allow him push back than force him to flop.

 

[adambr2]

I'd like to see more consistency for sure. What gives fans a very limited understanding of PI in part is the fact that it's called so inconsistently on the field.

On one play you'll see a defender place a hand on the receiver's shoulder at the 5 yard mark and flags go flying. On another you'll see a receiver get mugged with the ball in the air and no call.

I agree with removing the automatic first downs for defensive penalties. I prefer the NCAA system of 10 yards for defensive holding and no automatic first down. (I would also award 10 yards for illegal contact and use the college system of a 15 yard PI penalty unless occurring in the end zone.).

No automatic first downs except for personal fouls and PI.

 

[PFanCan]

I'd like to see more consistency for sure. What gives fans a very limited understanding of PI in part is the fact that it's called so inconsistently on the field.

On one play you'll see a defender place a hand on the receiver's shoulder at the 5 yard mark and flags go flying. On another you'll see a receiver get mugged with the ball in the air and no call.

I agree with removing the automatic first downs for defensive penalties. I prefer the NCAA system of 10 yards for defensive holding and no automatic first down. (I would also award 10 yards for illegal contact and use the college system of a 15 yard PI penalty unless occurring in the end zone.).

No automatic first downs except for personal fouls and PI.

I like the "no auto first down" concept.

Though this would rely again on the refs interpretation, but there should be a differentiation between a DPI that prevented a likely TD and one that did not.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I would also use the college system of a 15 yard PI penalty unless occurring in the end zone.

I agree with most of what you said but I'm fine with the way PI is penalized. Otherwise a defender being beat on a long throw would more often than not take an intentional PI call and only lose 15 yards because of it.

 

[Carl]

I'm fine with the rules, just not with the inconsistent enforcement.

Although I'm very glad the NFL is not enforcing the penalties like they were in the preseason, consistency would be great. Even if it's called differently game to game, but the same within a game that would be better than now. All guys on a single officiating crews should all call them the same.

My suggestion to make it better is to only call it when the official thinks the penalty was severe and obvious.

I do understand the game is fast and some calls will be missed, but the calls I do not understand are the ones that are blatantly one way or another and an official right next to the action misses the call. Revis hitting Nelson above is a good example. Yes, Nelson could have made contact also on the play too, but that was obvious illegal contact by Revis right in front of the official.

This isn't PI or illegal contact, but another example is Tramon's INT vs. Dallas last year. Romo was pissed right away because he knew it. All of the Dallas players and coaches on the sideline on the video knew it based on their reactions. The only guy who didn't know was the official right next to the play.

 

[adambr2]

I agree with most of what you said but I'm fine with the way PI is penalized. Otherwise a defender being beat on a long throw would more often than not take an intentional PI call and only lose 15 yards because of it.

I don't think that happens very often in college. If you're beat, most of the time you're not going to catch up in time enough to do that. If you do, you're probably going to be able to make a play on the ball anyway.

I do get what you're saying, I just hate seeing a ticky tack PI call on a 40 yard bomb on a pass that probably wouldn't have been caught anyway.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I do get what you're saying, I just hate seeing a ticky tack PI call on a 40 yard bomb on a pass that probably wouldn't have been caught anyway.

I agree with that, I would like the refs to throw PI flags only when it's blatantly obvious the receiver was fouled and could have caught the ball.

 

[GoPGo]

(I would also award 10 yards for illegal contact and use the college system of a 15 yard PI penalty unless occurring in the end zone.)

I hate the college PI rule. If I have my man beat 50 yards downfield and he grabs my arm and pulls it down while I'm trying to make the catch, why shouldn't the ball be spotted where I most likely would have caught it?

 

[adambr2]

I hate the college PI rule. If I have my man beat 50 yards downfield and he grabs my arm and pulls it down while I'm trying to make the catch, why shouldn't the ball be spotted where I most likely would have caught it?

How often do you actually see that?

Much more often it seems like we see a long downfield pass and the receiver earning a cheap call on a pass where a defender just makes a play on the ball.

Aren't rules already tilted towards the offense enough as it is?

 

[GoPGo]

How often do you actually see that?

I don't know about you, but I see guys being interfered with way downfield almost every game.

Much more often it seems like we see a long downfield pass and the receiver earning a cheap call on a pass where a defender just makes a play on the ball.

That's an officiating problem, not a rule problem.

Aren't rules already tilted towards the offense enough as it is?

I'm all in favor of going back to the 1990 rulebook.

 

[El Guapo]

How often do you actually see that?

I saw it last Saturday in the Badgers/Gophers game. Stave heaved one to the goal line from beyond mid-field and the Gopher defensive back drag down the WR. It saved a touchdown.