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Packers talent vs. Vikings talent - Can we win the North?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by tromadz, Sep 27, 2006.

  1. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    Havel:

    Chris Havel column: Packers' talent matches Vikings'

    By Chris Havel

    To say the Green Bay Packers are a young team is getting old. To say they are rebuilding is nothing more than a convenient excuse for failure.

    It is time to quit perpetuating the myth.

    The truth is, the Packers' frontline players have enough experience to compete, and the 53-man roster has enough talent to win more than it loses.

    Do the Packers have the weapons to challenge the Chicago Bears in the NFC North? Nope. That was evident in their 26-0 loss in the opener. Do they have the talent to make the Minnesota Vikings sweat it out in the race for second place? You bet.

    Starter for starter, the Packers stack up favorably with the Vikings. In some ways, they have more talent based upon past performance. If the Packers continue to stay healthy, and inexperienced backups aren't thrust into starting roles, they should be right there with the Vikings come December.

    If the Packers become also-rans, it won't be because they are young or rebuilding. It will be due to one or all of the following:

    # Coach Mike McCarthy, offensive coordinator Jeff Jagodzinski, defensive coordinator Bob Sanders and special teams coach Mike Stock do a poor job.

    # The veterans fail to consistently perform up to their potential.

    # A slew of injuries at key positions, particularly quarterback, receiver and the offensive line, reduces the offense to a shambles.

    That is true of most NFL teams, and the Packers are no different. To say General Manager Ted Thompson didn't provide McCarthy, Sanders or Stock with the horses to run a competitive race is naïve.

    Consider the Packers' and Vikings' depth charts. Which quarterback (Brett Favre or Brad Johnson?), tight end (Bubba Franks or Jim Kleinsasser?) or receiving tandem (Donald Driver and Greg Jennings or Travis Taylor and Troy Williamson?) would a majority of NFL teams prefer?

    True, the Vikings' offensive line, interior defensive line and safeties are more talented, and running back Chester Taylor gets the nod over Ahman Green at this stage of their careers. But the Packers' defensive ends rate a slight edge, and their linebackers are physically superior. The Vikings' Fred Smoot and Antoine Winfield have outperformed Al Harris and Charles Woodson, but what cornerback tandem hasn't ? Harris and Woodson are too talented, and they should be too embarrassed, to let that continue.

    The Vikings' Tony Richardson is a powerful blocking fullback, but William Henderson is the more effective receiver.

    Ex-Packers kicker Ryan Longwell is money in the clutch, but Dave Rayner missed only a 53-yarder and has the stronger leg on kickoffs. The punters are a draw, and Green Bay's return game is more explosive with Koren Robinson and Woodson.

    The Vikings' Kevin Williams is a Pro Bowl defensive tackle that can dominate a game, and their offensive line is capable of punishing the best defensive front sevens. Those are significant advantages for the Vikings, but the overall disparity between the teams — if one exists — is minimal.

    If the Packers finish a distant third to the Vikings, or worse, dead last in the NFC North, the culprits will be ineffective coaching, substandard play by key veterans and-or a spate of injuries.

    The perception of the Packers is that of a young, rebuilding team.

    That isn't the reality.

    -------------------------------------
    I liked this article. I like the way he says using the terms "rebuilding" and whatnot is excuse making, and our coaches\GM dont use any excuses. I like that they take responsibility.

    I agree with his keys to the season (coaches, veteran play, injuries).

    -If McCarthy proves he shouldn't be a head coach, then the season is lost(1-2, not bad, improvement, which is promising). Sanders looks to be a good defensive coach IMO. I like the way we work the run, and I like the way our dline and LBs player. however, if our pass D\DBs dont improve, that could be a costly decision to make him DC, although he could improve in this area. We will see what our coaches have in the next few weeks as far as gameplanning, and adapting. I like MMs adapting, but not Sanders, although his pass D was clutch at the end of the week 3 victory. it was key.

    -veteran play is important, and I think this is where we are getting beat up on. Woodson is sucking, Ahman is fumbling, Clifton is declining bigtime. The 'veteran play' aspect worries me.

    -Injures, so far we haven't been hit too hard there. The injury bug got us last year, hopefully we stay mostly healthy this year.
     
  2. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    when I read this article in the paper it wasn't containing bold phrases ... why alter it? rookie!!


    This is a good article though. I wish you all heard Havel's rant a few days ago on a caller who said the Packers are too young to win. It was dead on right and made me think differently on some things.
     
  3. Yared-Yam

    Yared-Yam Cheesehead

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    Re: Packers talent vs. Vikings talent - Can we win the North

    Why do I always agree with Havel.

    I think he's my favorite journalist(Wisconsin related).
     
  4. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    Re: Packers talent vs. Vikings talent - Can we win the North

    I...bolded important sentences. I get that right when I post articles\links!
     
  5. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Re: Packers talent vs. Vikings talent - Can we win the North

    lmao you have right when posting copyright articles silly

    IF it was meant to be bold, it would have been done so by the ORIGINAL author ;)

    anyhooters though... good article, bad representation :p
     
  6. GakkofNorway

    GakkofNorway Cheesehead

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  7. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Re: Packers talent vs. Vikings talent - Can we win the North


    Because you can't think for yourself? Just kidding!! I'm in the same boat with ya. I typically agree with Havel on most of his subjects. He was a homer for McCarthy up until two weeks ago. He gives everyone a chance to prove themselves and if they start missing oppurtunities he blasts them for it.
     
  8. GakkofNorway

    GakkofNorway Cheesehead

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    again...... Havel is ridiculous, like most other sportswriters
     
  9. HatestheEagles084

    HatestheEagles084 Cheesehead

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    can we reach .500
     
  10. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    Re: Packers talent vs. Vikings talent - Can we win the North

    go **** yourself, zero :D

    you change colors and change articles too. the words stay the same. thats what matters. and if theres doubt, thats why i link to the original site! go pack!
     
  11. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Re: Packers talent vs. Vikings talent - Can we win the North

    Hates, I think so. I think our schedule really favors us. I don't think we can push the Bears for the title, but I am confident we will get second. I hope we are shooting for first and I'm positive we are.










    lol no i dont and in reference to the first comment, everyday baby!!! hah
     
  12. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    When you look at the trenches though you get the difference and because of that Minnesota is the better overall team.
     
  13. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Re: Packers talent vs. Vikings talent - Can we win the North

    No. Havel said otherwise. !!
     
  14. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Re: Packers talent vs. Vikings talent - Can we win the North

    Havel wears Green & Gold glasses a lot though. He was the most optimistic reporter about this season and now he has to defend why he was optimistic about this year. What makes a rookie a rookie is inconsistency. Greg Jennings looked like a rookie against Chicago. AJ Hawk hasn’t so far but I assume he’ll have one of those games. Until you see consistent play week in week out of Packers, your always going to be categorized as a young team. Take Favre out and we do rate to the youngest team in football I believe. So Favre and Henderson really raise the average age on this team.
     
  15. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Re: Packers talent vs. Vikings talent - Can we win the North

    We're young as some positions, not as a team. We have a lot of starters who are in their third or more season. QB, RB, FB, TE, WR, C, LT, RT are all in their third season or later for starters. RG, LG and WR are Rookies.
     
  16. HatestheEagles084

    HatestheEagles084 Cheesehead

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    Re: Packers talent vs. Vikings talent - Can we win the North

    Who exactly is our fullback? and Bubba Franks drops a lot of passes, and Chad Clifton is penalized quite frequently
     
  17. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Re: Packers talent vs. Vikings talent - Can we win the North

    Sir William Henderson is our FB.

    Franks dropping passes and Clifton getting penalized quite a bit doesn't mean they are young. It means they are playing like rookies and need to step it up.
     
  18. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    yeah when Colledge\Moll outplay Clifton, I get worried.

    I think my expectations for Clifton might have been too high.
     
  19. packedhouse01

    packedhouse01 Cheesehead

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    This is one of those rare occasions where I disagree with Havel. He can't be serious about our talent matching up. Our front line players are by and large much weaker than those in the division, especially the Bears and Vikings. Our offensive line is incredibly weak, but hopefully will get better. We have one full back on the roster and he's seriously over the hill. We have one serious running back who can't hold on to the ball. We have Donald Driver and Brett Favre who are legit. We have a corps of under achieving tight ends. On defense our linebacker have the potential to be awesome. Our defensive backs and safeties can't cover anyone and continue to miss assignments on a regular basis. The Defensive line isn't very good either. We don't have a bonafide start defensive tackle and our inside players are adequate at best. Special teams are a joke. Robinson makes them better, but you still have to have people who can block. As for the defensive side of the special teams, they miss too many tackles, and don't stay in their lanes. School is still out on both Rayner and Ryan, but so far they're looking good. Now this assesment is realistic, Havel's is looking to set up the coaching staff for failure.
     
  20. spardo62

    spardo62 Cheesehead

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    Re: Packers talent vs. Vikings talent - Can we win the North

    Games are won and lost by the team that can dominate the line of scrimmage. I hate to say it, but the Vikes are clearly better on both sides of the ball. That in and of itself makes them the superior team.
     
  21. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Re: Packers talent vs. Vikings talent - Can we win the North

    Overall depth we're young at and I still consider guys like Poppinga, Manuel, and Collins young inexperience players.

    Add those 3 too the 4 rookies we have starting and I'd like to find a team other than Green Bay who starts that many young players that are expected to contend.
     
  22. Lare

    Lare Cheesehead

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    Re: Packers talent vs. Vikings talent - Can we win the North

    I realize that writers like Havel have to come up with things to write about every day, but in cases like this I just think they too often fall into the trap of looking for reasons to justify success or failure. In reality, there is no secret or perfect model for success in the NFL. The bottom line is that teams that execute an affective game plan and limit mistakes will win. Those that don't, won't.

    And whatever happens this season for the Packers, you can be sure that writers like Havel are going to be there telling us exactly why we won or lost. Even if it totally contradicts everything he wrote in this article.
     
  23. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Re: Packers talent vs. Vikings talent - Can we win the North

    Depth, yes. Not entire team. We have a LOT of veterans on this team, more than a team that could accurately be labeled as 'young'. It jus so happens that some of our veterans are not as talented as our rookies are proclaimed to be and get more spotlight then the veterans, alteast until they screw up.
     
  24. 4thand26

    4thand26 Cheesehead

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    Re: Packers talent vs. Vikings talent - Can we win the North

    I agree. THe vikes are way better on the OLine, and I would say that their DLine is also a little better. True, I would definately take Favre-Driver-Jennings over Minn players, but until Brad Johnson gets hurt, he is a very good QB to have for that team.
     
  25. Cdnfavrefan

    Cdnfavrefan Cheesehead

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    Watching the Vikes I think they got one of the best defensive backfields in the league in Smoot, Sharper, Smith and Winfield who I feel is one of the most underated corners. That together with thier D-line pressure makes it tough to throw on them
     

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