Packers Punting

[El Guapo]

Tim Masthay had a terrible season last year, shanking punts all over the field and generally not helping the team. He ranked 25th in gross yards but 13th in net at 41.7 yards - an all time Packer record mind you. You may think that his net was due to the directional punting we hear that Slocum and now Zook have Masthay do. However, the stats seem to paint a different picture. We were 30th for punts inside the 20 and tied for 31st for fair catches. This means that we didn't pin the other team inside the 20 very often and didn't provide a ton of hang time. With the Packers being first in punt coverage yardage at 4.1 yards per return, it means that our coverage unit was outstanding despite very poor punting.

All of this is to say, do you see Thompson merely bringing in camp competition or do you think there is someone out there worthy of a 6th or 7th round pick? One way or another, we certainly do not want another Brett Conway situation.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Tim Masthay had a terrible season last year, shanking punts all over the field and generally not helping the team. He ranked 25th in gross yards but 13th in net at 41.7 yards - an all time Packer record mind you. You may think that his net was due to the directional punting we hear that Slocum and now Zook have Masthay do. However, the stats seem to paint a different picture. We were 30th for punts inside the 20 and tied for 31st for fair catches. This means that we didn't pin the other team inside the 20 very often and didn't provide a ton of hang time. With the Packers being first in punt coverage yardage at 4.1 yards per return, it means that our coverage unit was outstanding despite very poor punting.

All of this is to say, do you see Thompson merely bringing in camp competition or do you think there is someone out there worthy of a 6th or 7th round pick? One way or another, we certainly do not want another Brett Conway situation.

I would like Thompson to only spend a draft pick on the position if the Packers decide to release Masthay because of his poor performance last season. Tom Hackett out of Utah will most likely be drafted in the fourth or fifth round (too early to select him), leaving Drew Kaser and Riley Dixon as late round options.

If the team wants to bring in competition for Masthay I would like them to go with an undrafted free agent though.

 

[Mondio]

I think another punter needs to be brought in to win this job. I don't care what his net was, it seemed he shanked more than 1 or 2 at very bad times in a game, those times we needed a boomer, he'd shank it. And as you pointed out, on the flip side, on a shorter field when all we needed was a 35 or so yarder to pin them inside the 20, maybe even the 10, he didn't do that very well either.

 

[Vrill]

I wouldn't be mad if we drafted a punter in the 7th round.

 

[C-Lee]

Masthay is trash, let's get someone new.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

I wouldn't be mad if we drafted a punter in the 7th round.

Preferably one who has experience punting in cold weather.

Punter rankings: http://www.draftcountdown.com/nfl-draft-ranking/punter-rankings/

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I just don't want to hear the excuses: "We really like the way Tim does what we ask" or "Mason is really comfortable with Tim's holding and we don't want to mess up their chemistry". Those IMO were the two lamest excuses for hanging on to a punter who has been terrible the past few years.

Although Masthay is only the 20th highest paid Punter in the league, jettisoning him now would save the Packers about $700K and most likely, help to improve the punting game.

My vote would be to cut Masthay now (he had his chances) and use a 7th round pick on whoever is the top cold weather punter on the board. If you wait until the UDFA period, you are now competing with potentially 31 other teams for a guy you could have had with what may end up being a throw away pick anyway. Bring in 1-2 more guys and may the best man win the job.

 

[rodell330]

Stop signing gingers and we should be fine.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

My vote would be to cut Masthay now (he had his chances) and use a 7th round pick on whoever is the top cold weather punter on the board. If you wait until the UDFA period, you are now competing with potentially 31 other teams for a guy you could have had with what may end up being a throw away pick anyway. Bring in 1-2 more guys and may the best man win the job.

I would be fine with replacing Masthay as well but there´s no reason to release him now. There´s no way the Packers know how the draft or undrafted free agency will work out and the team doesn´t gain anything by cutting him immediately. If Thompson is able to bring in a replacement there´s enough time after the draft to get rid of him.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I would be fine with replacing Masthay as well but there´s no reason to release him now. There´s no way the Packers know how the draft or undrafted free agency will work out and the team doesn´t gain anything by cutting him immediately. If Thompson is able to bring in a replacement there´s enough time after the draft to get rid of him.

My reasons for cutting Masthay before the draft are:

1. Do we really see him as the punter for the Packers next year at the cost of $1.3M?
2. Thank Tim for his service and give him as much time as possible to latch on to another team.
3. Have no punters on your roster come draft time, the top UDFA punters will see GB as the perfect spot to land.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

My reasons for cutting Masthay before the draft are:

1. Do we really see him as the punter for the Packers next year at the cost of $1.3M?
2. Thank Tim for his service and give him as much time as possible to latch on to another team.
3. Have no punters on your roster come draft time, the top UDFA punters will see GB as the perfect spot to land.

There's something to be said for not getting rid of someone before you actually have someone available to replace him. I'd make him compete for the job this year and may the best man win.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

My reasons for cutting Masthay before the draft are:

1. Do we really see him as the punter for the Packers next year at the cost of $1.3M?
2. Thank Tim for his service and give him as much time as possible to latch on to another team.
3. Have no punters on your roster come draft time, the top UDFA punters will see GB as the perfect spot to land.

The Packers would save $1.3 million in cap space by releasing Masthay after the draft as well. While it would be fair to give him the chance to latch on with another team there´s no guarantee the Packers get a decent punter in the draft or free agency so I´m not in favor of releasing him without having his successor already on the roster.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You both have more confidence in Masthay keeping his job then I do. Maybe the coaching staff does as well. I agree that while there is no $$ lost by keeping Masthay to compete for the job, I don't see how releasing him is any different then had we let Crosby walk (besides the $240K dead money). The team would be left with a position to fill that there will be more capable bodies then jobs.

As far as letting him compete for the job, didn't we try that after his crappy 2014 season? Some people complained about Crosby being resigned for too much money. If the Packers end up keeping the same Tim Masthay that we saw over the last 2 years, I would argue that he is being paid almost 3 times his value.

Again, I say cut him loose, make the position wide open and attractive to the top UDFA's to come and win it.

 

[HardRightEdge]

... the team doesn´t gain anything by cutting him immediately.

That's the operative consideration. The Packers gain nothing by cutting him before the draft. Even waiting until the final cut days before the start of the season would cost a $100,000 workout bonus and the 90th. training camp spot, fairly small considerations.

If none of the devils you want are available in the draft or as UDFAs, then the devil you have may be better than other devilish alternatives.

 

[El Guapo]

I'm with Pokerbrat on this one. Anyone can directionally punt the ball out of bounds 10 yards past the LOS. Having a successor is guaranteed but it's more a question of the likelihood of finding someone capable of, at the minimum, replicating Masthay's 2015 stats. I feel pretty confident in that possibility.

 

[HardRightEdge]

We were 30th for punts inside the 20 and tied for 31st for fair catches. This means that we didn't pin the other team inside the 20 very often and didn't provide a ton of hang time. With the Packers being first in punt coverage yardage at 4.1 yards per return, it means that our coverage unit was outstanding despite very poor punting.

There's another stat to consider side-by-side with the FC %. A guy could generate a low FC % and a good net if he was kicking a lot of balls 40 - 45 yds. out of bounds. If a guy was doing this regularly we'd expect a low % of punts returned. Masthay does not score well on this count. 50.6% of his punts were returned, ranking 23rd. in the league. It's possible he generated a low FC% while contributing to the low return yd. average without kicking the ball out of bounds by regularly putting the ball between the numbers and sidelines, aiding the coverage team.

The inside 20 number could be a function of a high percentage of punts from his own 35 back to the goal line. Or if a team was inclined to go for it on 4th. down around mid-field, give or take, then prime inside 20 opportunities do not present themselves. I don't know if the Packers were above or below average in these circumstances. However, the fact the Packers were 28th. in the league in 3rd. down conversions may have limited his inside 20 opportunities.

The eye test says Masthay wasn't very good, and the very low, and league leading, 4.2 yds. per return is primarily attributable to good coverage. However, without more advanced analytics relating to field position and punt location, it's hard to assess how bad he was. I don't think there's much question the shanks in close games were pretty painful.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You both have more confidence in Masthay keeping his job then I do. Maybe the coaching staff does as well. I agree that while there is no $$ lost by keeping Masthay to compete for the job, I don't see how releasing him is any different then had we let Crosby walk (besides the $240K dead money). The team would be left with a position to fill that there will be more capable bodies then jobs.

As far as letting him compete for the job, didn't we try that after his crappy 2014 season? Some people complained about Crosby being resigned for too much money. If the Packers end up keeping the same Tim Masthay that we saw over the last 2 years, I would argue that he is being paid almost 3 times his value.

Again, I say cut him loose, make the position wide open and attractive to the top UDFA's to come and win it.

Don´t get me wrong, I would be in favor of replacing Masthay as well but I don´t see any reason to cut him now.

The inside 20 number could be a function of a high percentage of punts from his own 35 back to the goal line. Or if a team was inclined to go for it on 4th. down around mid-field, give or take, then prime inside 20 opportunities do not present themselves. I don't know if the Packers were above or below average in these circumstances. However, the fact the Packers were 28th. in the league in 3rd. down conversions may have limited his inside 20 opportunities.

45 of Masthay´s 81 punts were from the Packers 35-yard line or closer to team´s own goal line. That was the 11th highest total in the league.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Another thing to consider is the quality of the punt blocking. Did the coverage team generate that outstanding yds. per return in part by getting quick off the line, shaving the margin for error a bit close. Though Masthay did not have a punt blocked last season, how often did he have to hurry a bit or adjust to avoid it? That would take considerable film study. I would expect that's been by the coaching staff.

 

[PackerDNA]

We can put as fine a point on it as we want, but the guy has basically sucked for 2 years.
Time to get a new punter.

 

[HardRightEdge]

45 of Masthay´s 81 punts were from the Packers 35-yard line or closer to team´s own goal line. That was the 11th highest total in the league.

Well, that would put a dent in his inside 20 opportunities but probably not enough to get his % up to a respectable number. That said, the 30th. ranking in inside 20 is a distortion.

 

[HardRightEdge]

We can put as fine a point on it as we want, but the guy has basically sucked for 2 years.
Time to get a new punter.

Punting is an area for upgrade. He wouldn't qualify as even an average NFL punter based on last season. However, there are others who are worse, and you could end up with one of them.

 

[PackerDNA]

That's this teams biggest problem; they tend to stick with mediocrities way too long.
Need an upgrade, then get busy finding one. Shouldn't take 2-4 years past the point where it was obvious.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Well, that would put a dent in his inside 20 opportunities but probably not enough to get his % up to a respectable number. That said, the 30th. ranking in inside 20 is a distortion.

Well, he still had the 11th highest total of punts closer to the within 45 yards of the opponent´s 20-yard line last season with only the Raiders having a significantly higher number of such punts.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Bottom line with Masthay for me is that if the offense isn't picking up first downs, you rely on your punter to help your defense out by flipping the field and pinning the other team as deep as possible. I don't have stats, just memory to say he has not performed this duty consistently well to be considered a weapon. It becomes even more glaring of a deficiency when the other team has a punter that can do this and a see-saw defensive battle goes to the opposing team due to a better punter.

I think we all agree that unless Masthay has had some kind of great turn around, he should be gone. We can just agree to disagree when the timing of that is.

 

[ChesterfieldCheesehead]

I'm with Capt on this one you can't know what you will get and could be left scrambling although I doubt anyone signs Tim but I could be wrong. Either way I think we all agree we need a new one but I wouldn't want just a new face to suck too I want improvement and I think you get that with bringing in a UDFA just this time one that can at least beat out Tim. It's odd to me that he probably punts great in practice whatever then crunch time and game time he sucks. So I could see why he has been kept around this long but I hope this is the last of him