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Packers promote Wolf and Gutekunst

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by captainWIMM, Mar 21, 2016.

  1. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. PackerDNA

    PackerDNA Cheesehead

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    Sounds like Wolf is next in line when TT goes. Gutekunst would seem to be sticking around, too, but who knows if this drags out and they get other opportunities?
     
  3. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I guess this moves mean the Packers want both of them to stay around for the long haul and most likely that Wolf is considered the favourite to replace Thompson at some point.
     
  4. PackerDNA

    PackerDNA Cheesehead

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    Also of interest is Wolf now holds one of TT's job titles.
     
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  5. PackerDNA

    PackerDNA Cheesehead

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    Another 'also'...I wonder if these promotions mean that other teams would need to ask permission to talk to them about joining them, and if so would it mean compensation for the Packers.
     
  6. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    As far as I know other teams have to ask for permission to talk to any front office employee under contract with another team. Promoting them makes it tougher for other teams to garner interest from Wolf or Gutekunst though. I don´t think there´s any compensation involved with executives changing teams.
     
  7. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Heard packers were approached from teams to talk to both..

    This solidifies the Pack want to keep them
     
  8. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    Looks like TT has given the team his date of retirement. Wouldn't be surprised if its after this coming season.
     
  9. Croak

    Croak Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    TT is stepping down because he has been reading this forum and discovered he is the most worthless manager ever to step into an NFL stadium. :sneaky:
     
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  10. Sky King

    Sky King Cheesehead

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    My guess is that you hit the nail squarely on the head. Maybe it happens sooner than later.
     
  11. PackerDNA

    PackerDNA Cheesehead

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    Took him long enough! :D
     
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  12. Poppa San

    Poppa San SB I trophy First of four Staff Member Moderator

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    He's one of "his guys" and as such he gets to hang on a few extra years.
     
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  13. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    The progression of job titles in the last 2 years suggests Wolf is going through a college scouting management and cap management grooming process.

    It's important to remember that prior to last season and since he graduated from the intern level, he's been exclusively on the Pro Personnel side with the exception of 2011 when he was Assistant Director of Player Personnel.

    http://www.packers.com/team/staff/eliot-wolf/554e5cf2-a949-4cb5-8d85-11e979ac48b3

    Except for 2011, where he may have pro-focused anyway, and I hope that was the case given the poor quality of that draft, you have to go back to his intern days for a time when he might have been immersed in college scouting, but reviewing film and writing reports at a tender age is not the same thing as managing the process.

    As for his Pro Personnel work, he would have had two primary jobs: 1) scouting pro players as possible FA or trade acquisitions and 2) advance scouting of upcoming opponents.

    As to the first point, the job has been largely that of the Maytag repairman, with his work bearing fruition primarily in filling out the practice squad. To hear Thompson talk about it, the way he jumped on Peppers was his idea. Even Guion was a guy Thompson was watching play against his team twice per year for several years. Jeff Saturday? Not sure who gets the blame for that.

    Maybe "Maytag repairman" is a bit harsh. Maybe he was writing copious, brilliant reports on pro players that were buried on Thompson's desk. Whatever the cause, Wolf's many years in Pro Personnel was an exercise in futility from the player acquisition standpoint. And given the few acquisitions, his opinions would have been largely untested. I'll leave it to others to identify any practice squad "gems" that did not come to the Packers as rookies out of the college scouting process.

    Despite the Pro Personnel vacuum of proven results, and limited mature involvement in college scouting, there is certainly room for encouragement. You'd have to think as Director of Player Personnel last season, he had a meaningful hand in managing the college scouting if not doing close evaluation of particular players. It looks like 2015 will pan out as a pretty good draft. Compare it to the poor drafts of 2011 and 2012, that the team is still paying for.

    As to learning the ways and means of cap management, the resume suggests there would not have been any Wolf immersion in the process until last season. While Russ Bell may be the man behind the curtain, crunching the numbers and negotiating contract details, Thompson must be driving the cap management approach out of his draft-and-develop philosophy and have thorough understanding of cap implications in a multi-year planning process. He has to sign off on those contracts after all. Wolf has likely been getting a foot (or two) into the ways and means of cap management beginning last year.

    It's very clear now that Wolf is Thompson's heir apparent, groomed for over a decade in the "Packer way" as defined by Murphy/Thompson. The timeline going forward is less clear. Wolf is awfully young and Thompson has given no hint of giving it up. It could still be several years.

    The promotion, as with the coaches in the past, could be just a way of giving him more money as the grooming process proceeds and to blunt any temptation on his part to jump to another team.

    A good 2016 draft should solidity Wolf's future role, and assuage concerns about the vacuum of accomplishments.

    The one thing I hope no one is thinking goes a Hillary Clinton comparison. Many of her supporters weigh heavily who might be whispering in her ear. That is an extremely bad way of thinking about it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2016
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  14. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    Is it this or is it that Green Bay is trying to keep other teams from snatching Wolf away.
     
  15. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    American politics are a terrible comparison to... well any venture.

    Otherwise a good writeup as usual. Although with respect to the draft isn't it pretty much all hands on deck? Aren't the Pro personnel... personnel also involved to building the team's draft board? Perhaps Pro Personnel is a great place to groom an heir apparent, not because he'll show his aptitude... but because he'll be able to spend years analyzing pro personnel and the qualities that make them good players before he becomes more involved in the draft and college scouting.
     
  16. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Actually, it is a very good comparison in this case. Maybe you missed the point in my comparing Eliot Wolf/Ron Wolf to Hillary/Bill and how people might view either as a two-for-the-price-of-one.

    When presented with a thorny issue or a difficult question, you can't always be saying "I'll get back to you" and then dash off and pick up the phone, or in Hillary's case, walk across the hall. You have to be unquestionably your own man (or woman), or people will know and not respect your decisions. Once pegged as an empty shirt, there's no fixing it.

    Now, there's nothing wrong with an occasional discussion on some broader issue with a long-time mentor. Trusted confidants are essential.

    What I'm talking about is thinking it's a two-for-the-price-of-one proposition, because if the outsider's involvement is that intensive it will turn out badly.
     
  17. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Bingo

    But I did post that already... A few posts before you mentioned it.
     
  18. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    First, it's a question of how immersed one gets on one side or another. I'm sure there is crossover between Pro and College scouting teams to one degree or another, even if it's just a second opinion on some tape. It's the FA period, so you'd expect the Pro side to be focusing on that at the moment, even if it's just gathering intel on who might be available in the post-draft cuts.

    Helping out is one thing; putting your name on the line as the responsible party is something very different.

    Secondly, managing the scouting process is quite a bit different from beating the bushes, poring over tape and writing reports. Wolf has only been involved on the college scouting management side for a year, maybe a little in 2011 or maybe not. That would suggest he's still in the grooming process.

    Wolf's bio (linked to in the earlier post) presents him as some kind of precocious scouting prodigy, writing scouting reports as early as the age of 10 and 14. I want to say "c'mon, man". Unless somebody can tell me he uncovered some value, I'd just as soon think of it as an early interest with the result being finger painting. It's not clear he's ever got in a car, drove some hundreds of miles to some backwater like Colorado State-Pueblo or Mississippi Valley State, watched some prospects play in person, chatted with coaches, compared notes with fellow area scouts, and came back with a player. Those are the guys he's managing.

    Look, if Wolf was responsible for last year's draft selections in a significant way, I'm on board. Absent proof of that, I'll remain reserved in my enthusiasm. The resume isn't there. Any enthusiasm would have to be based on simple trust that Packer management has an accurate picture of where Wolf projects.

    As you may have figured by now, I don't go in for blind trust. Call me a "verify, then trust" guy.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2016
  19. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    Hey hey hey, this is a worktime distraction I can't be expected to avoid repetition by actually reading the rest of the replies before posting ;-)
     
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  20. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    I feel myself being pulled by those thoughts but I trust they wouldn't be giving him such strong implicit support if he wasn't a guy they trusted and verified in some way we have to know.
     
  21. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    To what extent will his current role involve managing the draft? Agree on 15, probably our best draft since 2008.
     
  22. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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  23. PackerDNA

    PackerDNA Cheesehead

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    No way to know, but IMO it's the latter, easyk83. At any rate, I don't see TT going past his contract as GM, if that long.
    As to him giving notice, sure, could be. But my impression of him is that he's the kind of guy who would wake up one morning and say,"That's it, I'm done". Drive to 1265, inform them and ask Murphy how long would he need him to stick around for the transition.
     
  24. PackerDNA

    PackerDNA Cheesehead

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    I read an article at cbssports.com a couple of months ago that Ron Wolf would be joining the Browns in an advisory capacity. Naturally it was speculated that Elliot would be brought in as GM.
     
  25. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Unless the last two promotions over the last two years are "in name only", which I don't think is entirely the case, I'd suspect he's had/has meaningful involvement in managing the process as Thompson's #2 guy. To what degree is difficult to assess without being in the rooms. If a guy is being mentored for a job of such high importance, he's not going to be just observing...he's going to have his plate gradually loaded with real work as fast as he can handle it.

    Not having been in the rooms, though, it is hard to assign credit for the last draft, ergo my "verify, then trust" comment. If Thompson was out of the day-to-day management of the scout teams, doing a lot of the super scouting he loves so much, and playing Yoda to Wolf's Skywalker, then the prognosis is good.
     

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