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Packers pick #4A Blake Martinez Stanford LB

Discussion in '2016 Draft Archive' started by captainWIMM, Apr 30, 2016.

  1. bigbubbatd

    bigbubbatd Cheesehead

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    I don't worry too much about passing on Ragland. He didn't wow me. Jack will be the one I really watch. I am intrigued by the potential of a Ryan and Martinez lead ilb group. I think Ryan takes another jump this year. He hasn't been playing ilb long so a decent sized improvement is not out of line. Martinez can actually cover according to reports. If Clark can take up blockers they will be that much more likely to step up. I know Barrington will start but I hope Martinez can push him
     
  2. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    I agree with your observation. Who was the last guy the Packers drafted that had a chip on his shoulder? If you want to impress Ted, do it with your play on the field and your dedication off the field as well as in the film room. Not saying he is right or wrong here, but high character, humble guys seem to get TT's attention.
     
  3. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    In a post draft interview clip, Martinez mentioned that as a junior his role was as the run stopper whereas in his senior year he was a coverage backer.

    I think there's a point to be made about play grading here.

    If your assigned responsibility is run stopping, you can, well, focus on stopping the run. Your run grades should be pretty good when you're not expected to think coverage.

    The so-called coverage backer really isn't just a coverage backer at all except in obvious passing situations, typically dime. The coverage backer is called upon to line up with the TE in many of those tweener run/pass nickel downs. Teams run with some frequency in those downs, and they will favor the TE side for the additional blocking. Or the TE might release into a pass route, obviously.

    This makes the so-called coverage nickel backer perhaps the toughest position on the defensive side...he has to be thinking "run or pass" in those tweener downs, and there are a lot of them. And when the opponent runs, he may be looking at both the TE and OT coming at him. Consequently, we should not be surprised to see his run grades go down in that role.
     
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  4. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Being a mouthy guy does not factor into "character" in the way I would define it. "Character" to me is "show up on time, work hard, stay out of trouble." Was Finley a "high character guy"? I would say so. Contrary to popular understanding, according to McCarthy he had one of the strongest work ethics on the team.

    That takes us to humility. I think that hits the nail on the head. There's a certain baseline in this regard that the Packers want. They don't want distracting jibber jabber in the locker room, in the position room, or in the media, at least until a guy has earned the right. They want guys who, not to put too fine a point on it, will be told to do something once and go do it without any pushback. They don't want them talking trash in the media or on Twitter. Consider Finley's distracting twitter feed. You don't want that, but it will be tolerated if the player is good enough.

    Now, Woodson was a pretty outspoken guy. Once he got rolling it was hard to get him to stop talking. There's Finley again. Daniels gets riled up too, calling out his teammates in the media even if it's somewhat subtle and not by name, but we have an idea who he's talking about. And of course Rodgers, whether by expressions on the field, discussions on the sidelines, commenting in the media, or even in the game planning room (if Driver and Jennings are to be believed) doesn't cut anybody slack who does not perform to his standards.

    The Packers will tolerate this stuff from core players. Done right by the right guys it helps in the way of "accountability" even if it is not what you'd call "humble". Vocal leaders are necessary even if they say stuff from time to time that makes you uncomfortable.

    To the point: a low draft pick is expected to shut up, listen, learn within the scheme concepts, and then demonstrate that learning. They don't want these guys being mouthy coming in.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2016
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  5. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Sure. Add "smart" to the list. This draft might qualify as the "All-Time Greatest IQ Draft" if the schools are any indication. Stanford, Northwestern...sure. The athletic program at Cal doesn't like having the "Berkeley" tagged on the back so as not to sound like nerdy hippies (or I guess nerdy hipsters these days). UCLA is a pretty darn good state school and Clark sounds like a smart guy, particularly for a D-Lineman. Not sure how Utah St. got in there. ;)

    I have mixed feelings on the matter. Do you sacrifice some intensity with those kinds of "humble" guys?

    I think it comes down to scheme, actually, which is an outgrowth of the dispositions of the brain trust.

    The Packers are a thinking man's finesse team when you get down to it, which requires an emphasis on team play. Zone blocking, multi-receiver combination routes, and whatever Capers is doing on the defensive side of the ball...this stuff requires football smarts (which does correlate to native intelligence in today's game), learning, discipline. And what's happening in college football these days has strayed pretty far from what the NFL is doing. Players have to learn a new game.

    In Green Bay, play making is supposed to come out of the team concept, unless you're a preeminent solo artist like Woodson or Matthews. Guys who are all about "me" don't work that well.

    On the other hand, take the Bills as an example, just because I have more familiarity with them than any team other than the Packers. Ryan's 2015 offense was designed for ground and pound behind man blocking. Not a lot of thinking go on there...get off the ball and hit somebody. It got so bad Watkins complained, in the press, that the offense was suffering by not getting him the ball. He was right. In Green Bay that would not be tolerated. In Buffalo, the reaction was, "yeah, he's right" and they got him more involved. Mouthing off within a physical style of play tend to go together. You can't pick and choose how intensity manifests itself.

    Buffalo's outstanding 2014 defense under Schwartz, which Packer fans saw first hand, was a downhill attacking unit with the personalities to match. Ryan's defense in 2015 was more of a finesse job...he's got a fair number of looks, standard 4-3, 4-3 Under, and few other variations. And the D-Line was bitching in the press about Ryan not releasing the hounds, and that was not just Mario Williams doing the bitching. It was a mismatch of scheme and personalities.

    Or just look at the Seattle defense, a physical, downhill, very mouthy group with a "we're going to crowd the box and come at you; try to beat that" attitude. The personalities match the scheme. Wagner and Thomas in the middle keep the whole thing from flying off its axis.

    So, in short, going for humble guys who don't mouth off isn't simply a scouting question or a locker room question...it's really a scheme question.

    The reason I have mixed feelings on this issue is that I'm not crazy about Capers scheme; it lacks resiliency. It could use a dash of intensity and backbone from somebody other than Daniels.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2016
  6. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    The Packers don't use a lot of multi receiver combination routes. That was a main reason the team's passing attack struggled mightily after losing Nelson last season.
     
  7. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    In a 4-wide set it's virtually unavoidable.
     
  8. OldSchool101

    OldSchool101 Pack

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    Someone should've told Manziel this!:cool:
     
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  9. Ogsponge

    Ogsponge Cheesehead

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    So another ilb that is too slow to cover TE's and RB's in the NFL? Awesome!
     
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  10. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Martinez is fast enough to cover running backs and tight ends as long as he has the instincts necessary to be succesful. The way he performed in Stanford it seems he's capable of doing it.
     
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  11. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    Backs rolling out to the flats dont usually run their routes at full speed, for them 4.7 is plenty fast. Same thing with TEs, if your technique is good 4.7 will do it. You don't have to run step for step, you just have to be fast enough to squeeze a TE with the safety.
     
  12. jetfixer

    jetfixer Cheesehead

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    I thought I heard he stayed in on pass plays too, maybe im wrong.
     
  13. jetfixer

    jetfixer Cheesehead

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    I will be watching the other two guys for sure, just knew we would take one.......hope the front office is right.
     
  14. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Manziel's lack of humility was not the problem. Cam Newton has not one scintilla of it, a topic for another time, but most people hold their tongues because he stays clean and performs.

    Read again my definition of good character, which is essential, but has nothing to do with jaw flapping: show up on time, work hard, stay out of trouble. Strikes one, two and three with this kid.

    Manziel has all signs of being a dysfunctional alcoholic, with a mean drunk streak. He has an enabling agent who shacked him up with Josh Gordon in LA. What was he thinking? He should be escorting him to AA meetings or something of the sort.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2016
  15. Ogsponge

    Ogsponge Cheesehead

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    Didn't he run something like a 4.7? I don't buy that he is going to be fast enough in the NFL unless he has near perfect instincts
     
  16. Patriotplayer90

    Patriotplayer90 Cheesehead

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    Yeah, that Bowman guy in San Francisco is worthless.
     
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  17. Ogsponge

    Ogsponge Cheesehead

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    Are we talking about the same guy with all of two passes defended last year? Maybe you should pick someone else.
     
  18. Ogsponge

    Ogsponge Cheesehead

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    Yet the Pack managed to do it. A lot. It was really sickening watching guys who could not get open consistently running route's Independently of one another. Combine that with Rodgers insistence on basically never taking a chance in a tight window and his inability to hit the broadside of a barn (quite often last year) it is no wonder the offense was so putrid last year.
     
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  19. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Inside linebackers running below a 4.75 are fast enough to cover most running backs and tight ends as long as they have great instincts in coverage.

    I guess Patriotplayer's point was that Bowman ran a 4.77 40 at the combine yet excels in coverage at the pro level.
     
  20. Luca

    Luca Cheesehead

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    But he also ran a 6.98 3 Cone, which was the 2nd time among ILB. This drill doesn't only tests speed, but also quickness and change of direction. Therefore, in my opinion, this is a far better indicator for coverage skills (especially in the middle of the field).

    By the way, his shuttle time of 4.20 was also pretty good.
     
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  21. Vrill

    Vrill Cheesehead

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    He said low 4.6 is his fastest time in an interview. But 40 times in general are overrated. Always have been.
     
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  22. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    There's little question in my mind this guy will be the dime backer. Where it goes from there we'll just have to wait and see.
     
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  23. Patriotplayer90

    Patriotplayer90 Cheesehead

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    You said that 4.7 is too slow to play LB in the NFL. If you specifically meant in coverage, you've got a better argument, but speed isn't the only factor. You dismissing him for his pass breakups and ignoring that he led the league in tackles is a bit silly. I'd take that any day.
     
  24. Ogsponge

    Ogsponge Cheesehead

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    You must have missed my original post where I was talking about coverage, which is the biggest area of weakness for us, TE's and RB's out of the backfield.

    I am not saying he is not capable of playing the position at all, and i will admit he is fast enough that if he is really smart and has great instincts he could get it done, however only time will tell.
     
  25. OldSchool101

    OldSchool101 Pack

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    I also don't think it was any coincidence that AR was in knee surgery the week after our last playoff game. Yes, There was something uncharacteristically off with his throws n personally I believe he was playing on an injured leg and it moreso distracted him at times.
     

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