Packers need better results this season to justify Thompson's blueprint

[Deleted member 6794]

Very interesting article by Pete Dougherty, taking a realistic look at Thompson's approach to build the Packers.

I have posted a lot of similar ideas on this forum for quite some time.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...tify-his-blueprint-b99767495z1-388215842.html

 

[Ace]

Everytime I see an article regarding Ted and the way he goes about his business I always wonder if it's to rile up the Ted haters and get clicks. This time I don't think it's the case. This is a very well written article looking at both the good and bad of how Ted operates. There isn't a whole lot to argue with but winning a super bowl is HARD, regardless of whether he were to use free agency or not. Could he do more? Sure, I've said many times that I wish he's take more calculated risks in free agency but by no means is it a recipe for immediate success.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Everytime I see an article regarding Ted and the way he goes about his business I always wonder if it's to rile up the Ted haters and get clicks. This time I don't think it's the case. This is a very well written article looking at both the good and bad of how Ted operates. There isn't a whole lot to argue with but winning a super bowl is HARD, regardless of whether he were to use free agency or not. Could he do more? Sure, I've said many times that I wish he's take more calculated risks in free agency but by no means is it a recipe for immediate success.

There's no denying that winning a Super Bowl is extremely tough but as Dougherty points out it's fair to expect better results when having one of the two best quarterbacks in the league for the last eight seasons.

 

[Ace]

There's no denying that winning a Super Bowl is extremely tough but as Dougherty points out it's fair to expect better results when having one of the two best quarterbacks in the league for the last eight seasons.

And I don't disagree with that. I might argue it's tougher to sustain the success Ted has over his tenure than it is to win a SB though also. With the salary cap, and player contracts going through the roof what he's accomplished here is no small feat. Granted, he's had 2 HOF QB's to fall back on which will cover up some deficiencies but overall he's done a fantastic job of putting the Packers in a position to succeed every single year. Anyone can do what Denver did but look at them now. They may finish 3rd in that division this year, now their D is still really good but offensively they are going to be a mess.

The Patriots (aside from the cheating) is how I wish the Packers approached the last 10 years. You had a HOF QB at the end of his tenure, and now you have another HOF QB in his prime it would be nice to take a calculated risk here and there to push the team over the top.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

And I don't disagree with that. I might argue it's tougher to sustain the success Ted has over his tenure than it is to win a SB though also. With the salary cap, and player contracts going through the roof what he's accomplished here is no small feat. Granted, he's had 2 HOF QB's to fall back on which will cover up some deficiencies but overall he's done a fantastic job of putting the Packers in a position to succeed every single year. Anyone can do what Denver did but look at them now. They may finish 3rd in that division this year, now their D is still really good but offensively they are going to be a mess.

The Patriots (aside from the cheating) is how I wish the Packers approached the last 10 years. You had a HOF QB at the end of his tenure, and now you have another HOF QB in his prime it would be nice to take a calculated risk here and there to push the team over the top.

Overall Thompson has done a great job but don't fool yourself, an elite quarterback covers up for a lot of deficiencies.

It's no secret that I would like him to take more a calculated risk more often. Like Dougherty mentions Myles Jack is a perfect example for him being too risk-averse.

 

[JBlood]

Very interesting article by Pete Dougherty, taking a realistic look at Thompson's approach to build the Packers.

I have posted a lot of similar ideas on this forum for quite some time.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...tify-his-blueprint-b99767495z1-388215842.html

I agree 100% with Dougherty, and the same could be said for the coaching staff.

 

[El Guapo]

So the debacle in Seattle is laid at TT's feet too? Coaching and the players are as big a part of the outcome as the personnel that the GM stacks in the cupboards. Right now TT is in the same class as Ron Wolf in terms of GM measurables:

Wolf - 9 seasons
92-52 (.639 winning percentage)
1 SB win
1 SB loss
3 NFC Championship games (won 2, lost 1)
6 Playoff births
3 Division titles

Thompson - 11 seasons
108-67 (.617 winning percentage)
1 SB win
0 SB losses
3 NFC Championship games (won 1, lost 2)
8 Playoff births
5 Division titles

El Guapo - 40 seasons
341-282 (.547 winning percentage)
2 SB wins
1 SB loss
7 NFC Championship games (won 3, lost 4)
15 Playoff births
8 Division titles

I'm clearly the champ.

Yes TT could do more and it might work but might not. To predicate the notion that what he hasn't done is the reason we haven't reached Brady/Patriots status is a giant leap in logic.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

So the debacle in Seattle is laid at TT's feet too? Coaching and the players are as big a part of the outcome as the personnel that the GM stacks in the cupboards.

Yes TT could do more and it might work but might not. To predicate the notion that what he hasn't done is the reason we haven't reached Brady/Patriots status is a giant leap in logic.

If Thompson had addressed the inside linebacker position with at least average talent before the 2014 season the Packers would have won the NFCCG at Seattle.

Mostly only using one out of three ways to improve the roster has been a huge factor in the team coming up short most of the time. While the Patriots have made tons of mistakes as well their willingness to take calculated risks has made them the most successful franchise over the last 15 years.

 

[Ace]

So the debacle in Seattle is laid at TT's feet too? Coaching and the players are as big a part of the outcome as the personnel that the GM stacks in the cupboards. Right now TT is in the same class as Ron Wolf in terms of GM measurables:

Wolf - 9 seasons
92-52 (.639 winning percentage)
1 SB win
1 SB loss
3 NFC Championship games (won 2, lost 1)
6 Playoff births
3 Division titles

Thompson - 11 seasons
108-67 (.617 winning percentage)
1 SB win
0 SB losses
3 NFC Championship games (won 1, lost 2)
8 Playoff births
5 Division titles

El Guapo - 40 seasons
341-282 (.547 winning percentage)
2 SB wins
1 SB loss
7 NFC Championship games (won 3, lost 4)
15 Playoff births
8 Division titles

I'm clearly the champ.

Yes TT could do more and it might work but might not. To predicate the notion that what he hasn't done is the reason we haven't reached Brady/Patriots status is a giant leap in logic.

I was just emailing with a buddy of mine about this exact same thing see below...


So, I don’t understand why Ron Wolf is revered as this saint or God of a GM while Ted is constantly having to prove himself. Their careers are basically carbon copies of each other. Build through the draft, and a couple big moves that put them over the top. Now, the one thing I’ll say about Wolf is he went out and got Rison the SB year while I don’t think Ted would do that.

They both won SB’s in their 6th year as GM of the team. Wolf made a huge trade to get Favre no question but I’d argue Ted drafting Aaron with his 1st pick as Packers GM took more balls considering Favre was still here. I don’t think Woodson was as big or meant as much at the time as the White signing did but Woodson resurrected his career here, became an integral part of the team and meant a ton to the organization once he got in line so I think it’s at least somewhat comparable.

I have a list of each of their notable draft picks to this point (Wolf from 91-01 and Ted from 05-15) and there’s some definite similarities. There’s absolutely no question that Ted came from the Wolf tree of GM’ing. The only thing I can think of is Wolf was responsible for bringing this team back from decades of crap while it’s viewed that Ted basically lucked into 2 HOF QB’s + 15 years of success prior and has only won 1 SB to this point. The criminal lack of understanding of how the salary cap works, even just a basic understanding of it, is something I simply can’t tolerate anymore. I’m so sick and f’ing tired of fans who try and spend the Packers money like they have a clue on how to do it. I heard some idiot call in and say there’s no reason Ted shouldn’t have signed Malik Jackson. Well, I can give you 90 million of them. Even better the guy didn’t know what position he played, he said that he’d have brought him in on a 1 or 2 year deal (sure okay) and let Martinez learn behind him. Is there an ILB named Malik Jackson that I’m not privy to in the NFL?

Is Ted perfect? Absolutely not, but I don’t understand why Wolf is viewed as far superior when in reality Ted is the same guy and goes about business the same way.

 

[El Guapo]

Mostly only using one out of three ways to improve the roster has been a huge factor in the team coming up short most of the time.

It's one of the factors - huge is debatable. One could argue that the Patriots player acquisition isn't the difference, but the QB and the coach are what account for the difference.

Thompson's personnel strategy is also a factor in why the Packers have been consistently successful each season that Rodgers has been QB.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It's one of the factors - huge is debatable. One could argue that the Patriots player acquisition isn't the difference, but the QB and the coach are what account for the difference.

Thompson's personnel strategy is also a factor in why the Packers have been consistently successful each season that Rodgers has been QB.

I think that Rodgers is the main reason the Packers have been that successful since he became the starter. To win a Super Bowl the supporting cast both on offense and defense has to be pretty good as well and the Patriots have done a better job in that area.

 

[Half Empty]

I was just emailing with a buddy of mine about this exact same thing see below...


So, I don’t understand why Ron Wolf is revered as this saint or God of a GM while Ted is constantly having to prove himself.

1. In what condition was the team when Wolf took over? When TT stepped in?

2. How many folks remember the bad about anything/anyone as time goes on?

 

[Ace]

1. In what condition was the team when Wolf took over? When TT stepped in?

2. How many folks remember the bad about anything/anyone as time goes on?

1. You clearly didn't read the entire thing.
2. So as time goes on Ted will be viewed as an equal to Ron Wolf? Highly unlikely.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I was just emailing with a buddy of mine about this exact same thing see below...


So, I don’t understand why Ron Wolf is revered as this saint or God of a GM while Ted is constantly having to prove himself. Their careers are basically carbon copies of each other. Build through the draft, and a couple big moves that put them over the top. Now, the one thing I’ll say about Wolf is he went out and got Rison the SB year while I don’t think Ted would do that.

They both won SB’s in their 6th year as GM of the team. Wolf made a huge trade to get Favre no question but I’d argue Ted drafting Aaron with his 1st pick as Packers GM took more balls considering Favre was still here. I don’t think Woodson was as big or meant as much at the time as the White signing did but Woodson resurrected his career here, became an integral part of the team and meant a ton to the organization once he got in line so I think it’s at least somewhat comparable.

I have a list of each of their notable draft picks to this point (Wolf from 91-01 and Ted from 05-15) and there’s some definite similarities. There’s absolutely no question that Ted came from the Wolf tree of GM’ing. The only thing I can think of is Wolf was responsible for bringing this team back from decades of crap while it’s viewed that Ted basically lucked into 2 HOF QB’s + 15 years of success prior and has only won 1 SB to this point. The criminal lack of understanding of how the salary cap works, even just a basic understanding of it, is something I simply can’t tolerate anymore. I’m so sick and f’ing tired of fans who try and spend the Packers money like they have a clue on how to do it. I heard some idiot call in and say there’s no reason Ted shouldn’t have signed Malik Jackson. Well, I can give you 90 million of them. Even better the guy didn’t know what position he played, he said that he’d have brought him in on a 1 or 2 year deal (sure okay) and let Martinez learn behind him. Is there an ILB named Malik Jackson that I’m not privy to in the NFL?

Is Ted perfect? Absolutely not, but I don’t understand why Wolf is viewed as far superior when in reality Ted is the same guy and goes about business the same way.

I don't consider Wolf to be a superior general manager over Thompson. Most reasonable Packers fans agree that both have done a great job overall but are disappointed that having two Hall of Fame quarterbacks for the last 24 years have resulted in "only' two Super Bowl wins.

In my opinion Thompson deserves criticism for overpaying to re-sign his own players as well as not taking more risks in free agency and trades. I'm not advocating for breaking the bank on every big name free agent by any means though.

 

[Ace]

I don't consider Wolf to be a superior general manager over Thompson.

Neither do I but I think you and I are in the vast minority. I could be wrong but I don't think I am.

 

[Arthur Squires]

TT is a draft and teach GM. He has had a few to mention that were terrible. He's been solid last 2 years in 1st Rd with Dix and Randall. But the Kenny Clark pick worries me, anybody remember Justin Harrell? Khyri Thornton was the same size and played very similar to Clark.

 

[RRyder]

It's one of the factors - huge is debatable. One could argue that the Patriots player acquisition isn't the difference, but the QB and the coach are what account for the difference.

Thompson's personnel strategy is also a factor in why the Packers have been consistently successful each season that Rodgers has been QB.

Well I'd argue that in terms of winning a championship the Packers have just as many Super Bowl rings as the Patriots despite the differences in aquiring talent.

Point being that while the elite QBs do cover up alot of holes it's incredibly difficult and demands luck to win one. How many ELITE QBs have more then a single ring over the last 8 years?

 

[Half Empty]

1. You clearly didn't read the entire thing.
2. So as time goes on Ted will be viewed as an equal to Ron Wolf? Highly unlikely.

Didn't read any of it. Just answered the question I quoted. Bold part is obviously a strictly personal opinion - no problem having one, just be careful about predicting the future.

 

[Ace]

Didn't read any of it. Just answered the question I quoted. Bold part is obviously a strictly personal opinion - no problem having one, just be careful about predicting the future.

Fair enough.

And yes it's a personal opinion but if Ted only wins 1 SB, do you honestly think he's going to be viewed on the same level as Ron Wolf? I've read/heard plenty of peoples opinions on him that strongly make me think otherwise so it's not based on nothing.

 

[PikeBadger]

Don't forget about Sherman, he was a horrible GM. I hold Wolf partially responsible for Sherman following him in the GM job. He gets the blame for hiring Ray Rhodes too.

I view Thompson as being slightly better overall than Wolf.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

But the Kenny Clark pick worries me, anybody remember Justin Harrell? Khyri Thornton was the same size and played very similar to Clark.

Clark doesn't have an injury history coming out of college like Harrell did and is way more talented than Thornton. I would have liked Thompson to select Myles Jack at #27 though.

Well I'd argue that in terms of winning a championship the Packers have just as many Super Bowl rings as the Patriots despite the differences in aquiring talent.

Point being that while the elite QBs do cover up alot of holes it's incredibly difficult and demands luck to win one. How many ELITE QBs have more then a single ring over the last 8 years?

The Patriots have win four Super Bowls in 15 seasons with a Hall of Fame quarterback while the Packers have two in 24 years. In my opinion it doesn't make sense to pick a random time frame.

 

[PikeBadger]

There's no denying that winning a Super Bowl is extremely tough but as Dougherty points out it's fair to expect better results when having one of the two best quarterbacks in the league for the last eight seasons.

It's even tougher when the aforementioned QB has been one of the 2 best for only 4 years, 5 years is even stretching it.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It's even tougher when the aforementioned QB has been one of the 2 best for only 4 years, 5 years is even stretching it.

Rodgers has been an elite quarterback for at least the last six seasons. Maybe the second half of the 2009 season should be included as well.

 

[Half Empty]

Fair enough.

And yes it's a personal opinion but if Ted only wins 1 SB, do you honestly think he's going to be viewed on the same level as Ron Wolf? I've read/heard plenty of peoples opinions on him that strongly make me think otherwise so it's not based on nothing.

As with most things on a forum like this, parameters and definitions are important. I didn't look back, but I don't remember Ted's one win as part of the eventual comparison, just 'who's best?' between him and Wolf. If TT does win another one, then I certainly think feelings need to shift, especially for folks like me who feel it's all about championships.

There are other parts of the equation, such as is who is doing the viewing? You mention plenty of people on whom you base your contention. If it's their votes that count, certainly Wolf comes out of top. If it's (fill in a demographic here) that vote, maybe it's the reverse. Also, when is the vote taken? Right now, for the reasons I first stated, I have no difficulty thinking that Wolf wins most elections. Right after TT's very possible second SB - let's flip the results. Twenty years from now, it's probably 'really glad we had two really good GMs'.

 

[Carl]

If Thompson had addressed the inside linebacker position with at least average talent before the 2014 season the Packers would have won the NFCCG at Seattle.

Mostly only using one out of three ways to improve the roster has been a huge factor in the team coming up short most of the time. While the Patriots have made tons of mistakes as well their willingness to take calculated risks has made them the most successful franchise over the last 15 years.

An epic collapse was a much bigger reason for the the loss than ILB. Yes, ILB players made mistakes in the game, but so did many other guys including Rodgers.

The same set of players who lost the lead with the ILB weakness had the game in the bag. I don't see that game on Thompson.