Packers mismanaging IR?

[adambr2]

The Packers management of their IR spot, particularly as it pertains to Shields and Lacy, has been questionable at best.

First, although every concussion situation is unique, I thought it was assumed by most when Shields went down with one that he would not return this season, if at all. Given the youth in the secondary, if they do indeed expect Shields back this year, the time to place him on IR was immediately, to get him back as soon as possible.

Unless they're simply saying positive things and don't really expect Shields back this year, placing him on IR a month later, rather than waiting it out, was a needless waste of his availability.

Which brings us to Lacy. If they also do expect him back this year, given the complete lack of any impact RB on this team, why IR him, knowing full well that the IR/return spot is already intended for Shields and one of the two will see their season end with the move? There are cuts on this team that can be afforded. We are carrying 7 WR on the roster, one of which has absolutely no role on either offense or special teams. Carrying 7 WR is a luxury, not a necessity, especially with an 8th on the practice squad. It's not a luxury we can afford if it costs us one of our most important players late in the season.

Now we have placed ourselves in a position where either our top corner or one of our best offensive weapons will not be able to return this season, even if fully healthy.

 

[swhitset]

The Packers management of their IR spot, particularly as it pertains to Shields and Lacy, has been questionable at best.

First, although every concussion situation is unique, I thought it was assumed by most when Shields went down with one that he would not return this season, if at all. Given the youth in the secondary, if they do indeed expect Shields back this year, the time to place him on IR was immediately, to get him back as soon as possible.

Unless they're simply saying positive things and don't really expect Shields back this year, placing him on IR a month later, rather than waiting it out, was a needless waste of his availability.

Which brings us to Lacy. If they also do expect him back this year, given the complete lack of any impact RB on this team, why IR him, knowing full well that the IR/return spot is already intended for Shields and one of the two will see their season end with the move? There are cuts on this team that can be afforded. We are carrying 7 WR on the roster, one of which has absolutely no role on either offense or special teams. Carrying 7 WR is a luxury, not a necessity, especially with an 8th on the practice squad. It's not a luxury we can afford if it costs us one of our most important players late in the season.

Now we have placed ourselves in a position where either our top corner or one of our best offensive weapons will not be able to return this season, even if fully healthy.

I think you have made a lot of assumptions without any real knowledge about what is going on behind the scenes. For instance, while nothing concrete has been said, you seem to think Lacy will be able to return. I have no real knowledge either, but my gut is telling me, he is hurt far worse than we assumed. Neither of us knows the truth, therefore we cannot say that the coaches made a poor decision. I do tend to agree that Shields probably should have been IR'd earlier, but ultimately, I doubt it matters because I think his career is over.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The Packers management of their IR spot, particularly as it pertains to Shields and Lacy, has been questionable at best.

First, although every concussion situation is unique, I thought it was assumed by most when Shields went down with one that he would not return this season, if at all. Given the youth in the secondary, if they do indeed expect Shields back this year, the time to place him on IR was immediately, to get him back as soon as possible.

Unless they're simply saying positive things and don't really expect Shields back this year, placing him on IR a month later, rather than waiting it out, was a needless waste of his availability.

Which brings us to Lacy. If they also do expect him back this year, given the complete lack of any impact RB on this team, why IR him, knowing full well that the IR/return spot is already intended for Shields and one of the two will see their season end with the move? There are cuts on this team that can be afforded. We are carrying 7 WR on the roster, one of which has absolutely no role on either offense or special teams. Carrying 7 WR is a luxury, not a necessity, especially with an 8th on the practice squad. It's not a luxury we can afford if it costs us one of our most important players late in the season.

Now we have placed ourselves in a position where either our top corner or one of our best offensive weapons will not be able to return this season, even if fully healthy.

I agree the Packers badly mishandled the situation with Shoelds by waiting five weeks to put him on injured reserve. I guess it was the right move to put Lacy on the list though.

 

[InFamous]

Depends on whether or not Shields need another 6 (or does the new rule state 8?) weeks to recover. If thats the case, that longer lead-up period to IR him, aint doing any harm. Problem is, you never know how long it takes to get back on the field after a concussion. I dont see any mismanaging with regard to the Lacy IR.
In a nutshell, personally I dont think about the situations being mismanaged.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Depends on whether or not Shields need another 6 (or does the new rule state 8?) weeks to recover. If thats the case, that longer lead-up period to IR him, aint doing any harm. Problem is, you never know how long it takes to get back on the field after a concussion.

It was pretty obvious that Shields was done for good after suffering his fifth concussion on a harmless tackle. Immediately putting him on injured reserve would have allowed the Packers to either use the roster spot on another cornerback or at least not losing Callahan to the Saints.

 

[adambr2]

I think you have made a lot of assumptions without any real knowledge about what is going on behind the scenes. For instance, while nothing concrete has been said, you seem to think Lacy will be able to return. I have no real knowledge either, but my gut is telling me, he is hurt far worse than we assumed. Neither of us knows the truth, therefore we cannot say that the coaches made a poor decision. I do tend to agree that Shields probably should have been IR'd earlier, but ultimately, I doubt it matters because I think his career is over.

In both cases I stated in the original post that IF both players are indeed expected to be healthy enough to return this year than the IR certainly could have been managed better.

I fully understand that the prognosis on both for this season can't be accurately projected with certainty without the medical reports that we don't have access to.

Also, none of us to my knowledge have access to behind the scenes information, so if we couldn't make assumptions based on the information we have, it'd be quiet here indeed. Are you not also making an assumption without behind the scenes knowledge by saying you think Shields' career is over? None of the comments from the coaching staff on Shields are in line with that. In fact I would question as to why in the world Shields wasn't immediately IR'ed if the coaches and medical staff had any feeling that this was a career ending concussion.

 

[PikeBadger]

It was pretty obvious that Shields was done for good after suffering his fifth concussion on a harmless tackle. Immediately putting him on injured reserve would have allowed the Packers to either use the roster spot on another cornerback or at least not losing Callahan to the Saints.

Some of you guys speak as if you are the attending medical staff. I think the real truth lies closer to, none of us here really know what is medically going on in any detail inside 1265 Lombardi. All this talk is based on assumptions and is being used to further personal agendas.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Some of you guys speak as if you are the attending medical staff. I think the real truth lies closer to, none of us here really know what is medically going on in any detail inside 1265 Lombardi. All this talk is based on assumptions and is being used to further personal agendas.

Geez, of course we don't know what's going inside 1265 Lombardi but common sense tells me it was pretty obvious Shields would at least miss several weeks after his latest concussion and most likely is done for good. There was no need to have any inside information to make that evaluation after him suffering the injury.

BTW as adambr mentioned before, if there was only talk about stuff we know for a fact around here this forum would be awfully quiet.

 

[InFamous]

It was pretty obvious that Shields was done for good after suffering his fifth concussion on a harmless tackle. Immediately putting him on injured reserve would have allowed the Packers to either use the roster spot on another cornerback or at least not losing Callahan to the Saints.

If it was a different injury, I would totally agree, but based on the fact a concussion is never the same as another, I wouldn't put it as simple as you point it out.
The fact, that it has been a harmless tackle doesn't suggest anything about the healing process. The amount of concussions in the past ain't indicating anything either.

I give you that there is a common theme there thou, since we were in a similar situation last year, when Montgomery was IR'ed way too late.

 

[Carl]

Geez, of course we don't know what's going inside 1265 Lombardi but common sense tells me it was pretty obvious Shields would at least miss several weeks after his latest concussion and most likely is done for good. There was no need to have any inside information to make that evaluation after him suffering the injury.

BTW as adambr mentioned before, if there was only talk about stuff we know for a fact around here this forum would be awfully quiet.

Concussions can present very differently from person to person, even after having multiples ones.

Therefore, waiting to see how he was recovering rather than putting him IR immediately made the most sense.

 

[PikeBadger]

Geez, of course we don't know what's going inside 1265 Lombardi but common sense tells me it was pretty obvious Shields would at least miss several weeks after his latest concussion and most likely is done for good. There was no need to have any inside information to make that evaluation after him suffering the injury.

BTW as adambr mentioned before, if there was only talk about stuff we know for a fact around here this forum would be awfully quiet.

Really? You are capable of correctly diagnosing the extent of an injury and recovery timetables through a quick glance at instant replay on a TV set? Who are you? WebMD?

It's fine to discuss aspects of the Packers that we don't have facts on. I think the verbiage used and tone should be a reflection of the lack of facts. Some of you sound like spin doctors.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If it was a different injury, I would totally agree, but based on the fact a concussion is never the same as another, I wouldn't put it as simple as you point it out.
The fact, that it has been a harmless tackle doesn't suggest anything about the healing process. The amount of concussions in the past ain't indicating anything either.

Concussions can present very differently from person to person, even after having multiples ones.

Therefore, waiting to see how he was recovering rather than putting him IR immediately made the most sense.

After suffering his fifth concussion in Jacksonville it took Shields four weeks to be cleared to attend meetings!!! We're not even talk about practice here. At some point the Packers braintrust should have been able to figure out he was done.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Really? You are capable of correctly diagnosing the extent of an injury and recovery timetables through a quick glance at instant replay on a TV set? Who are you? WebMD?

Well, in hindsight the fans thinking Shields was done were right compared to the braintrust having the inside information.

 

[Carl]

After suffering his fifth concussion inJacksonville it took Shields four weeks to be cleared to attend meetings!!! We're not even talk about practice here. At some point the Packers braintrust should have been able to figure out he was done.

Well, in hindsight the fans thinking Shields was done were right compared to the braintrust having the inside information.

Considering the season isn't done yet, it's pretty miraculous you know he's done already.

Once again, concussions present very differently. I'm a vestibular physical therapy who frequently works with people who have had concussions. I've seen people with severe symptoms for weeks make quick turn arounds.

I've also seen people with one concussion have issues for years.

Waiting on Shields until they needed the roster spot was the right call.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Waiting on Shields until they needed the roster spot was the right call.

Considering McCarthy was furious about losing Callahan, the Packers having been in need of another cornerback for most of the season and Shields ending up on injured reserve after all it's tough to understand how anyone can come up with the conclusion it was the right move.

 

[Carl]

Considering McCarthy was furious about losing Callahan, the Packers having been in need of another cornerback for most of the season and Shields ending up on injured reserve after all it's tough to understand how anyone can come up with the conclusion it was the right move.

Callahan can be resigned today if they want him back.

Also, I just explained to you how I got to that conclusion, which is based on a lot of experience and training.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Also, I just explained to you how I got to that conclusion, which is based on a lot of experience and training.

Yet there's no doubt the Packers got it wrong.

 

[adambr2]

All this talk is based on assumptions and is being used to further personal agendas.

Um, what? Personal agendas, seriously?

No one here is rooting for Shields to retire (or to come back too soon) just so they can have the personal satisfaction of thumbing their noses and saying 'I told you so.'

 

[sschind]

Really? You are capable of correctly diagnosing the extent of an injury and recovery timetables through a quick glance at instant replay on a TV set? Who are you? WebMD?

It's fine to discuss aspects of the Packers that we don't have facts on. I think the verbiage used and tone should be a reflection of the lack of facts. Some of you sound like spin doctors.

Nah, if he were WebMD poor Sam would have cancer.

 

[Pack-12]

After suffering his fifth concussion in Jacksonville it took Shields four weeks to be cleared to attend meetings!!! We're not even talk about practice here. At some point the Packers braintrust should have been able to figure out he was done.

Being cleared to attend meetings indicates he was making progress. It's entirely possible for someone having concussion symptoms to show progress and then have a setback or have that progress slow. It's the wrong call in hindsight but people making those decisions and looking at his progress don't get to go back in time.

 

[Mondio]

Hindsight is great

I've always said I felt Sam was done after this one. That said, he's the type of player that if he can come back, and he wants to play, you let him come back. Our defense is better with him than without.

Concussions are variable, everything from how they happen to how the respond and time to get back in the field. Though I have my opinion based on never meeting Sam or observing him they any treatment, it's obvious to me that the Packers and Sam Shields want him back in the field if he's able to get back on the field. It's not uncommon to show improvement and then have to start right back over at square 1 in the concussion protocol.

Other injuries forced their hand, and most of those were ones that people were coming back for sooner than later. It makes it more difficult I think to maintain a roster at that point. Lots of week to week injuries at a lot of positions can be as much or more difficult than having some serious season enders.

You can only protect so many players on the roster and lots of short term injuries, or something as variable as a concussion make it more difficult IMO

 

[PikeBadger]

Um, what? Personal agendas, seriously?

No one here is rooting for Shields to retire (or to come back too soon) just so they can have the personal satisfaction of thumbing their noses and saying 'I told you so.'

No, the personal agenda of jabbing mgmt every chance they can conjure up. I suspect the doctors told mgmt, we don't know how long this recovery will take.

 

[PikeBadger]

Yet there's no doubt the Packers got it wrong.

Another wrong conclusion. There is plenty of doubt to the specifics of all injuries. Why do you think you know better than all the inside people with the information and facts?

 

[Firethorn1001]

My guess is they didn't want to IR him because it was so up in the air. Is it 2 weeks, 8 weeks, season, career? We all can speculate, but they probably didn't want to IR him just in case there was someone else that had an injury that was a guaranteed 6-8 weeks. Randall/Rollins aren't injured, they probably don't IR him. Don't think they mismanaged it. They are just have a bad run of 4-6 week injuries that require juggling and a little bit of finger crossing that you don't need more roster spots.

 

[adambr2]

No, the personal agenda of jabbing mgmt every chance they can conjure up. I suspect the doctors told mgmt, we don't know how long this recovery will take.

Suggesting that the Packers could have handled the IR situation better is having a personal agenda of jabbing management at every chance?

You are really reaching here.