Packers hire Mike Pettine, defensive coordinator

[Pokerbrat2000]

I am, I would say 80% in agreement with you.... however, I do think that if Aaron Rodgers has one possible weakness it is in his intolerance with players that don't see and understand the field as well as he does. I think this may cause him to rely on players like Jordy a little too much. Every week I see quarterbacks with much less ability than Rodgers completing passes to, shall we say, far less cerebral receivers. Im just wondering if maybe Rodgers needs to learn to adjust to an occasional bad route as much as his receivers need to learn how to run them correctly . Now to try to make this make sense within the points being made about potentially keeping or losing Jordy and Cobb.... We are going to need to replace Jordy soon... the question is do we do it now to give Aaron time to adjust.... or do we do it later when Rodgers's carreer is closer to being over as well.

I am in agreement with you. So how do you proceed? Do you give Rodgers 2 out of 3 new guys to work with on the starting offense or do you do it bit by bit? Look how long it took for Rodgers to establish chemistry with players (including TE's) and with some players, it never developed. I really don't think you are going to change that about AR at this point and "force him" to change how he approaches the game. He plays a very cerebral style of football and to do that requires that the players around him to play similarly. IMO, that is going to be best achieved by his WR's being familiar targets. I can see bringing in a 1st or 2nd round pick and giving him a year or two to develop that chemistry with AR, but I think AR + Adams + ? +? could be a disaster.

 

[swhitset]

I am in agreement with you. So how do you proceed? Do you give Rodgers 2 out of 3 new guys to work with on the starting offense or do you do it bit by bit? Look how long it took for Rodgers to establish chemistry with players (including TE's) and with some players, it never developed. I really don't think you are going to change that about AR at this point and "force him" to change how he approaches the game. He plays a very cerebral style of football and to do that requires that the players around him to play similarly. IMO, that is going to be best achieved by his WR's being familiar targets. I can see bringing in a 1st or 2nd round pick and giving him a year or two to develop that chemistry with AR, but I think AR + Adams + ? +? could be a disaster.

I think a lot of that depends on what we see as the goal for next year. If we are legitimately chasing the Super Bowl .... then yes, it needs to be a gradual transition as you suggest. The other possibility is that next year is looked at as a "cap catchup and retooling year. Personally, as a fan... I say go for it and find a way to keep Jordy.

 

[GBkrzygrl]

Generally it's the greed factor, money, and sprinkle in a little ego.

If memory serves me correctly, when Daniels contract came up I thought I heard that he told his agent that he wanted to stay in GB and to get er done.?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If memory serves me correctly, when Daniels contract came up I thought I heard that he told his agent that he wanted to stay in GB and to get er done.?

you are correct, at least according to this.

http://www.packers.com/news-and-eve...reen-Bay/4924be41-f7dd-45c3-a96b-13afbcb7f830

 

[GBkrzygrl]

Per Packers.com, the offensive and defensive coaching staffs have been finalized. There are several names that I am not familiar with. We'll see.

I have never seen some many position coaches also carrying the title, "Coordinator". Is that fairly normal on other teams? What's the significance.

 

[GleefulGary]

Press conference with Pettine was outstanding.

Highly recommend all of you find a way to read/listen to it.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Per Packers.com, the offensive and defensive coaching staffs have been finalized. There are several names that I am not familiar with. We'll see.

I have never seen some many position coaches also carrying the title, "Coordinator". Is that fairly normal on other teams? What's the significance.

I doubt much significance other than a slight reshuffle of who does what as well as what each coach puts on their resume, placard and business cards.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Press conference with Pettine was outstanding.

Highly recommend all of you find a way to read/listen to it.

There is a link to it in this thread:

http://www.packershome.com/forum/posts/t26697findunread-Mike-Pettine-first-press-conference

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Pettine: "Playing great defense starts with fundamentals.... If our guys are prepared and play with great technique and great passion, we will be successful....scheme is worthless if you don't have that."

Sounds like he wants to remain a DC and not become a HC again.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Pettine: "Playing great defense starts with fundamentals.... If our guys are prepared and play with great technique and great passion, we will be successful....scheme is worthless if you don't have that."

Sounds like he wants to remain a DC and not become a HC again.

I like the idea of a "pass game coordinator" and "run game coordinator". The idea of communicating scheme and game plan with, for examples, safeties in one room, cornerbacks in another and ILBs in a third never made sense to me no matter how prevalent that approach may be.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Don't know anything about the specifics, but, off the top of my head, I don't remember many contracts being restructured - maybe as many as player-for-player trades. Is it complicated, will the players just not go for it, or what?

The Packers last restructured a contract with Hawk back in 2013. I think that it rarely happens as players have most of the leverage in those situations.

I will be shocked if 87 doesn't willingly restructure. He is in the twilight of his career and I can't see him starting over with another team at this point. I think he will either come back at a lower number or call it a day and spend his days on the farm.

I agree that it's reasonable to assume Nelson will agree to restructure his contract. I don't get the impression that Jordy wants to call it a career.

Even if that means adding years to the deal? Honest question.

Yes, as it allows the Packers to create additional cap space for the 2018 season.

I have never seen some many position coaches also carrying the title, "Coordinator". Is that fairly normal on other teams? What's the significance.

I don't know if it's normal with other teams but McCarthy explained the reasoning behind it being to allow coaches to have more responsibility.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I liked Pettine's response to being asked if he wants to eventually return to Head Coaching. He stated "No". That when he was a HC he didn't like not being involved in the "actual football part of it". Likening it to going from being a teacher to a principle and instead of 90% football and 10 % administrative, that roll flips as a H.C.

Looking forward to seeing this guy roll up his sleeves, getting dirty and being on the sidelines during games.

 

[gbgary]

i liked everything i heard from him yesterday.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I liked Pettine's response to being asked if he wants to eventually return to Head Coaching. He stated "No". That when he was a HC he didn't like not being involved in the "actual football part of it". Likening it to going from being a teacher to a principle and instead of 90% football and 10 % administrative, that roll flips as a H.C.
fil
Looking forward to seeing this guy roll up his sleeves, getting dirty and being on the sidelines during games.

In thinking about that 10/90 breakdown. I suppose it depends on how you define "actual football" and "administrative".

Obviously some HC time is spent with stuff we'd normally think of as administrative, such as engagement with the GM and personnel staff, engagement with the medical staff, engagement with the public via press conferences and radio/TV shows, and the like. Even then, personnel discussions are "actual football", are they not?

But you'd have to think Pettine's 90% DC "actual football" emphasizes a large chunk of direct player engagement in the areas discussed (fundamentals, technique, detail) whereas a big chunk of 90% HC "administrative" being devoted to coach engagement in matters of scheme, film review, game planning, player grading, and the like. I would think the distinction is more one of "direct actual football" vs. "abstract actual football".

If that is not the case, where a large chunk of that 90% HC time is tied up with administrative minutia once OTAs begin, such as reviewing a training staff recommendation for a new piece of equipment or getting embroiled in budget discussions, something is seriously wrong.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I didn't see where anybody asked Pettine whether he intends to be in the press box or the sidelines during games. There are pros and cons to each. From the press box you get a better view of what's happening on the field. From the sidelines, there's direct contact with the players, with engagement in the emotional side of the game.

Frankly, I grew very tired of Capers' "chess master" approach to the game which from my viewpoint was emotionally sanitary leading to a weak "culture of closing" games. If Petine's approach is going to be simpler and more aggressive as he indicated, I would think he'd be a sidelines guy.

 

[Mondio]

I didn't see where anybody asked Pettine whether he intends to be in the press box or the sidelines during games. There are pros and cons to each. From the press box you get a better view of what's happening on the field. From the sidelines, there's direct contact with the players, with engagement in the emotional side of the game.

Frankly, I grew very tired of Capers' "chess master" approach to the game which from my viewpoint was emotionally sanitary leading to a weak "culture of closing" games. If Petine's approach is going to be simpler and more aggressive as he indicated, I would think he'd be a sidelines guy.

It worked ok when we had a guy roaming the sidelines with fire in his eyes and could get into his players like Greene. When you're missing that element, i don't think it works well, but I don't see Dom as being the fire in the eyes sideline coach anyway.

 

[HardRightEdge]

It worked ok when we had a guy roaming the sidelines with fire in his eyes and could get into his players like Greene. When you're missing that element, i don't think it works well, but I don't see Dom as being the fire in the eyes sideline coach anyway.

I would not overlook emotional leadership from a fiery guy like Woodson. He was the heart and soul of the championship defense. Now? Daniels maybe. But frankly, D-Linemen don't know what's going on in the back 7 and their leadership is not going reach beyond his linemates. You need an emotional leader in that back 7. I don't see one. Matthews has always been more solo performer than the conductor. Maybe there's a guy who can fill that role who's been stifled, but I'm not seeing it. Randall has the personality for it, but not the performance to back it up, at least not yet. Maybe Martinez with the year 2 seasoning behind him.

 

[brandon2348]

I would not overlook emotional leadership from a fiery guy like Woodson. He was the heart and soul of the championship defense. Now? Daniels maybe. But frankly, D-Linemen don't know what's going on in the back 7 and their leadership is not going reach beyond his linemates. You need an emotional leader in that back 7. I don't see one. Matthews has always been more solo performer than the conductor. Maybe there's a guy who can fill that role who's been stifled, but I'm not seeing it. Randall has the personality for it, but not the performance to back it up, at least not yet. Maybe Martinez with the year 2 seasoning behind him.

I think they should target Demario Davis in free agency. He could provide some of what your talking about.

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[Pokerbrat2000]

I didn't see where anybody asked Pettine whether he intends to be in the press box or the sidelines during games. There are pros and cons to each. From the press box you get a better view of what's happening on the field. From the sidelines, there's direct contact with the players, with engagement in the emotional side of the game.

Frankly, I grew very tired of Capers' "chess master" approach to the game which from my viewpoint was emotionally sanitary leading to a weak "culture of closing" games. If Petine's approach is going to be simpler and more aggressive as he indicated, I would think he'd be a sidelines guy.

Not sure where I read it, but I am pretty sure when he was in N.Y. and Buffalo as the DC, he was always on the sideline. If you do a picture Google search on Pettine, can't find one picture of him in the press box, but most of him wearing Bills, Jets and Browns gear on the sideline.

I hope he does the same thing in GB. Sure, the press box gives the coach a better view of the action, but with today's technology, that information can easily be relaid down to him if desired. You can't rely personal contact with your players from a heated press box seat.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I think they should target Demario Davis in free agency. He could provide some of what your talking about.

He checks that box. Pettine would know him from his rookie year, however that's 6 years in the rear view mirror.

I don't know this player other than checking around for indications of value and fit.

As indicated earlier, the game is such that speed in off-the-line linebacks is essential. You can get away with one inside thumper if you complement him with speed. It's why the game is trending toward having one safety/ILB speed hybrid. It's why Burnett has played there. It's why Jones was drafted to take up where Burnett leaves off.

The clip you showed is from several years back when Ryan was still with the Jets. There's one play in downfield pursuit that evidenced his 4.61 / 4.52 Combine and Pro Day runs, respectively. He was the definition of a Combine freak, coupling that speed with the lifts, jumps and shuttle:

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=69560&draftyear=2012&genpos=OLB

He's also been remarkably durable, not missing a game in 6 seasons.

But we're 7 years on, and I could not find any recent clips other than search and destroy highlights in box play. And I'd like to see at least one recent instance of open field running and one that illustrates coverage technique.

With Martinez and Ryan, you have guys in the 4.7 speed range, both better against the run than in coverage. If Davis is not a bona fide coverage guy at this point I'm not seeing the value-add even if the leadership component is compelling.

Then there's price. In the year 5 second contract he went to Cleveland for 2 years / $8 million total. One report had him taking a pay cut in the trade out of Cleveland back to the Jets last season, where he evidently had his best season, statistically anyway. I'd think that 2 years for $8 million might be the starting point to get him out of New York, since it looks like he wants to be with the Jets and the Jets may feel the same.

Cap space is tight even in that range; one can always dump cap but then there's that new hole to fill.

So, what does the default line-up look like in those 75-80% nickel snaps with Davis in a hybrid 4-3?

Perry down with hand in the dirt, Matthews standing up, Martinez and Davis at LB. That implies you've given up on the idea of Jones as the new age hybrid linebacker or Burnett in that role if he's still around (which I kinda doubt.)

I'm having a very hard time finding high draft pick or cap capital for an ILB that is going to materially improve the prospects of ILB play if Jones can be effectively worked into the mix. Needs are several, cap is limited.

Jones looked terrible in zone coverages last season, and his play anticipation was not very good neutralizing his speed. Will he blossom in a simpler and more aggressive approach? Good question. At least to some degree I would suppose.

 

[SoonerPack]

I liked Pettine's response to being asked if he wants to eventually return to Head Coaching. He stated "No". That when he was a HC he didn't like not being involved in the "actual football part of it". Likening it to going from being a teacher to a principle and instead of 90% football and 10 % administrative, that roll flips as a H.C.

Looking forward to seeing this guy roll up his sleeves, getting dirty and being on the sidelines during games.

Amen, bro! I liked pretty much everything I heard yesterday with MP's comments being near the very top. Seems very no-nonsense and a guy that is going to find a way to rehab the unit that has kept us from titles for years now. I honestly beleive him when he says he is going to craft his strategy to the guys he has and their strengths. My hope is Gute can bring in some impact guys via both the draft and FA. We've seen in recent years how one off-season can have a profound impact on a team and more specifically, a defensive unit.

 

[GBkrzygrl]

Pettine: "Playing great defense starts with fundamentals.... If our guys are prepared and play with great technique and great passion, we will be successful....scheme is worthless if you don't have that."

I think he mention 'passion' several times in the PC. Sounds like he wants them to play like they want to be there and mean it.

 

[GBkrzygrl]

I found his comments about Matthews interesting. He said that he made some really good plays and got some sacks playing inside. I wouldn't be surprised to seeing them move Matthews around but playing a little more inside than he used to.

 

[brandon2348]

He checks that box. Pettine would know him from his rookie year, however that's 6 years in the rear view mirror.

I don't know this player other than checking around for indications of value and fit.

As indicated earlier, the game is such that speed in off-the-line linebacks is essential. You can get away with one inside thumper if you complement him with speed. It's why the game is trending toward having one safety/ILB speed hybrid. It's why Burnett has played there. It's why Jones was drafted to take up where Burnett leaves off.

The clip you showed is from several years back when Ryan was still with the Jets. There's one play in downfield pursuit that evidenced his 4.61 / 4.52 Combine and Pro Day runs, respectively. He was the definition of a Combine freak, coupling that speed with the lifts, jumps and shuttle:

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=69560&draftyear=2012&genpos=OLB

He's also been remarkably durable, not missing a game in 6 seasons.

But we're 7 years on, and I could not find any recent clips other than search and destroy highlights in box play. And I'd like to see at least one recent instance of open field running and one that illustrates coverage technique.

With Martinez and Ryan, you have guys in the 4.7 speed range, both better against the run than in coverage. If Davis is not a bona fide coverage guy at this point I'm not seeing the value-add even if the leadership component is compelling.

Then there's price. In the year 5 second contract he went to Cleveland for 2 years / $8 million total. One report had him taking a pay cut in the trade out of Cleveland back to the Jets last season, where he evidently had his best season, statistically anyway. I'd think that 2 years for $8 million might be the starting point to get him out of New York, since it looks like he wants to be with the Jets and the Jets may feel the same.

Cap space is tight even in that range; one can always dump cap but then there's that new hole to fill.

So, what does the default line-up look like in those 75-80% nickel snaps with Davis in a hybrid 4-3?

Perry down with hand in the dirt, Matthews standing up, Martinez and Davis at LB. That implies you've given up on the idea of Jones as the new age hybrid linebacker or Burnett in that role if he's still around (which I kinda doubt.)

I'm having a very hard time finding high draft pick or cap capital for an ILB that is going to materially improve the prospects of ILB play if Jones can be effectively worked into the mix. Needs are several, cap is limited.

Jones looked terrible in zone coverages last season, and his play anticipation was not very good neutralizing his speed. Will he blossom in a simpler and more aggressive approach? Good question. At least to some degree I would suppose.

Demario had over 100 tackles last year and 5 sacks. He is prospect no. 2 in the link that gives more info. This guy is an upgrade all the way around. I saw him ball out against the Bills on a Thursday Night game. He just turned 29 so a 2 year deal at around 10 mill I'm thinking. The jets are in a youth movement so I think there is a good chance he is available. Bobby Wagner will be 28 this year and he is still fast as heck. He falls off the Rex Ryan, Pettine tree so maybe something happens here.

https://t.co/AWtSTMFrFq?share=other

Yes, I'm expecting a jump from Jones. I think he belongs closer to LOS and we all know you can never have too much speed in the middle.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I found his comments about Matthews interesting. He said that he made some really good plays and got some sacks playing inside. I wouldn't be surprised to seeing them move Matthews around but playing a little more inside than he used to.

Unfortunately Matthews isn't a good player when being lined up inside though.