Packers don’t want to use franchise tag on Jermichael Finley

[Bagadeez04]

There is merit to your question. Some GMs would certainly do it. Getting extra draft picks would intrigue TT. However, the downside is possibly getting stuck with Flynn and overpaying for a backup QB. I've read about people saying that TT could strike a deal, then tag him, then trade him. The problem is that the only certainty in that is the tag. Deals can and do fall through and it's a risk that I'm not sure TT would take. He's risk adverse in free agency, and that probably isn't just on the "getting" end but on the releasing end too.

Yea I know...more than likely it won't happen, but if they don't tag Finley I think it would be an interesting couple of months.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

So does Finley. BTW, I'll remind you he is one year removed from knee surgery and was pretty much thrown right in the fire. Guys are rarely full speed in the first year after a knee injury. McCarthy said the primary goal with him was to get him through the season healthy. In fact, read it for yourself: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/packers.html

Scroll down where it says "McCarthy wraps up 2011 season". Does that sound to you like a guy who has a problem with his TE? Pay particular attention to the comments about work ethic and self-criticism.

I'm not concerned with Finley's work ethic and self-criticism. I'm concerned with his production. Finley disappears during games. Not to mention, he had the second most drops of any play in the entire NFL last season. Did his 2010 knee injury affect his hands?

I'm not saying I don't like Finley or wishes he's let go. I would love for Finley to tear the league up for the next 8 years as a Packer. Myself, and apparently a number of other posters, are tired of the constant talking and little production.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

As much as I like Flynn, I just don't see a huge bidding war over a guy with 2 starts. I could be wrong, but I just don't see anyone giving up draft picks to get first dibs on him. I also don't see TT even considering it until Wells and Finley are under contract.

That could be true. The Cardinals gave up a boatload for Kolb... The Chiefs gave up a bunch for Cassel... The Texans gave up two second rounders for Schaub. I'm just basing my judgement off of history.

 

[Southpaw]

That could be true. The Cardinals gave up a boatload for Kolb... The Chiefs gave up a bunch for Cassel... The Texans gave up two second rounders for Schaub. I'm just basing my judgement off of history.

History would also point to Green Bay as being probably the premier NFL organization that churns out solid starting Quarterbacks.

I don't expect Flynn to be a world beater with another NFL team unless they stack it with talented players. But I expect him to do well

What people think that is worth is anybody's guess. But I do know that the mentality in the NFL is "win now" nobody wants to have to wait 3 seasons until they start to become relevant. They want immediate success and I think taking a guy like Flynn over a QB like RG3 is probably a better idea.

 

[GreenBlood]

That could be true. The Cardinals gave up a boatload for Kolb... The Chiefs gave up a bunch for Cassel... The Texans gave up two second rounders for Schaub. I'm just basing my judgement off of history.

Those guys all had a much larger body of work to judge by though. With Flynn, we're talking about two games. Hey, I'd be tickled pink if TT could get two or more draft picks for him, but my gut tells me it's not going to happen. Not all of those guys were free agents either.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

Those guys all had a much larger body of work to judge by though. With Flynn, we're talking about two games. Hey, I'd be tickled pink if TT could get two or more draft picks for him, but my gut tells me it's not going to happen. Not all of those guys were free agents either.

What about Matt Hasselbeck?

 

[GreenBlood]

I'm not concerned with Finley's work ethic and self-criticism. I'm concerned with his production. Finley disappears during games.

He does? How do you know? Just because Rodgers might not throw him the ball for 2 or 3 quarters doesn't mean he isn't doing his job. Rodgers doesn't play favorites with his targets and if he has Jordy or Greg open deep for 35 yards, he's not going to throw the 15 yarder over the middle to Finley just because some people think he has to match some other tight end's stats on some other team. Regardless of the outcome, teams have to account for him on every single play.

Not to mention, he had the second most drops of any play in the entire NFL last season. Did his 2010 knee injury affect his hands?

YES. His knee injury most certainly affected his hands, along with the lockout. He hadn't played since early October 2010 and he had no OTA's or mini camps to get himself back on track. OTAs and mini camps involve a lot of position specific drills and workouts on specific skills. Often you'll have a day of mini camp where your receivers do nothing but run routes or catch hard throws from the jugs machines. They don't have as much time to focus on those specific things in training camp. Training camp is about teaching the team their playbooks and evaluating the roster. Drops were not a problem for him except for the KC game and the last game.

I would love for Finley to tear the league up for the next 8 years as a Packer. Myself, and apparently a number of other posters, are tired of the constant talking and little production.

What do you consider adequate production for a Packer TE then? Should he be the leading receiver ahead of Jennings and Nelson? Does he have to have a minimum of 80 catches to make you happy? What's the acceptable minimum for TDs? 10? 12? Does have to have a catch on every possession? Is a minimum of 4 catches per game enough? How many yards in a game is acceptable?

Here's the bottom line. He had 50+ catches, 700+ yards and 8 TDs. No other Packer TE has EVER done that. NONE. The only one that even came close was Chmura in 1995. Sounds to me like you're not happy because he's not putting up WR numbers. He's not a WR.

 

[GreenBlood]

What about Matt Hasselbeck?

We didn't tag him.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

We didn't tag him.

I know that. I'm talking how trading a QB with limited NFL film.

 

[GreenBlood]

I know that. I'm talking how trading a QB with limited NFL film.

My bad.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

He does? How do you know? Just because Rodgers might not throw him the ball for 2 or 3 quarters doesn't mean he isn't doing his job. Rodgers doesn't play favorites with his targets and if he has Jordy or Greg open deep for 35 yards, he's not going to throw the 15 yarder over the middle to Finley just because some people think he has to match some other tight end's stats on some other team. Regardless of the outcome, teams have to account for him on every single play.



YES. His knee injury most certainly affected his hands, along with the lockout. He hadn't played since early October 2010 and he had no OTA's or mini camps to get himself back on track. OTAs and mini camps involve a lot of position specific drills and workouts on specific skills. Often you'll have a day of mini camp where your receivers do nothing but run routes or catch hard throws from the jugs machines. They don't have as much time to focus on those specific things in training camp. Training camp is about teaching the team their playbooks and evaluating the roster. Drops were not a problem for him except for the KC game and the last game.



What do you consider adequate production for a Packer TE then? Should he be the leading receiver ahead of Jennings and Nelson? Does he have to have a minimum of 80 catches to make you happy? What's the acceptable minimum for TDs? 10? 12? Does have to have a catch on every possession? Is a minimum of 4 catches per game enough? How many yards in a game is acceptable?

Here's the bottom line. He had 50+ catches, 700+ yards and 8 TDs. No other Packer TE has EVER done that. NONE. The only one that even came close was Chmura in 1995. Sounds to me like you're not happy because he's not putting up WR numbers. He's not a WR.

Each point you made has severe holes in it.

1) So you're telling me that Finley was only open on plays when somebody else was open? Finley disappeared during games because everybody else was so open that Rodgers had to throw it somewhere else?
1B) I know he disappears during games because you'll go two full quarters without hearing his name. That is disappearing in a game. Not catching a pass for a prolonged period of time is disappearing.

2) Even though the guy didn't play for a year and had limited offseason practice, you don't forget how to catch a football. He's been catching passes his entire life. A knee injury doesn't make a person forget how to catch. 12+ drops is inexcusable.

3) Yes, he had better numbers this year than any Packer TE ever... He's also talked more than any Packers' TE ever. I don't just him on numbers. Not dropping passes would make be "acceptable". Getting open on third down would be "acceptable". Not tweeting YOTTO after dropping two balls in a game would be "acceptable".

 

[GreenBlood]

1) So you're telling me that Finley was only open on plays when somebody else was open? Finley disappeared during games because everybody else was so open that Rodgers had to throw it somewhere else?

Are you telling me Rodgers has to throw it to him every time he's open?

1B) I know he disappears during games because you'll go two full quarters without hearing his name. That is disappearing in a game. Not catching a pass for a prolonged period of time is disappearing.

Great! Now we're getting somewhere. You're saying he must not go more than two quarters without a catch or he's "disappearing." (BTW, you do know that everyone else on the team has had 2 + quarter stretches without catching a ball, right?) Now how many catches per game are acceptable to you?

2) Even though the guy didn't play for a year and had limited offseason practice, you don't forget how to catch a football. He's been catching passes his entire life. A knee injury doesn't make a person forget how to catch. 12+ drops is inexcusable.

You think it's that easy, huh? Catching an NFL pass is a SKILL. Skills need to be maintained through practice and repetition. You think catching a 50+ MPH pass is just something you go out and do?

3) Yes, he had better numbers this year than any Packer TE ever... He's also talked more than any Packers' TE ever.

You don't remember Keith Jackson too well, do you? Or Tyrone Davis? BTW, give me specific examples of all this talking and exactly how it hurt the 15-1 Packers.

Not dropping passes would make be "acceptable". Getting open on third down would be "acceptable". Not tweeting YOTTO after dropping two balls in a game would be "acceptable".

First of all, EVERYONE drops passes. Second, why should anyone give a crap what he says on Twitter? I you don't like what he has to say, DON'T FOLLOW HIM. As long as he's not calling out teammates or coaches, what's the problem? Maybe that's how he gets himself pumped up for games. I personally don't care. Know why? Because he puts in the work and is his own worst critic. Again, I will defer to Mike McCarthy's judgment regarding Finley. He knows Fin far better than you or I, and MM wants him on the team... unquestionably so. I have yet to see where MM or TT or AR or anyone else has had a problem with him. If you can produce evidence that they want him gone, produce it or quit making the claim.

BTW, God only knows what Paul Hornung and Max McGee might have "tweeted" if it existed 50 years ago. Hornung was arguably the most shameless self-promoter in Packer history.

 

[Southpaw]

He does? How do you know? Just because Rodgers might not throw him the ball for 2 or 3 quarters doesn't mean he isn't doing his job.

This. If Finley is getting doubled, he's doing his job. It frees up Greg, Jordy and others to make plays.

People don't seem to understand what a receiving tight end can do for your offense, even if they don't catch 8 passes a game.

 

[GreenBlood]

A knee injury doesn't make a person forget how to catch. 12+ drops is inexcusable.

Sorry, I missed one. At least get your facts straight when you berate a player. According to Stats, Inc. he had 11 drops, not "12+".

 

[ExpatPacker]

We can't just throw out everybody that didn't perform up to snuff this season. Finley did not play up to expectations, but that doesn't mean he's a wash or that he did nothing. He is dangerous and other teams have to include him in their defense strategy.

He is young and his chances for improvement are there, and if he does start making the catches again then he will be a top 5 TE. Considering what else we have to take care of in the offseason, taking a chance on him is well worth it.

 

[FrankRizzo]

Is Finley fast anymore?

I ask that because in 09, I remember him getting behind guys, whether it was inside on the seem routes, or outside.
This year, he rarely was open like that.... seemed everytime Rodgers would throw to J-Mike on those mini-posts, seam routes, he was barely or not even open and the passes would have to be total pinpointers, or J-Mike would get just nailed by a safety/LB looking for it.

Rodgers almost got his head taken off twice, early, in that Giants game.

All year long I wondered where Finley's speed was.

 

[El Guapo]

I'd say that it's a problem with the way that McCarthy uses Finley. IMO, a tight end is primarily in place to either block or catch short-to-sometimes-mid-range passes. The tight end should be essentially the outlet option similar to the RB in the flats. However, with Finley's speed and physical attributes, McCarthy often uses him more as a wide receiver and even has him lining up on the outside. This takes away a short-yardage option for the QB - albeit giving him another downfield option.

I don't think that Finley's speed is gone, it's more that he's being used more in a speed position (WR) instead of where his speed is a mismatch against linebackers and dropping D-linemen.

 

[Southpaw]

Is Finley fast anymore?

I ask that because in 09, I remember him getting behind guys, whether it was inside on the seem routes, or outside.
This year, he rarely was open like that.... seemed everytime Rodgers would throw to J-Mike on those mini-posts, seam routes, he was barely or not even open and the passes would have to be total pinpointers, or J-Mike would get just nailed by a safety/LB looking for it.

Rodgers almost got his head taken off twice, early, in that Giants game.

All year long I wondered where Finley's speed was.

Well he did have a knee injury. I'm not sure he's slowed down, but if he did, it's easy to see why. As an athlete when you have a knee injury you can't do jack **** but sit around and try to heal. Getting slower, weaker and rusty. It happens. No much you can do about it either.

A good offseason and OTA's and Finley will be back on top of his game. Even this season he showed some flashes of potential. He'll be our Rob Gronkowski soon enough.

 

[GreenBlood]

Is Finley fast anymore?

I ask that because in 09, I remember him getting behind guys, whether it was inside on the seem routes, or outside.
This year, he rarely was open like that.... seemed everytime Rodgers would throw to J-Mike on those mini-posts, seam routes, he was barely or not even open and the passes would have to be total pinpointers, or J-Mike would get just nailed by a safety/LB looking for it.

Rodgers almost got his head taken off twice, early, in that Giants game.

All year long I wondered where Finley's speed was.

Finley had his knee rebuilt last year. A few weeks later they had to go back in because of a staph infection. Historically, guys don't have 100% of their speed back in the first year. He'll be fine.

 

[GreenBlood]

He'll be our Rob Gronkowski soon enough.

Lord I hope not. If you want to talk about an idiot, he's it. BTW, we don't need a TE who gets 15 TDs. Pats only have 2 other guys to throw to.

 

[Southpaw]

Lord I hope not. If you want to talk about an idiot, he's it. BTW, we don't need a TE who gets 15 TDs. Pats only have 2 other guys to throw to.

He's productive. That's all that matters.

 

[PFanCan]

Is Finley fast anymore?

I had noticed the same, Frank, and was wondering myself. As others pointed out, there is no doubt that Finley still was recovering from his knee injury. At one year, it is not 100%. Hopefully, by the start of next season and after a full OTA regiment, his injury will be long forgotten.

But, the difference was noticable.

However, the fact that the Giants had highlighted the need to "Shut down #88" prior to the last game is enough evidence to me that Finley remains as important as ever to the Packer offense. Though I have been disappointed that he has not performed at a Pro-Bowl level and made key drops along the way, he still had excellent production for a TE.

Along with Wells, Finley is a MUST HAVE for next season. Get 'er done, Ted.

 

[bozz_2006]

As frustrated as i had been with Finley, I agree that re-signing him needs to be a top priority.

 

[Croak]

As frustrated as i had been with Finley, I agree that re-signing him needs to be a top priority.

I'm not sure I agree. I think Wells is the top priority. We've got receivers and while Finley is a fair receiver, he hasn't lived up to the hype in my eyes. I'm not sure he ever will. But that's just my opinion.

 

[bozz_2006]

A top priority. Didn't say "the" top priority.