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Packers biggest need

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by ivo610, Jan 13, 2013.

  1. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    He can speed rush and he can bull rush, but his hands are useless right now, no tech whatsoever. He has the speed to cover TE, but gets completely lost in coverage. Why bother having him cover, play to your player's strengths.
     
  2. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    He has to be able to cover because he's a 3-4 OLB. The Packers can't drop CM3 into coverage and not let him rush the passer. The Packers also can't have CM3 and Perry both rush the passer on every play. Having a second legit rush option will make the opposing offense have to account for both men. Either guy should be able to rush the passer or cover on either play.
     
  3. JacobInFlorida

    JacobInFlorida Cheesehead

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    #1 We have to study the injury situation. HAVE to.
    It's an incredibly physical game and every team has a year here and there where injuries decimate the team, but we've had 3 years in a row where injuries have a played a major role. Figure that out and we save ourselves a lot of the other headaches.

    #2 We have to get better up the middle on both sides of the ball.
    The reason we can't run the ball is because our guards(Lang more so than Sitton) and center are not good. Go back and watch a lot of the games. When you have a hat on a hat, you have to be able to run for large chunks of yards. We have too many plays where the interior lineman aren't able to execute their 1 on 1 and the RB is tackled for 1 or 2 yards on plays where the numbers are in our favor. That's why teams are sitting back in 2 high. Also in pass pro, we're giving up way too much push from the interior. Rodgers was affected by this in virtually every game and it showed in his composure in the pocket. You can deal with pressure off the edge, but from the middle really disrupts things.

    Raji has not been the plug we need at NT in a 3-4. I think 3-4 is the way to go, but we at least need a run stuffer to platoon with Raji, who is a better pass rusher. If you combine that situation with a healthy Mike Neal(I know) and Perry, the pass rush will drastically improve. If a run stuffer is found and Bishop is healthy, I think the run defense would be much improved up the middle as well.

    I honestly believe if you fix those 2 areas, we are in great shape.

    As far as moves go:
    I believe Jennings is off to a new team, because he's interested in getting paid the max he can.

    Driver is gone cause as much as I like him, there's just no room for him any more.

    Woodson might be back if he doesn't retire(doesn't appear he will), but I don't believe it will be at his current price.

    Finley I'm on the fence about. Just not sure where his head is at. He seemed to focus a little more at the end of the season to prove his worth and it showed. $8 million is a lot IMO for 1 year for Finley and I'm not sure the Packers ever really planned on paying it. We really have no replacement that brings what he can do though. Not sure what TT will do here.

    Hawk has gotta be gone or restructured. We're overpaying big time for his talents.

    I would consider trying to get James Jones signed for a 3 year deal or so. However, I think he's gonna want to try out free agency after having such a good year.

    A Matthews deal should be coming as well.

    Pickett could be a candidate to get cut if they keep a Finley or want to front load some new deals for Matthews or Jones or maybe even a deal to keep Jennings. He had a solid year but 5.4 mil is a lot for a guy that is old and playing a position that's brutal on the body.

    Saturday will retire.

    Shields will be kept. I thought Shields was in a pivotal year. He was bad last year after a really good 2010. This year he seemed to commit and improve and is an important piece. I think we could see a multi year deal worked out soon.

    Walden and Jones will be brought back for cheap depth.

    For the draft we need to stay the course. Get the best player we can in each round, not just need.
     
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  4. melvin dangerr

    melvin dangerr Cheesehead

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    Thats hard to say, the way the 9ers Bishop would have not made a big impact
     
  5. melvin dangerr

    melvin dangerr Cheesehead

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    Packer Mngmt should have a spy in there..
     
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  6. BorderRivals.com

    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

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    I'm surprised at all the hate for the defensive backfield. Yes, Tramon had a rough patch recently and it's worth debating whether he's a true no. 1. But, combined with Shields - who really emerged - Hayward (who is already rated one of the best cover corners in the league), and House, we have plenty of depth at CB. The real issue back there is the second Safety position opposite Burnett. We need a ballhawk and sure tackler. Burnett has tried to be that, but he just isn't built for that. It's a shame we lost Collins.

    Also, I find it funny the o-line is still getting blasted. Against one of the elite defenses, this line gave up a total of 1 sack, and that was only because Saturday stepped in for two plays while Sitton's shoe was off. Otherwise, they held up tremendously against the Smith Bros. and Brooks. Bulaga is an above average RT, a near Pro Bowler last season. Sitton and Lang are average to slightly above average and the LT position will have a good battle with Newhouse and Sherrod. And EDS really seemed to hold up well when he took over for Saturday. They could be better run blockers, but you started to see them have success when DuJuan was back there, which leads to a discussion on whether our RB's weren't the bigger issue. I'm not saying we have an elite offensive line like SF, but I also think it started to shape up well at the end and played very well in a tough environment.
     
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  7. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    I agree. I'm stunned how much of a difference that two defensive players made for this team (Cullen Jenkins, Nick Collins), but it sure seems to be the case. We sorely need that pass rushing D-lineman back, and our answers to safety may be internal yet, but Collins was no doubt a devastating loss.

    I think Worthy may still be the answer to Jenkins, but we're going to need to see more.
     
  8. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Our corner situation is like an offense having a bunch of #2 and #3 WRs but no #1. You're right we have depth, but no true corner. It's a major problem.
     
  9. BorderRivals.com

    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

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    No doubt Tramon had a terrible end to his season. But, let's not forget, he shut down Brandon Marshall and limited Megatron's impact in both games, particularly the second game. And we all know how instrumental he was to our 2010 SB run. He certainly regressed some this season. But I don't believe he's this huge liability some are making him out to be.
     
  10. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Megatron had 143 and 118 in the games against Tramon. Reggie Wayne had a career day against him.

    This is a division with 2 all pro WRs. This isnt the division to lack a #1 corner.
     
  11. BorderRivals.com

    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

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    This was part of a discussion at the time - and I don't want to spend the time to find it now. But, Megatron's stats from game 2 were largely inflated from garbage time yards. But, up to that point, Tramon limited him to 90-something yards and batted down several balls over the course of the game - which is a success. I had thought the first game yardage total wasn't that high. In any event, 3 out of 4 games (2 against Marshall) is a success in this division in my mind.

    As far as Wayne, you're right. He torched us. I feel like we had Woodson on him a fair amount too for some reason. I distinctly remember Woodson getting a PI called against him on a deep pass that Wayne still plucked with his one free hand.

    In any event, Tramon isn't an elite no. 1 CB - that much we can agree upon. But I'm not ready to bail on him as a more than serviceable no. 1 CB. If we can find an upgrade, that'd be great. But elite no. 1 CB's are hard to find and cost a ton. Considering how much money we have to spend in the next couple years on our stars, and other starters - like Shields - Tramon is probably our best and most affordable option at this point.
     
  12. bear7625

    bear7625 Cheesehead

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    Offence: I still think the bigest problem is the O-line. We go over this every year and have the same problems regardless of the personal. I posted years ago that zone blocking wasn't the way to go with players we have and O-line coach. Need to replace Campen.

    Defence: Dont want to put all the blame on Capers. We have talent, but need a stronger leader to step up and take charge. Other than Mathews, no fire or pride.
     
  13. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    Here would be my offseason coaching changes:

    Offense: MM steps back from acting essentially both as HC and OC. Does more delegating this next year and working with position coaches, scouts, and TT in player development. Get rid of Campen, and hire an offensive line coach that specializes in ZBS. Give Clements total control of the offense -- but the offense needs to improve in 2013 for him to keep that job.

    Defense: Get rid of Capers. There are a million different alternative solutions. They could consider someone like Crennel, who is historically a much better coordinator than coach. They could also consider an internal option such as Greene.

    I would also hire a new strength and conditioning team. I am not even guaranteeing that all the injuries haven't been more than just bad luck, but with this long of stretch now, they simply have to try something different.
     
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  14. NC_Cheese_Fan_100

    NC_Cheese_Fan_100 Cheesehead

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    If the packers remain in a 3-4 they have to pickup a couple of large physical DE's. Especially if Pickett doesn't return. The 49ers ran at Neal and Wilson, and to a lesser extent Daniels, and their offensive line manhandled them. The DE's weren't able to collapse or push the pocket and they weren't being double teamed either. Raji seemed to draw a lot of double teams and I think Pickett drew some too. There just wasn't much pressure at all on Kaepernick and the offensive line was able to open really large lanes for him to run and throw. Even with a 5 man front, which the defense seemed to use a lot in the first half, they couldn't get much pressure on him. If the packers can pickup a DE that can draw double teams, in conjunction with Raji, that should really help the OLB's get good situations to pressure the passer and make plays in the backfield.

    I think they also need another offensive lineman, if nothing else for depth, but I often wonder how much of the pass protection issues the Packers have are related to play calling. Not only the lack of rushing, but pass plays that take too long to develop. On that 3rd & 7 where Rogers threw the interception, there weren't any receivers in the flat, they had all gone deep. They needed 7 yards for a first down to sustain the drive and there were no receivers at the first down marker that I saw. Seems like the Packers are too adamant about going for deep passes and not taking what the defense gives them. No matter how good it is, pass protection will break down if the quarter back has the ball for too long. If the packers had been able to sustain some of their drives against the 49ers it would have made a big difference in the game. The defense was totally winded by the 4th quarter.
     
  15. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    Regarding our OL:

    EDS has proven to be a decent run-blocker. He could work as our starting C next year. However I still think that we need to spend a high draft pick on either a C/G or an OT. Newhouse is decent but not great. Bulaga we hope returns to form. Sherrod is anybody's guess as to what he will be like next year.

    Regarding our Secondary:

    Going after a shut-down CB when we have Heyward, Shields and House seems like a waste. Getting a top safety who is fast and physical would be more important. McMillan and MJ Jennings and Burnett...some potential but nothing great there.

    Regarding our front 7:

    We are weak up the middle. Raji is on and off. Pickett is good but is getting old. Hawk had a decent season but he's slow. Hopefully Bishop returns to form. But they're not fast and physical enough.
     
  16. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Campen has already started moving us to PMB.

    Here is the actual issue, Matthews and Bishop are our only tone setters, yes Raji and Woodson step up and get a light every now and again, but really we have nobody. Jenkins and Collins did that for us. Helped that they also were do it all players, but I guarantee you, if we had somebody like Ray Lewis or Vince Wilfork who play with energy, heart, and soul, who make playing football fun, we would be a completely different team. How often do you see those guys having fun, like we did in XLV?
     
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  17. PackFanNChiTown

    PackFanNChiTown Bear Fan's Bane

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    The problem with that is we need Tramon to be good in the last 2 out of three games. It's fine that he's good against the Titans, Jags, etc. but we need him to be elite against the other elite teams in the NFC. If he can't match up against Crabtree in the divisional round then frankly he's not much use to us IMHO.

    Same goes for the stats against the pass. What would the stats be if you ran them only against the Giants, SF, (both games), New Orleans, (yes I still include them), Bears, Vikings, Colts, probably the Rams and Lions I wonder? If we're not #2 against the pass in those games then it doesn't do us much good to have the numbers against Tennessee and the other weaker teams "padding" the stats.
     
  18. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    Well, Tramon's problem in the last regular season game wasn't in pass coverage but in tackling. I agree he's no longer a #1 corner, but getting rid of him still makes us worse, not better.

    I agree he had a poor game against Crabtree, but he also had some good games against Marshall, Megatron, etc. There's not many CB's that can match up well against those receivers. When Tramon gets help, he's still fine in coverage.

    Shields and Tramon are still our best options outside. We have good corners and still have youth there on our side. Any one of Shields, Hayward, and House could still end up emerging as a #1 corner. Another top corner would be a luxury at this point, not a need. We need to worry about our needs first to get back to being a championship caliber team. Fix that interior pass rush and the corners will look a lot better.
     
  19. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    But our defensive line doesn't rush the passer, it plays the run.
     
  20. PackFanNChiTown

    PackFanNChiTown Bear Fan's Bane

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    Not saying we get rid of him, that would be a mistake. I am fully open to drafting some CBs that can challenge him better though.

    Do you guys think the problems with tackling stem from the new CBA not requiring as much contact in practices?
     
  21. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    I was wrong, my bad, looked it up and it's 1.6 mil for every year left on Hawk
     
  22. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    I'm going to just throw out a name, but I'd love to make a run at Manny Lawson again. He's far superior to Walden in both run defense and pass coverage -- two things sorely lacking from our current LB corps.

    He doesn't put up the glamorous stats and I don't expect him to be expensive, but he seems like a really good fit.
     
  23. melvin dangerr

    melvin dangerr Cheesehead

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    I've been a big critic J Finley, but I would not trade him right now, I think another look at him as that big TE could help when we lose a Jennings, and he could develop into a good blocking TE, for a developing RB.
     
  24. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    No one would give us anything for finley
     
  25. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    I think the tackling or lack there of, comes from a style and attitude of big hits on players and not the wrap up and bring them down style they learned
     

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