Packer Free Agents: What should the Packers do? Track Their Decisions

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GreenNGold_81

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Matthews isn't a decent inside linebacker aside of rushing the passer from there.

That is just wrong.

"It bears pointing out that in Matthews’ one full season playing primarily inside linebacker, the Packers ranked No. 12 in points allowed and No. 7 in defensive passer rating. After the Packers moved him inside for the final eight games in 2014, they ranked Nos. 9 and 12.

That’s not big-time NFL defense, but it’s a lot better than 2016 (Nos. 21 and 26) and last season (Nos. 26 and 31). I’m not suggesting the difference is all because of Matthews playing inside. But it’s hard to dismiss it as a factor. He’s a better player in that role at this point in his career. He’s just not as explosive a rusher on the edge as he used to be, and he has more of an impact on the game when he lines up inside. "

source: https://www.packersnews.com/story/s...need-clay-matthews-playing-inside/1070406001/
 

Dantés

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That is just wrong.

"It bears pointing out that in Matthews’ one full season playing primarily inside linebacker, the Packers ranked No. 12 in points allowed and No. 7 in defensive passer rating. After the Packers moved him inside for the final eight games in 2014, they ranked Nos. 9 and 12.

That’s not big-time NFL defense, but it’s a lot better than 2016 (Nos. 21 and 26) and last season (Nos. 26 and 31). I’m not suggesting the difference is all because of Matthews playing inside. But it’s hard to dismiss it as a factor. He’s a better player in that role at this point in his career. He’s just not as explosive a rusher on the edge as he used to be, and he has more of an impact on the game when he lines up inside. "

source: https://www.packersnews.com/story/s...need-clay-matthews-playing-inside/1070406001/

But even if we assume that him playing inside was a major factor in the improvement, you're still talking about a version of Matthews that was 4 years younger playing on a team that did not have Blake Martinez-- who is clearly way better at playing inside linebacker than a 33 year old position convert. And I can't see them playing side by side-- I think they fill basically the same role in the defense.
 

GreenNGold_81

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But even if we assume that him playing inside was a major factor in the improvement, you're still talking about a version of Matthews that was 4 years younger playing on a team that did not have Blake Martinez-- who is clearly way better at playing inside linebacker than a 33 year old position convert. And I can't see them playing side by side-- I think they fill basically the same role in the defense.

You are completely missing my point. I'm saying I agree with signing Matthews to a team friendly deal (obviously only if he takes a big pay cut) because I think he's valuable depth. I'm not saying I want him as a starter at ILB. I think his proven versatility is valuable, and the last time we got rid of a very versatile player we have had to spend considerable draft capital to replace his loss (Hyde).
 

Dantés

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You are completely missing my point. I'm saying I agree with signing Matthews to a team friendly deal (obviously only if he takes a big pay cut) because I think he's valuable depth. I'm not saying I want him as a starter at ILB. I think his proven versatility is valuable, and the last time we got rid of a very versatile player we have had to spend considerable draft capital to replace his loss (Hyde).

I agree in that I now better understand your point, but I still think they should let Matthews leave. I don't think the comparison to Hyde holds up. They should have kept him and his versatility was a plus, but he was 26 years old and entering his prime. Matthews will be 33 and is already in the midst of a steady decline.
 

GreenNGold_81

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I agree in that I now better understand your point, but I still think they should let Matthews leave. I don't think the comparison to Hyde holds up. They should have kept him and his versatility was a plus, but he was 26 years old and entering his prime. Matthews will be 33 and is already in the midst of a steady decline.

I agree he's not the player he was - I do think there is some value in keeping franchise players around when they're not totally done. Suggs is a good example. 3 years older than Clay, usually produces on the field. Leader, I assume, in the dressing room. He makes about 5 million a season.

What is our plan at OLB otherwise? Perry is probably back next year given that cutting him doesn't save us much cap. We're probably going with OLB early in the draft. Perry/Rookie/Fakrell/Gilbert doesn't really give me much confidence. Clowney, Ford, Smith are the only FA's who have had more sacks than Clay (this year) and will command massive salaries.

Perry/Clay/Fakrell/Rookie/Gilbert would be a bit stronger crew IMO.
 

Dantés

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I agree he's not the player he was - I do think there is some value in keeping franchise players around when they're not totally done. Suggs is a good example. 3 years older than Clay, usually produces on the field. Leader, I assume, in the dressing room. He makes about 5 million a season.

What is our plan at OLB otherwise? Perry is probably back next year given that cutting him doesn't save us much cap. We're probably going with OLB early in the draft. Perry/Rookie/Fakrell/Gilbert doesn't really give me much confidence. Clowney, Ford, Smith are the only FA's who have had more sacks than Clay (this year) and will command massive salaries.

Perry/Clay/Fakrell/Rookie/Gilbert would be a bit stronger crew IMO.

But the reason that the Ravens have kept Suggs is that he's continued to be a really good player. At 36, he's still better than Matthews.

But you make a fair point about the availability of veteran replacements. Preston Smith, Za'Darius Smith, Anthony Barr, and Shaq Barrett are players who I'd prefer to sign over Matthews and who I think have a chance to hit the market. But if they start to drop, they might be better off just bringing Clay back for one more run.
 
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HardRightEdge

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Packers probably won't compete in the signing of Clay Matthews. However, they may draft his look a like, LB Chase "The Clay" Winovich out of Michigan.
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Am I mistaken or does Chase have skinny thights and a beer gut?
 
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Pokerbrat2000

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Am I mistaken or does Chase have skinny thights and a beer gut?

LOL....always hard to tell with pads and camera angles, I guess we will find out at the combine?

Than again, who would have ever thought this guy would become a "pretty decent" football player?

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sschind

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LOL....always hard to tell with pads and camera angles, I guess we will find out at the combine?

Than again, who would have ever thought this guy would become a "pretty decent" football player?

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Yeah, remember all those pictures of Eddie Lacy that showed him being fat? Oh wait, never mind.
 
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Pokerbrat2000

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Yeah, remember all those pictures of Eddie Lacy that showed him being fat? Oh wait, never mind.
and that time period when Aaron Rodgers went on the Fried Chicken and donuts bender?

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HardRightEdge

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I'd be ok bringing back Matthews for a team friendly deal. People forget, but he played decent at MLB and would be good depth for OLB/MLB, but the transition should take place from him to a rookie this year (or Fakrell).

Depth, leadership. For a team attempting to make a run experienced bodies are necessary. Obviously, if another team wants to pay him big money then let him go. The expectation, however, is that he would no longer be any every down player.
Expecting Matthews to play ILB except for the occasional blitz is playing the game from a decade ago, not today's game. In the 3-4 today you better have a speed component to cover RBs, TEs and even slot isolation. Martinez is not that guy and neither is Matthews.

The Packers recognized this fact in first drafting Jones and then Burks. We even saw Whitehead play that role for a couple of games, whether you want to call him a dime box safety in a distinction without a difference, until he got ejected and cut. And I keep going back to the fact, for the umpteeth time, that Matthews went two consecutive games at ILB without making a tackle which seems impossible. He's a backside run defender from his OLB position who gets washed out playing off the ball.

Clearly an upgrade is needed at ILB (or dime box safety if you prefer) which amounts to something like 75 - 80% of the snaps, or they roll with Burks looking for that second year jump, but it would be a mistake to think that Matthews should be anything other than a rotational OLB if he is retained and paid accordingly.

As for leadership, I wish I could find the quote from early last year where Matthews said, "I am not a leader." Not a shocking fact, but a bit shocking he'd admit it. He's been a solo performer, not a conductor of the orchestra.

As for "making a run", I'd be thinking more in terms of a 2 year plan.
 
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HardRightEdge

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and that time period when Aaron Rodgers went on the Fried Chicken and donuts bender?

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Too bad the busted up shoulder and bum knee coouldn't be photoshopped.
 
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That is just wrong.

"It bears pointing out that in Matthews’ one full season playing primarily inside linebacker, the Packers ranked No. 12 in points allowed and No. 7 in defensive passer rating. After the Packers moved him inside for the final eight games in 2014, they ranked Nos. 9 and 12.

That’s not big-time NFL defense, but it’s a lot better than 2016 (Nos. 21 and 26) and last season (Nos. 26 and 31). I’m not suggesting the difference is all because of Matthews playing inside. But it’s hard to dismiss it as a factor. He’s a better player in that role at this point in his career. He’s just not as explosive a rusher on the edge as he used to be, and he has more of an impact on the game when he lines up inside. "

source: https://www.packersnews.com/story/s...need-clay-matthews-playing-inside/1070406001/
The point that many folks miss is that bringing Clay inside may not generate a Prowbowl ILB.
It’s that he’s still talented and he does still have flashes of big play ability. He allows the best talent to get on the field at the same time, provided we bring in a stud like Peppers was.
His effectiveness as an OLB is obviously waning and he won’t generate the production needed for us at OLB, particularly not for anything close to his last contract. It’s as if Delilah cut his locks. Sadly, it’s either time to use him in a different capacity or let him go.
 

C-Lee

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Rapoport:

When the Packers prepare for the offseason, they do so with the belief that TE Jimmy Graham will be back for 2019, source said. He's due a $5M roster bonus on 3/15, and the expectation now is they pay it and he returns. Another season with Aaron Rodgers.
Beat me this time :sneaky:

I hope his effort levels are higher next season.
 

gbgary

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Beat me this time :sneaky:

I hope his effort levels are higher next season.
effort? a knee injury (that we dont' know the severity of) and a broken thumbs will effect things. that said his numbers weren't that bad considering the Rodgers factor. he can be a weapon if used. what could it hurt?
 

C-Lee

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effort? a knee injury (that we dont' know the severity of) and a broken thumbs will effect things. that said his numbers weren't that bad considering the Rodgers factor. he can be a weapon if used. what could it hurt?
I applaud playing with the broken thumb, but there were just so many drops and balls he should have caught (mainly before the thumb)

I wouldn't be surprised to see him have a more productive season, especially in the red zone. LaFleur loves TE's in his offense too.
 

sschind

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Here is my problem with cutting Graham. If we do the TE instantly becomes a position of serious need. I don't see a TE in FA worth bringing in as the future at the position which leaves the draft. I'd love to see Hockenson, Fant or Smith Jr. but as rookies how much will they be able to contribute. We can address EDGE and OL in FA so IMO if we cut Graham TE might just be a bigger problem than those two areas.

Going on what I know right now if it were me I'd stick with Graham for one more year. If Rodgers comes back rejuvenated as some have suggested what he and Graham could do could be special. If Lewis is serious about wanting to be here and can block fine but I would still draft one of the top 3, or at least really try to grab one with either #30 or #44. If they will be gone by #44 I wouldn't mind jumping up several spots if one does fall out of the first round.
 

brandon2348

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Well at least everyone can stop talking about Hockenson now.

Graham will be fine if we can upgrade our talent in the slot.
 
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