Packer 1st and 2nd round picks

[easyk83]

Like when he dropped that pass in the end zone, like you Just mentioned. TDs against Seattle don't come easy, we needed that. Or when the ball bounced off his hands and it was picked off against Seattle earlier that year.

He didn't drop one in the end zone, I was referring to him getting behind the Seattle defense and him dropping a ball that landed in his hands. Of course there's a good chance that Eric Berry chases him down there.

As to the bounce interception that was a high velocity off target throw, Rodgers was as much to blame as Nelson.

 

[DaveRoller]

Every team has its drafts busts and booms as well as the same with Free Agents. There are advantages and disadvantages to both.

TT is confident in his (and staffs) ability to scout college talent, maybe at times a bit too confident? I think most of us are in agreement that he doesn't dabble in FA enough, especially this year with some major holes not being addressed (ILB/TE). I get his sense of pride in the draft and develop philosophy, but I think its time he loosens the bank roll up each year and puts a few more proven vets on the field, not only for their skills and experience but for their veteran leadership. Said this many times, but I wonder where our defense would be today if Charles Woodson was still on it.

The Packers had a major hole at safety in 2012 and 2013. The hole was not addressed. The Packers had a major hole at ILB in 2014 and again in 2015 and it was not addressed. The Packers had a hole at TE in 2015 and it was not addressed.

The Packers had a hole at OLB opposite of Clay between 2009-2013 (yes, even in the Super Bowl run it was manned by scrubs like Zombo & Walden) and it did not get properly addressed (the Nick Perry selection failed to fix the problem) until 2014, when TT signed his first prominent veteran free agent in 8 years Julius Peppers.

When Carolina lost a good pass rushing DE to IR (designated to return) in Charles Johnson earlier this year, they traded for Jared Allen. With a number of young CBs to break in on their roster (just like GB), the Panthers signed Peanut Tillman last offseason for insurance. Neither of these moves were flashy, risky, or expensive.

Many Packer fans scoffed at NE when they went "all in" by signing high priced Free Agents Browner & Revis last year, saying they'd never stay long and would stunt the development of younger players (the mantra in Green Bay). Well, Revis and Browner are indeed gone (after helping NE win another Super Bowl) and poor NE, that franchise has been decimated right? It must have been decimated, because not only did NE go out and sign even more veteran free agents this offseason but Belichek has traded for 3 players from other teams since the start of this season.

At some point, one would think that even the most diehard loyalists would acknowledge the hole in TT's game - his (reluctance? inability?) to acquire veteran players to plug holes in the Packers' roster.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Well put Dave!

 

[easyk83]

The Packers had a major hole at safety in 2012 and 2013. The hole was not addressed. The Packers had a major hole at ILB in 2014 and again in 2015 and it was not addressed. The Packers had a hole at TE in 2015 and it was not addressed.

The Packers had a hole at OLB opposite of Clay between 2009-2013 (yes, even in the Super Bowl run it was manned by scrubs like Zombo & Walden) and it did not get properly addressed (the Nick Perry selection failed to fix the problem) until 2014, when TT signed his first prominent veteran free agent in 8 years Julius Peppers.

When Carolina lost a good pass rushing DE to IR (designated to return) in Charles Johnson earlier this year, they traded for Jared Allen. With a number of young CBs to break in on their roster (just like GB), the Panthers signed Peanut Tillman last offseason for insurance. Neither of these moves were flashy, risky, or expensive.

Many Packer fans scoffed at NE when they went "all in" by signing high priced Free Agents Browner & Revis last year, saying they'd never stay long and would stunt the development of younger players (the mantra in Green Bay). Well, Revis and Browner are indeed gone (after helping NE win another Super Bowl) and poor NE, that franchise has been decimated right? It must have been decimated, because not only did NE go out and sign even more veteran free agents this offseason but Belichek has traded for 3 players from other teams since the start of this season.

At some point, one would think that even the most diehard loyalists would acknowledge the hole in TT's game - his (reluctance? inability?) to acquire veteran players to plug holes in the Packers' roster.

TT does need to be more aggressive, even very talented players fail to develop because of catastrophic injury(Sherrod) or chronic nagging injuries (Perry). Or perhaps promising careers are cut short again by horrible injuries (Collins and Finley).

Right now we have holes at TE and ILB. We are weak at LT and lack depth at CB, too many slot specialists and not enough real outside cover corners. Hyde Hayward and Rollins are just slot cover guys although Hyde can play a little safety. S lacks real playmaking ability and while we have good players at OLB we're thinner than we should be because we have Clay playing inside. At ILB we might have an answer in Jake Ryan but we need another starter caliber player.

At WR we have depth but losing our 1 3 and 4 receivers hobbled our offense. Of our top 5 only 2, not including Jones, are legitimate boundary threats. Cobb and Monty are just slot guys who can also line up in the backfield. Aaron needs to stop being a snob and start throwing to guys when they're open.

At QB Aaron is obviously our starter for the better part of the next 10 years. In depth Tolzien is a solid backup and I really really like Brett Hundley who likes like a legit starter in the NFL. Find time to showcase the kid and we should be able to trade him at some point.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

He didn't drop one in the end zone, I was referring to him getting behind the Seattle defense and him dropping a ball that landed in his hands. Of course there's a good chance that Eric Berry chases him down there.

Now I'm totally confused. First of all I think Nelson dropped the sure-fire TD at Buffalo and not against the Seahawks. In any case I wonder how Eric Berry, who plays for the Chiefs, might have chased him down.

 

[adambr2]

The Packers had a major hole at safety in 2012 and 2013. The hole was not addressed. The Packers had a major hole at ILB in 2014 and again in 2015 and it was not addressed. The Packers had a hole at TE in 2015 and it was not addressed.

The Packers had a hole at OLB opposite of Clay between 2009-2013 (yes, even in the Super Bowl run it was manned by scrubs like Zombo & Walden) and it did not get properly addressed (the Nick Perry selection failed to fix the problem) until 2014, when TT signed his first prominent veteran free agent in 8 years Julius Peppers.

When Carolina lost a good pass rushing DE to IR (designated to return) in Charles Johnson earlier this year, they traded for Jared Allen. With a number of young CBs to break in on their roster (just like GB), the Panthers signed Peanut Tillman last offseason for insurance. Neither of these moves were flashy, risky, or expensive.

Many Packer fans scoffed at NE when they went "all in" by signing high priced Free Agents Browner & Revis last year, saying they'd never stay long and would stunt the development of younger players (the mantra in Green Bay). Well, Revis and Browner are indeed gone (after helping NE win another Super Bowl) and poor NE, that franchise has been decimated right? It must have been decimated, because not only did NE go out and sign even more veteran free agents this offseason but Belichek has traded for 3 players from other teams since the start of this season.

At some point, one would think that even the most diehard loyalists would acknowledge the hole in TT's game - his (reluctance? inability?) to acquire veteran players to plug holes in the Packers' roster.

Buckle up for this offseason because we may see significant departures. All of Daniels, Raji, and Guion are free agents. I believe Neal is a FA as well as Perry, Hayward too? I also don't think Peppers has done enough to earn the $10.5M salary on the books for him next year. If he doesn't restructure, I think he may be cut.

Notwithstanding holes we already have at ILB and TE, we may have a lot more coming as I'm sure we will bring some of these guys back but certainly not all. TT is going to need to step out of his comfort zone next spring because we're simply going to have too many holes to address solely with the draft.

EDIT : I take back my comments on Peppers. Given that his cap hit in 2016 is actually less than this year, the fact that he's still been reasonably productive, and the fact that OLB will be a major issue if we lose too many bodies next year, I think Peppers stays and finishes his contract here.

 

[TJV]

• I’m much more impressed with suggestions on who Thompson should have drafted before TC that year, or at least before it becomes obvious. Because I am (and all of you are) a genius drafter when looking at past drafts. And I'm not even a draftnik (not that there's anything wrong with that).

• I believe the net cost for acquiring Vernon Davis was a 6th rounder. I think that was worth the “risk” since the Packers will have a comp pick - or more likely two - that would have still provided them with at least a full complement of picks in the 2016 draft. And it may have prevented another team, a team they may play in the SB, from benefiting from acquiring him.

• Like many/most of you I wish Thompson would use UFA to fill holes on the roster. But IMO he doesn't do so not because he's conservative, or stubborn, or egotistical. He doesn't do so because he is disciplined in sticking to his philosophy of team building. We may all disagree with his philosophy, but IMO he arrived at it in a rational, unemotional way.

 

[DaveRoller]

Buckle up for this offseason because we may see significant departures. All of Daniels, Raji, and Guion are free agents. I believe Neal is a FA as well as Perry, Hayward too? I also don't think Peppers has done enough to earn the $10.5M salary on the books for him next year. If he doesn't restructure, I think he may be cut.

Notwithstanding holes we already have at ILB and TE, we may have a lot more coming as I'm sure we will bring some of these guys back but certainly not all. TT is going to need to step out of his comfort zone next spring because we're simply going to have too many holes to address solely with the draft.

Do you really think that TT 1st round picks Raji & Perry and 2nd round picks Neal & Hayward will not be around next season to lead the defense to another year of glory?

You may be correct, but I have my doubts because if even 3 of these 4 players depart then it would be a pretty damning indictment of either TT's drafting prowess, his near-exclusive reliance on his own players, or both.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Maybe can pick up Hunter Henry next year, the TE on my collegiate team, the Arkansas Razorbacks. He's an athletic, hard working guy with great hands and lines up in a 3 point stance and earns his due as a blocker. He'd hit the playbook as soon as his name was called.

 

[azrsx05]

Buckle up for this offseason because we may see significant departures. All of Daniels, Raji, and Guion are free agents. I believe Neal is a FA as well as Perry, Hayward too? I also don't think Peppers has done enough to earn the $10.5M salary on the books for him next year. If he doesn't restructure, I think he may be cut.

Notwithstanding holes we already have at ILB and TE, we may have a lot more coming as I'm sure we will bring some of these guys back but certainly not all. TT is going to need to step out of his comfort zone next spring because we're simply going to have too many holes to address solely with the draft.

But hey we might be $20 mil under the cap and have a bunch of rookies playing and "trusting" the draft and develope strategy and how great all our coaches are. Maybe they'll pick up a few more undrafted free agents, since TT. Thinks that's what free agency is and hope the guys who weren't even picked up will become all pros and paying them $500,000.

I'm not saying break the bank. But accep when you've made a mistake that the drafts you thought were going to fix the issue and need time or maybe got injured. So get a veteran free agent who can actually teach the young guys. To me it solves the problem sooner, gives the young player to develope.

 

[easyk83]

Now I'm totally confused. First of all I think Nelson dropped the sure-fire TD at Buffalo and not against the Seahawks. In any case I wonder how Eric Berry, who plays for the Chiefs, might have chased him down.

There was an almost identical play against Seattle.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Do you really think that TT 1st round picks Raji & Perry and 2nd round picks Neal & Hayward will not be around next season to lead the defense to another year of glory?

I'm convinced the Packers will let Hayward go after this season as both Rollins and Hyde provide depth at slot corner. I expect Perry to sign with a team playing a 4-3 defense.

 

[easyk83]

Do you really think that TT 1st round picks Raji & Perry and 2nd round picks Neal & Hayward will not be around next season to lead the defense to another year of glory?

You may be correct, but I have my doubts because if even 3 of these 4 players depart then it would be a pretty damning indictment of either TT's drafting prowess, his near-exclusive reliance on his own players, or both.

Raji did help lead us to a Super Bowl... and he's played very well this year. I think they hold onto Neal who has been able to stay healthy lately and let Hayward and Perry go. IMHO I think we had weak drafts from 11 to 12 and seem to be back on track with the last two. 13 might turn into a good draft if Datone Jones can play more snaps at his present level of productivity., i think he will if he gets to play outside more.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

There was an almost identical play against Seattle.

Really??? Can't remember that one anymore, seems like I've succesfully erased that game out of my mind. Still being confused about Perry though.

EDIT: Watched all of Rodgers passes to Nelson in both Seattle games last season and there wasn't any play on which he got behind the defense and dropped it like he did in Buffalo.

 

[DaveRoller]

Raji did help lead us to a Super Bowl... and he's played very well this year. I think they hold onto Neal who has been able to stay healthy lately and let Hayward and Perry go. IMHO I think we had weak drafts from 11 to 12 and seem to be back on track with the last two. 13 might turn into a good draft if Datone Jones can play more snaps at his present level of productivity., i think he will if he gets to play outside more.

Neal has been much healthier in recent years. However, the guy has 2 sacks this season, had 4.5 last year and has never had more than 5 in a single season. He is consistently rated as one of the poorest outside linebackers by PFF for what that is worth. In other words, he is just a guy -- just a guy with a $4.25M cap hit this season.

Would it really be a tragedy for GB to let mediocre to below average players like Neal & Quarless depart and perhaps look outside the organization for upgrades?

 

[thisisnate]

I'm convinced the Packers will let Hayward go after this season as both Rollins and Hyde provide depth at slot corner. I expect Perry to sign with a team playing a 4-3 defense.

With ya on Hayward heading out of town. Perry, I don't really have an opinion on him either way.

 

[easyk83]

Neal has been much healthier in recent years. However, the guy has 2 sacks this season, had 4.5 last year and has never had more than 5 in a single season. He is consistently rated as one of the poorest outside linebackers by PFF for what that is worth. In other words, he is just a guy -- just a guy with a $4.25M cap hit this season.

Would it really be a tragedy for GB to let mediocre to below average players like Neal & Quarless depart and perhaps look outside the organization for upgrades?

What is his salary and unless I'm mistaken isn't he a part time depth guy?

 

[easyk83]

Really??? Can't remember that one anymore, seems like I've succesfully erased that game out of my mind. Still being confused about Perry though.

EDIT: Watched all of Rodgers passes to Nelson in both Seattle games last season and there wasn't any play on which he got behind the defense and dropped it like he did in Buffalo.

Maybe I blurred two frustrating games could have sworn Nelson dropped what would have been a big play against Seattle.

 

[adambr2]

Neal has been much healthier in recent years. However, the guy has 2 sacks this season, had 4.5 last year and has never had more than 5 in a single season. He is consistently rated as one of the poorest outside linebackers by PFF for what that is worth. In other words, he is just a guy -- just a guy with a $4.25M cap hit this season.

Would it really be a tragedy for GB to let mediocre to below average players like Neal & Quarless depart and perhaps look outside the organization for upgrades?

I've mentioned this before, I don't know how a guy like Neal who is basically just not a very good player manages to slip through the cracks and earn $4M a year. His production is easily replaced or beaten by guys like Elliot and Mulumba. We need to stop acting like it's no big deal to throw away a few million here and there on mediocre players like Hawk, Jones, Neal, etc. Not only does it hurt our bottom line but it fills a spot that we could otherwise seek to replace in FA or the draft by a more productive player.

I have said it before, but TT needs to start accepting that sometimes the best man for the job isn't the one already on the roster.

 

[easyk83]

• I’m much more impressed with suggestions on who Thompson should have drafted before TC that year, or at least before it becomes obvious. Because I am (and all of you are) a genius drafter when looking at past drafts. And I'm not even a draftnik (not that there's anything wrong with that).

• I believe the net cost for acquiring Vernon Davis was a 6th rounder. I think that was worth the “risk” since the Packers will have a comp pick - or more likely two - that would have still provided them with at least a full complement of picks in the 2016 draft. And it may have prevented another team, a team they may play in the SB, from benefiting from acquiring him.

• Like many/most of you I wish Thompson would use UFA to fill holes on the roster. But IMO he doesn't do so not because he's conservative, or stubborn, or egotistical. He doesn't do so because he is disciplined in sticking to his philosophy of team building. We may all disagree with his philosophy, but IMO he arrived at it in a rational, unemotional way.

The last bit is probably true, a conservative GM doesn't choose Rodgers or Favre or give away as much as Thompson did for Matthews.

 

[adambr2]

What is his salary and unless I'm mistaken isn't he a part time depth guy?

Part time depth guys earning peanuts like Elliot and Mulumba are fine. Every team has those guys.

Part time depth guys making $4+M a season are a problem.

 

[easyk83]

Part time depth guys earning peanuts like Elliot and Mulumba are fine. Every team has those guys.

Part time depth guys making $4+M a season are a problem.

Then it probably is time to part ways. This Packer fan wouldn't mind seeing more of a hybrid scheme in the future with a slightly thinner Datone Jones playing some elephant end, with lots of zone drops and head up play.

 

[AmishMafia]

I would really like to get to know your reasons behind calling the Seahawks a complete failure. Last time I checked they're the two time defending NFC champions.

This season they've lost some close games (three of them by four or less points and led in all of their losses in the fourth quarter) but I expect them to make the playoffs and be a dangerous team in January.

Hyperbole.

If the Packers lose, something is dreadfully wrong and the entire system needs to be changes; new players signed; schemes altered and coaching role s adjusted.

The Seahawks lost again and have a worse record than the Packers. The Seahawks are held in such high esteem here (and with good reason) yet all would think it stupid if the Seahawks were to make significant changes to their SOP. These same people want wholesale changes made to the Pack despite even better success over the last 6 years or so.

Im not saying that nothing is wrong and it should be business as usual, but the sky is falling sorts are way overboard.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Hyperbole.

If the Packers lose, something is dreadfully wrong and the entire system needs to be changes; new players signed; schemes altered and coaching role s adjusted.

The Seahawks lost again and have a worse record than the Packers. The Seahawks are held in such high esteem here (and with good reason) yet all would think it stupid if the Seahawks were to make significant changes to their SOP. These same people want wholesale changes made to the Pack despite even better success over the last 6 years or so.

Im not saying that nothing is wrong and it should be business as usual, but the sky is falling sorts are way overboard.

Well, the combined record of the teams the Seahawks have lost to is 34-10 while the Packers just lost to the worst team in the league.

There's something wrong with Seattle as well but I haven't seen a lot of their games nor do I care about their struggles but it's pretty obvious to me the Packers have to improve drastically to have a chance at winning another title.

 

[easyk83]

Well, the combined record of the teams the Seahawks have lost to is 34-10 while the Packers just lost to the worst team in the league.

There's something wrong with Seattle as well but I haven't seen a lot of their games nor do I care about their struggles but it's pretty obvious to me the Packers have to improve drastically to have a chance at winning another title.

Didn't Seattle also lose to Detroit?