Packer 1st and 2nd round picks

[Patriotplayer90]

I'm glad Thompson selects football players and doesn't draft guys because of their measurements and athleticism only.

But clearly he's not on the same page with the coaches, as they run ISO Spread routes, which requires players who can beat man coverage. Adams can be a solid YAC guy, but he's not going to succeed in a system where he can't get open.

 

[yooperpackfan]

I'm glad Thompson selects football players and doesn't draft guys because of their measurements and athleticism only.

Unfortunately he's not that good at selecting good football players.
If AAron Rodgers hadn't dropped into his lap we would have been enduring a whole bunch of 8-8 seasons.

 

[TJV]

I'm not saying they are picking up duds purposely, but they clearly aren't trying to surround him with the same type of athlete Indy or Pittsburg is. Big, very fast, or both.

I think they are trying, with the exception of not using UFA much at all. It's interesting you use those two teams for comparison: The Packers have scored more points than either over the previous four seasons, finishing first in the league twice.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

But clearly he's not on the same page with the coaches, as they run ISO Spread routes, which requires players who can beat man coverage. Adams can be a solid YAC guy, but he's not going to succeed in a system where he can't get open.

There was no way for the front office to know that Nelson would be lost for the season. Last year the Packers receiving corps was one of the best in the league and with an ascensing second-year player in Adams there was no reason to believe the unit would struggle.

Unfortunately he's not that good at selecting good football players.
If AAron Rodgers hadn't dropped into his lap we would have been enduring a whole bunch of 8-8 seasons.

To be fair, there have been only a handful of teams over the last few seasons capable of winning constantly without a top QB.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

There was no way for the front office to know that Nelson would be lost for the season. Last year the Packers receiving corps was one of the best in the league and with an ascensing second-year player in Adams there was no reason to believe the unit would struggle.



To be fair, there have been only a handful of teams over the last few seasons capable of winning constantly without a top QB.

He's not just a top QB though. He's at the absolute top of the league each year in QB rating, and in NFL History. We can't afford him to be gun slinging, risk taking Brady who would have a 28-12 TD/INT ratio without good WRs or Gronk, we absolutely cannot win that way.

Rodgers has to be as efficient as possible, and if that means not throwing contested throws to guys who can't get open to save an INT and putting a weak defense in a bad position, so be it. I'm sure the DCs out there are quite happy they didn't load up on WR depth or go for a #1 guy in his absence.

 

[easyk83]

Unfortunately he's not that good at selecting good football players.
If AAron Rodgers hadn't dropped into his lap we would have been enduring a whole bunch of 8-8 seasons.

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[easyk83]

But clearly he's not on the same page with the coaches, as they run ISO Spread routes, which requires players who can beat man coverage. Adams can be a solid YAC guy, but he's not going to succeed in a system where he can't get open.

I think he'll be a tough cover with his fluidity body control and natural route running. But he needs to stay healthy and get some continuity with Aaron Rodgers. I like Adams more than Cobb who I see as a slot guy who could probably be replaced by Montgomery.

Thompson often does draft on measurements, but in certain areas he tends to focus more on particular skills. Aaron wants guys who are smart and run good routes, so TT tends to draft receivers who fit the bill.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

He's not just a top QB though. He's at the absolute top of the league each year in QB rating, and in NFL History. We can't afford him to be gun slinging, risk taking Brady who would have a 28-12 TD/INT ratio without good WRs or Gronk, we absolutely cannot win that way.

Rodgers has to be as efficient as possible, and if that means not throwing contested throws to guys who can't get open to save an INT and putting a weak defense in a bad position, so be it. I'm sure the DCs out there are quite happy they didn't load up on WR depth or go for a #1 guy in his absence.

At the time Nelson got hurt there weren't any #1 receivers available for the Packers to sign. Thompson added depth in the draft with Montgomery and brought back James Jones at the end of camp.

With the current receiving corps struggling to get open Rodgers will have to take more risk and give his WRs a chance to make plays.

 

[AmishMafia]

I swear there are posters here who have never seen a Packer game. And a bunch who have never seen any other football game the Packers are not playing in.

Seattle Seahawks are a complete failure and they have no idea what they are doing. At 4-4 they are way 50% worse than the Packers. And if TT sucks, they have to be completely incompetent.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

I think he'll be a tough cover with his fluidity body control and natural route running. But he needs to stay healthy and get some continuity with Aaron Rodgers. I like Adams more than Cobb who I see as a slot guy who could probably be replaced by Montgomery.

Thompson often does draft on measurements, but in certain areas he tends to focus more on particular skills. Aaron wants guys who are smart and run good routes, so TT tends to draft receivers who fit the bill.

Well, all I know is that Seattle had much, much more trouble covering Kelvin Benjamin than any GB receiver, including Jordy.

 

[easyk83]

Well, all I know is that Seattle had much, much more trouble covering Kelvin Benjamin than any GB receiver, including Jordy.

Jordy Nelson did drop a sure fire touchdown pass against Seattle.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Jordy Nelson did drop a sure fire touchdown pass against Seattle.

Right, and Benjamin and Gronk did not. I'd love to see Nelson out there, but he's always seemed to play scared in big moments and against great defenses Seattle and SF.

 

[easyk83]

Right, and Benjamin and Gronk did not. I'd love to see Nelson out there, but he's always seemed to play scared in big moments and against great defenses Seattle and SF.

Like when he first emerged in the super bowl?

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Like when he first emerged in the super bowl?

Like when he dropped that pass in the end zone, like you Just mentioned. TDs against Seattle don't come easy, we needed that. Or when the ball bounced off his hands and it was picked off against Seattle earlier that year.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Is it just me or are other people confused by some posters and which team they are talking about when they say "we", "us" "they"....are they talking about themselves, the Packers or maybe be Patriots? *scratches his head*

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Is it just me or are other people confused by some posters and which team they are talking about when they say "we", "us" "they"....are they talking about themselves, the Packers or maybe be Patriots? *scratches his head*

Most of us are actually members of the Green Bay Packers. Jeff Janis must have at least 10 accounts on here.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Most of us are actually members of the Green Bay Packers. Jeff Janis must have at least 10 accounts on here.

Explains why he is hardly ever on the field, he is too busy with all his sock accounts.

 

[ExpatPacker]

I went back to previous drafts just to see who the Packers could have had:

2013: Datone Jones. Could have picked instead: Sylvester Williams, Alec Ogletree, Kawann Short, Kevin Minter, Kiko Alonso on the defensive side.

2012: Nick Perry. Could have picked instead: Harrison Smith, Courtney Upshaw, Derek Wolfe, Andre Branch, Mychal Kendricks, Bobby Wagner, Kendall Reyes.

Of that list of picks on the defensive side from the end of the 1st round to the middle of the 2nd round the only guy that really sticks as being above the rest is Bobby Wagner

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I swear there are posters here who have never seen a Packer game. And a bunch who have never seen any other football game the Packers are not playing in.

Seattle Seahawks are a complete failure and they have no idea what they are doing. At 4-4 they are way 50% worse than the Packers. And if TT sucks, they have to be completely incompetent.

I would really like to get to know your reasons behind calling the Seahawks a complete failure. Last time I checked they're the two time defending NFC champions.

This season they've lost some close games (three of them by four or less points and led in all of their losses in the fourth quarter) but I expect them to make the playoffs and be a dangerous team in January.

While their offense has struggled at times they for sure know how to build a dominant defense. The unit has led the NFL in points allowed at the end of the last three seasons and are currently tied for second.

I went back to previous drafts just to see who the Packers could have had:

2013: Datone Jones. Could have picked instead: Sylvester Williams, Alec Ogletree, Kawann Short, Kevin Minter, Kiko Alonso on the defensive side.

2012: Nick Perry. Could have picked instead: Harrison Smith, Courtney Upshaw, Derek Wolfe, Andre Branch, Mychal Kendricks, Bobby Wagner, Kendall Reyes.

Of that list of picks on the defensive side from the end of the 1st round to the middle of the 2nd round the only guy that really sticks as being above the rest is Bobby Wagner

I think there are some names on that list that would be an upgrade over the guys currently on the Packers roster.

What I would like Thompson to do though is to realize that the draft isn't the only way to acquire talent and use all methods available to improve the defense.

 

[ExpatPacker]

I

What I would like Thompson to do though is to realize that the draft isn't the only way to acquire talent and use all methods available to improve the defense.

I still do not understand why the Packers did not go after Vernon Davis. It would have made such perfect, absolute sense. No, Davis is not what he used to be but he's better than RRodgers or Andrew Quarless. Plus with him there a 2 TE set is possible.

My main beef with MM and TT is that they are conservative when it comes to change, meaning that they are reactive rather than proactive. Generally speaking, it's wise to be cautious, but they do not seem to actively search out opportunities for upgrading through FA, and changes to game plans also tend to come painfully slow. Personnel changes come in the offseason, but offseason is a bit too late for the current season.

I'm not saying the Packers should sell the farm. I remember when Mario Williams was the talk of FA and there were calls to bring him in. I'm very glad TT didn't. Way, way too expensive. Same is probably true of Joe Thomas at LT. It would be nice, but the price tag was high. But Vernon Davis?

We tend to compare the Packers with the Pats, for a reason. Belichick and Kraft are far more active at seeking FAs when they need to. TT seems to have a mental block, and when I listen to the guy, his explanations or lack thereof are pretty obvious. You might as well be talking to a robot.

 

[Sky King]

TT and his personnel staff deserve their due. They draft quite well as a whole. The W-L record speaks loudly to that fact since they are a consistently good team season after season. With the exception of one season, they have not been great. Using draft and develop as the foundation for building this team makes sense, and the results clearly support that. The results also imply that they have been falling just slightly short of their SB goal more often than not. No team is going to hit on every draft pick nor win the SB every season. But the most successful team of the new millennium has built through both the draft and free agency.

The only other option available to put the Packers over the top is free agency. They don't have to mortgage the future to gain from free agency, just become ever so slightly more competitive than they have been. Otherwise, they will have to continue to depend almost totally upon draft choices and undrafted rookies getting coached-up to fill the gaps that exist. It has not always proven to be successful at every position, especially on defense, where they seem to be least effective in the draft.

A pertinent example of how limited free agency can be applied successfully occurred the season after TT left Seattle. They finally dabbled just a little in free agency, which they were averse to doing under TT's influence, and Holmgren and company finally made it to the SB. They improved just enough as a team to have made that possible. At the time, there were some who felt that it was the tipping-point for Seattle that season. Would they have been as successful had they not obtained that small handful of free agents? Perhaps not.

But just ponder that Seattle has been to the SB three times since TT left that team and the Packers have been there only once. You can't win it if you're not in it.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

I still do not understand why the Packers did not go after Vernon Davis. It would have made such perfect, absolute sense. No, Davis is not what he used to be but he's better than RRodgers or Andrew Quarless. Plus with him there a 2 TE set is possible.

My main beef with MM and TT is that they are conservative when it comes to change, meaning that they are reactive rather than proactive. Generally speaking, it's wise to be cautious, but they do not seem to actively search out opportunities for upgrading through FA, and changes to game plans also tend to come painfully slow. Personnel changes come in the offseason, but offseason is a bit too late for the current season.

I'm not saying the Packers should sell the farm. I remember when Mario Williams was the talk of FA and there were calls to bring him in. I'm very glad TT didn't. Way, way too expensive. Same is probably true of Joe Thomas at LT. It would be nice, but the price tag was high. But Vernon Davis?

We tend to compare the Packers with the Pats, for a reason. Belichick and Kraft are far more active at seeking FAs when they need to. TT seems to have a mental block, and when I listen to the guy, his explanations or lack thereof are pretty obvious. You might as well be talking to a robot.

I read commentary from some unnamed coach in Vernon's old division that he basically only runs a few routes, he's not going to have everything in the playbook down. And we all know good and well no matter how talented you are and how much you can help the team, you aren't seeing the field unless you know every route like the back of your hand.

TT and his personnel staff deserve their due. They draft quite well as a whole. The W-L record speaks loudly to that fact since they are a consistently good team season after season. With the exception of one season, they have not been great. Using draft and develop as the foundation for building this team makes sense, and the results clearly support that. The results also imply that they have been falling just slightly short of their SB goal more often than not. No team is going to hit on every draft pick nor win the SB every season. But the most successful team of the new millennium has built through both the draft and free agency.

The only other option available to put the Packers over the top is free agency. They don't have to mortgage the future to gain from free agency, just become ever so slightly more competitive than they have been. Otherwise, they will have to continue to depend almost totally upon draft choices and undrafted rookies getting coached-up to fill the gaps that exist. It has not always proven to be successful at every position, especially on defense, where they seem to be least effective in the draft.

A pertinent example of how limited free agency can be applied successfully occurred the season after TT left Seattle. They finally dabbled just a little in free agency, which they were averse to doing under TT's influence, and Holmgren and company finally made it to the SB. They improved just enough as a team to have made that possible. At the time, there were some who felt that it was the tipping-point for Seattle that season. Would they have been as successful had they not obtained that small handful of free agents? Perhaps not.

But just ponder that Seattle has been to the SB three times since TT left that team and the Packers have been there only once. You can't win it if you're not in it.

But I hesitate to give TT credit-they perform well every year, but we all know why that is. Just like the teams with no QB struggle each year, the teams with the top tier QBs rarely do.

The draft should be the foundation for team building, but he's average at it-besides the fact that we are unable to beat top teams in the playoffs each year, we have no depth and injuries complete devastate our team.

But I also hesitate to point the finger at TT- if all of these players were in NE, or the offense were run by Sean Payton, do I think they'd look better? I'd have to say yes.

 

[DaveRoller]

I went back to previous drafts just to see who the Packers could have had:

2013: Datone Jones. Could have picked instead: Sylvester Williams, Alec Ogletree, Kawann Short, Kevin Minter, Kiko Alonso on the defensive side.

2012: Nick Perry. Could have picked instead: Harrison Smith, Courtney Upshaw, Derek Wolfe, Andre Branch, Mychal Kendricks, Bobby Wagner, Kendall Reyes.

Of that list of picks on the defensive side from the end of the 1st round to the middle of the 2nd round the only guy that really sticks as being above the rest is Bobby Wagner

Kawann Short dominated the interior of our OLine last week and is a dominant player. He plays far more snaps for a far better defense than does Datone Jones. Alec Ogletree is the type of athletic, instinctive inside linebacker we have not had in Green Bay since Desmond Bishop in 2010.

However, the real miss was Harrison Smith. A smart hitter with above-average coverage skills, if TT had drafted Smith (taken 1 spot behind Perry), we would not have been subjected to M.D. Jennings for 2 seasons. A 4th round pick would never have been wasted on Jerron McMillian. And, instead of using a 2014 1st rounder on filling the glaring hole at safety by picking HHCD, TT gets to select the best player available.

Too bad, Harrison Smith would be a folk hero if he played in Green Bay.

 

[metallicblaze]

The problem with Dix and it's not really his problem is that when he does make the big hits, he gets flagged for them.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Every team has its drafts busts and booms as well as the same with Free Agents. There are advantages and disadvantages to both.

Drafted/undrafted players typically cost the team less on that first contract, which should provide the team with enough cap space to spend on their more proven vets. Downside is, they are for the most parts wildcards, hit or miss, since the only body of work you have to go off of is their college resume and the hope that they are teachable.

Free agents on the other hand have a potential tremendous upside, this being, you can get what you pay for. A FA usually has been around long enough for a team to know the players abilities in the NFL and who they really are on and off the field. So if a player fits your needs and your teams personality at the right price, logic would say he is your man. The downside of FA's is that there is no guarantees that said player will perform at the level you are grading them out at and history has proven this time and time again. The other downside is the cost. Desperate teams may bid that players value up way higher then it should be. This is the part that I think keeps TT out of FA and rightly so. Every year during the FA period, I picture a big poker game going on, plenty of "players" at the table....and there is TT off in a corner, wondering if he should sit in and play a hand.

TT is confident in his (and staffs) ability to scout college talent, maybe at times a bit too confident? I think most of us are in agreement that he doesn't dabble in FA enough, especially this year with some major holes not being addressed (ILB/TE). I get his sense of pride in the draft and develop philosophy, but I think its time he loosens the bank roll up each year and puts a few more proven vets on the field, not only for their skills and experience but for their veteran leadership. Said this many times, but I wonder where our defense would be today if Charles Woodson was still on it.