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Pack cut & trade vets Franks, Fergy, KGB, Barry, Manuel...?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by TOPHAT, May 30, 2007.

  1. TOPHAT

    TOPHAT Cheesehead

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    http://greenbaypressgazette.packers...70527/PKR01/705270629&SearchID=73282624693628

    Cap savings or salvation? Team must choose between keeping or cutting vets like Ferguson, Franks, KGB and Manuel.

    Four veterans coming off disappointing seasons are slated to take up more than 11 percent of the Green Bay Packers' salary cap for the upcoming season. The team could release some combination of Marquand Manuel, Bubba Franks, Robert Ferguson and Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila by Sept. 1. But increased spending power, a young roster and management's commitment to long-term flexibility make it possible for all four to make the team — even if none earns a starting role. That would have seemed impossible a year ago, before NFL owners and the players' association agreed to extend the collective bargaining agreement, thus avoiding the need to release high-priced players to stay under the salary cap. The cap has risen from $85.5 million in 2005 to $109 million this year.

    Armed with roughly $30 million in cap space, the Packers this offseason re-signed starters Nick Barnett and Cullen Jenkins to long-term contracts with a combined first-year cap hit of about $11.5 million. Their only notable free-agent signing was cornerback Frank Walker, who got a one-year, $1.24 million deal. Subtracting their $4.907 million allotment for rookies, the Packers are roughly $10 million below the cap. So, players like Manuel, Franks, Ferguson and Gbaja-Biamila have an opportunity to keep making inflated salaries despite deflated production, provided General Manager Ted Thompson believes they're making positive contributions. "You have to say, 'OK, what can this person do for us as a football team?'" Thompson said last week, speaking generally. "A lot of times, (a player's income) just has to do with timing, the nature of the position, when those contracts were negotiated. So, you can never wipe the slate clean and say, 'OK, we're going to be absolutely fair to the dime with every guy.'"

    Role playing. Manuel, 27, is the only member of the group going through the offseason program as a starter, but his spot on the 53-man roster is in jeopardy as much as any. He was inconsistent in his first season in Green Bay, and the Packers spent a third-round draft pick on strong safety Aaron Rouse. Set to make $1.3 million this season, Manuel will try to prove groin and calf problems were all that prevented him from making the impact expected when the Packers gave him a five-year, $10 million free-agent deal before last season. "Even though I was smart enough and physical enough to play the game, I still wasn't Marquand," Manuel said during last weekend's mandatory minicamp. "It's just a blessing to be healthy, man." Manuel returned to his old offseason regimen this year, working with trainers in Arizona to improve his athleticism. Packers coaches expressed support for him throughout minicamp, though defensive coordinator Bob Sanders emphasized "there's competition at every spot." Atari Bigby and Marviel Underwood also may have a chance to unseat Manuel, or the team could bring in another veteran. "Marquand took a lot of negative heat on some things," secondary coach Kurt Schottenheimer said. "He's overcome that, and again, he's come back (and) he's in excellent shape."

    Franks, 29, says he's in the best shape he's been in years, but he's fallen behind Donald Lee on the depth chart and is battling Tory Humphrey to earn the No. 2 spot. A Pro Bowler from 2001 to 2003, Franks is coming off the two least-productive seasons of his career, and he's trying to find a niche in the Packers' zone-blocking scheme. "We're going on our second year in it," said Franks, who said he's leaner and about 5 pounds lighter than a year ago. "Last year, they said it wasn't a new offense, but it kind of was. You're going to have your learning curves." If he's in the rotation, Franks is a relative bargain at $1.4 million this season. He might find himself closer to the cutting block a year from now, when his base salary jumps to $3 million. He's slated to make at least $5 million the three seasons after that. "We are adjusting some things as we move forward with the tight end position, and I think we have excellent competition," coach Mike McCarthy said. "But Bubba Franks is a veteran football player, and we expect him to contribute to our football team."

    Ferguson, 27, also could contribute to an offense that needs playmakers. But he's recovering from the mid-foot ailment that landed him on injured reserve in 2006, and he never has been a full-time starter in six NFL seasons. If Ferguson can fit in with the rookies and young players set to rotate behind Donald Driver and Greg Jennings, his $1.8 million base salary (and $2.5 million cap number) isn't unreasonable. "I'm not necessarily re-establishing myself — I'm establishing myself," said Ferguson, who says he's added 15 pounds of muscle to his 6-foot-1 frame. "I feel like I'm fresh and healthy and faster and all that than I ever was before."

    Then there's the highest-paid player of them all, Gbaja-Biamila, who is set to make a base salary of $5 million — more than the total compensation of top linemen Ryan Pickett and Aaron Kampman combined. Coaches aren't expecting Gbaja-Biamila, 29, to reclaim the starting job he relinquished to Jenkins in December. But they know he's one of two players on the roster with proven double-digit sack potential, despite recording a career-low six in 2006. "He can still be that guy," defensive ends coach Carl Hairston said. "He's not rusty. He's still got the ability of one of the top pass-rushers in the league. He has to think that he's not a backup."

    Built for the future. It seems more likely the Packers would dump an expendable backup like tackle Kevin Barry (cap number: $1.235 million) than any current or former starters, though kicker Dave Rayner and punter Jon Ryan face competitions for their respective jobs. In late August, the Packers were about $7.6 million under the cap. Barring a major free-agent signing, they'll be in the same neighborhood this fall. The cap is expected to rise to $115 million or more in 2008, and the Packers have between $95 million and $100 million in commitments, a number that is certain to drop during fall cuts. So, Thompson is poised to enter a third straight offseason with more than $20 million to spend — and $12 million more if quarterback Brett Favre retires — though he's proven it's possible to fill cap space without spending a lot of cash. Defensive tackle Corey Williams is the only player of consequence who can become an unrestricted free agent. A multiyear deal with running back Vernand Morency, set to be a restricted free agent after this season, could be a priority if he wins the starting job. "In order to make this a continuing process so you always have a little flexibility in that regard, (the key) is to be able to plan in advance, to be able to seek out core players on your team and try to do contracts in advance," Thompson said. "It's good, quite frankly, for the player and for the organization. I think that's an ideal situation."

    Chances are Manuel, Franks, Ferguson and Gbaja-Biamila won't breathe any easier if they make the roster. Their combined cap number for 2008 is more than $17 million.

    _________________________________________________________________________________________

    http://packers.aolsportsblog.com/

    Packers May Release DE Gbaja-Biamila, WR Ferguson

    According to a report by Tom Pelissero of the Green Bay Press Gazette, in addition to tight end Bubba Franks, the Green Bay Packers could release defensive end Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila and wide receiver Robert Ferguson. Gbaja-Biamila (KGB for short) had an awful year last season and apparently the Packers are going to show him no patience. From 2001 to 2004 he was arguably one of the better defensive ends in the league but has slipped significantly since then. Robert Ferguson seems like a more risk-less release. He's played in fewer games each of the last five seasons and his ability has dwindled with the playing time. That culminated last season when he managed to play in only four games while collecting five catches for 31 yards and a single touchdown. Along with Bubba Franks and strong safety Marquand Manuel, who may also be released, the four take up around 11% of the Packers entire salary. Note: While I am no G.M., I think the Packers would be better off if they attempted to trade KGB and Manuel (etc.) before releasing them. Even if they only managed to get a late round draft choice, it's better then nothing.
     
  2. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    Re: PACK:CUT & TRADE VETS KGB, FRANKS, MANUEL & FERGUSON?

    Here again though........these are just the words of a writer giving his thoughts. It doesn't mean it's going to happen.
    I take all i read with a grain of salt.
    Flip a coin and you have just as much chance of getting it right.
     
  3. Green_Bay_Packers

    Green_Bay_Packers Cheesehead

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    PACK:CUT & TRADE VETS KGB, FRANKS, MANUEL & FERGUSON?

    i ain't reading that TOPHAT just stop doing this it is really making me angry and everyone else.
     
  4. TOPHAT

    TOPHAT Cheesehead

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    Re: PACK:CUT & TRADE VETS KGB, FRANKS, MANUEL & FERGUSON?

    I understand...different writing styles for different reading audiences...different strokes for different forums. The threads including the poll "LOCKED OUT", i.e. applying rules depending on who you are in pecking order, are very popular on another well-informed, sophisticated forum.

    Tromadz, in the chat thread, asked that I prepare a summary writing style based upon the cnn sixth grade level boob tube reading level with its simplistic and its black/white civil religion, i.e. kindergarten, audience approach. I will do so for future reference.


    :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
     
  5. Tileman

    Tileman Cheesehead

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    PACK:CUT & TRADE VETS KGB, FRANKS, MANUEL & FERGUSON?

    I think Ferguson is about the only one that has a shot at being cut. I the rest will be on the final roster this fall IMO. And I actually don't have a problem with any of the others mentioned.
     
  6. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Re: PACK:CUT & TRADE VETS KGB, FRANKS, MANUEL & FERGUSON?

    Last edited by TOPHAT on Wed May 30, 2007 06:16 PM; edited 5 time in total

    Couldn't help notice the irony here. Established writer? Five edits and still a plethora of mistakes?

    I can see why you post other peoples articles on forums now instead of ones you have written up yourself. The same reason I do. Although I don't claim fame. :kickcan:
     
  7. dhpackr

    dhpackr Cheesehead

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    Re: PACK:CUT & TRADE VETS KGB, FRANKS, MANUEL & FERGUSON?

    I beg to differ, i feel manuel, franks maybe cut, and fergie makes the team and has a big year
     
  8. Heatherthepackgirl

    Heatherthepackgirl Cheesehead

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    PACK:CUT & TRADE VETS KGB, FRANKS, MANUEL & FERGUSON?

    I think Manuel will get cut, they keep Franks cause we need a tightend, or do we have one? He is also a great blocker for Favre. Also I think we keep Fergie and KGB as well...

    I guess my reasoning is I hate to see old players get cut especially when they have been a Packer for so long..
     
  9. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    PACK:CUT & TRADE VETS KGB, FRANKS, MANUEL & FERGUSON?

    I can see us cutting Manuel or trading him for a 2014 7th round pick. I think we keep KGB and Franks.
     
  10. Schmitty

    Schmitty Cheesehead

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    Re: PACK:CUT & TRADE VETS KGB, FRANKS, MANUEL & FERGUSON?

    I dont think they should cut Franks. He's not washed up yet and is a pretty good blocker. He just needs to get his hands in order and he will be fine.
     
  11. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Re: PACK:CUT & TRADE VETS KGB, FRANKS, MANUEL & FERGUSON?

    I can't.

    Manuel is the only veteran at Safety. Besides that, we have Collins who is entering his third year but is inconsistent, an unknown returning from injury who will be in only his third year that has yet to see any extended field time in his brief NFL career, a rookie with questionable coverage skills, and a 2nd year player that looked good in practice, but never cracked the Safety spot despite some weak play by the safeties for most of the year.

    It is too risky to have your back-up options be a player coming of a major injury, and a second year player that has potential but hasn't gotten himself more playing time (this is assuming that Aaron Rouse starts).

    I'd feel a whole lot more comfortable with someone like Manuel at least on the roster to point things out to the guys and be a safety net, even given all his struggles.

    The guy was a starter on a Superbowl bound team, and that isn't easy. Yes he only became a starter once the original starting S went down (Ken Hamlin, was it?), but it must say something good about him that even with Manuel playing, the Seahawks were good enough to get to the Superbowl.

    Heck, if it comes down to either Manuel or our DB coach Kurt S. being the guys that the other Safeties turn to advice for, I'd rather it be Manuel.
     
  12. PackFanInSC

    PackFanInSC Cheesehead

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    Re: PACK:CUT & TRADE VETS KGB, FRANKS, MANUEL & FERGUSON?


    Tophat,

    Once again,

    Who are you??

    You come cross across so full of yourself -- as though you warrant special treatment because you are, in your mind, a "legendary Packer fan". What exactly makes you more of a fan than anyone else in this forum???
     
  13. vikesrule

    vikesrule Cheesehead

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    Re: PACK:CUT & TRADE VETS KGB, FRANKS, MANUEL & FERGUSON?

    Mr. Pickles half-brother.
     
  14. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Re: PACK:CUT & TRADE VETS KGB, FRANKS, MANUEL & FERGUSON?

    That's the difference between American and Canadian. :p

    j/k


    Of the three if we cut someone, that's my choice. If its true about him being injured then I don't think their's a possibility of him being let go. Thompson thought highly of him (im speculating on the length of his contract, no proof) enough to lock him down for 5 years. But if he wasnt' injured and just sucked it up. I think Marviel or Rause will supplant him.


    Considering our cap situation, or lack there of, I can't see why any of the three should or would be cut unless some other FA off another team comes available or we trade for a heavy contract loaded player, players.
     
  15. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Re: PACK:CUT & TRADE VETS KGB, FRANKS, MANUEL & FERGUSON?

    I agree with Franks, the guy has shown he CAN do what is EXPECTED...

    MM prob will be given one more season to prove he is worthy of the contract he signed and that starting job he had on the SB team for Seattle..

    I think Fergy is going to be shown the door if anyone is going to be cut...
     
  16. gopackgo

    gopackgo Cheesehead

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    Re: PACK:CUT & TRADE VETS KGB, FRANKS, MANUEL & FERGUSON?

    Who cares? If someone is better, they should play. I have zero attachment to Manuel and little for Ferguson. It would sad to see Bubba go, as it was with Henderson, but life goes on. I have had fun watching KGB and Bubba play for us, but if they aren't up to par, they shouldn't be kept around for nostalgia.

    It's not like we are yearning for cap space.
     
  17. Toronto_Cheesehead

    Toronto_Cheesehead Cheesehead

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    Will Pack cut & trade vets KGB, Franks, Manuel & Ferguson?

    Fergy is the only one I can see being cut because we have so many young wide receivers on the roster. The other are all overpaid, but we lack depth at their positions, and they still can be useful parts to the team, whether it be special teams (Manuel), blocking (Franks), or pass rushing (KGB).
     
  18. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    Re: PACK:CUT & TRADE VETS KGB, FRANKS, MANUEL & FERGUSON?

    LOLOLOL!!!!
    So......he's only HALF pickled??? :rotflmao:
     
  19. Tileman

    Tileman Cheesehead

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    Re: PACK:CUT & TRADE VETS KGB, FRANKS, MANUEL & FERGUSON?

    Lets examine the situation, Manuel is a veteran who played much better at the end of the season who's salary in only around 1.3 mil, no way he'll be cut. Franks is the only real TE with experience on the team and is still a good blocker. KGB played pretty good in his new limited role last year as a paas rush specialist.

    Ferguson has done nothing but collect checks on the injured list. I hope like hell he's canned. He's on the top of a long list of Sherman mistakes.
     
  20. Lare

    Lare Cheesehead

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    Re: PACK:CUT & TRADE VETS KGB, FRANKS, MANUEL & FERGUSON?

    I guess I agree with gopackgo. I can't see how these guys making the roster and playing will make any significant difference in the outcome of games as opposed to having their replacements making the roster and playing. And it's not like their salary money would be any better used elsewhere.

    IMO, we need to quit thinking like we did in the 90s where a player here or there could make a difference in how many games we won and where it put us in the playoff scenarios. We now need to think like we did in the 70s & 80s where a player here or there will probably only affect how many games above or below .500 we'll end up.
     
  21. retiredgrampa

    retiredgrampa Cheesehead

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    Re: PACK:CUT & TRADE VETS KGB, FRANKS, MANUEL & FERGUSON?

    I figure Frank's blocking will determine whether he stays or not. TC will tell the coaches if he can still block enough to help. If not, he should go. Manual will probably stay simply due to the uncertainty of talent in the other Ss. KGB should improve his production due to more time off between plays. But this could be his last year. Fergy has angered me every year he's been here. He just can't avoid injury for some reason. Maybe not his fault but in this league, you must produce enough to warrant your pay. He's never done that and should thank the gods daily that he's still drawing game checks. But it is true that replacement of ANY of these guys will depend on whether or not some younger stud can step up and challenge. If not, they're secure.
     
  22. PackerLegend

    PackerLegend Cheesehead

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    Re: PACK:CUT & TRADE VETS KGB, FRANKS, MANUEL & FERGUSON?

    I can easily see Ferguson getting cut and he should, I cant really see Manuel or Franks getting cut but it could happen.

    In order of who is most likely to get the axe.
    1. Ferguson
    2. KGB (money but could easily stay because lack of DE depth/veterans)
    3. Franks (poor play/money)
    4. Manuel (Doubtful at most will be backup)
     
  23. RainX

    RainX Cheesehead

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    Will Pack cut & trade vets KGB, Franks, Manuel & Ferguson?

    Fergy - Most likely to get cut. The youth at WR and value of roster spots on top of his bloated cap number could make him expendable before the final cut down date. He'll get at least training camp to show he's worth keeping around though.

    KGB - Beyond Kampman and Jenkins, we'd only have Montgomery and Hunter on the depth chart who have any NFL experience at DE if we cut him. KGB's biggest knock is his 5 million dollar base salary he's due this season, but considering the insane FA market with increasing cap space, it might not seem all that bad after all. His reduced roll could benefit him over the course of a season and actually make him or more productive player.

    Manuel - Safety is always a concern, and his cap number isn't ludicrously high, even if he makes the team in a reserve SS/special teams roll. His experience is a plus even if it hasn't really been reflected to much in his overall production. Unless guys like Rouse, Culver, and Underwood absolutely rip it up in training camp and completely out play him, I still see an '07 roster spot in his future.

    Franks - The least likely of the four to get the axe in my mind. We've barely seen anything from Alcorn, Humphrey, and Harris to justify cutting him so far. He's also still relatively early on in his contract he signed in '05, so the cap hit we'd take would be pretty high if we release him before the beginning of the season. He still had value as a blocker and if he can recapture some of that red zone magic, his experience is an asset to the team. He may lose his starting roll to Lee, but he's no a bad #2 option at TE in my book.
     
  24. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    Will Pack cut & trade vets KGB, Franks, Manuel & Ferguson?

    apparently KGB got pulled out after jumping offsides a couple times in the OTAs.

    he was playing on second string.

    If a guy gets sat down because hes not playing well on the second string, and he earns more than the entire second string defense.... then we have a serious problem there.

    i think in order of probability of being cut its thist.

    1. Ferguson
    2. KGB
    a wide gap
    3. Franks
    an even wider gap
    4. Manuel.
     
  25. dhpackr

    dhpackr Cheesehead

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    Re: PACK:CUT & TRADE VETS KGB, FRANKS, MANUEL & FERGUSON?

    Manuel just can't run or tackle. he is a weak link on the defence. We drafted a saftey in the third round who is big and athletic, teamed with collins the pair could bring some serious pain to opposing TE, and RB. KGB is sliding down the depth chart and is now playing with the third string defence.
    Fergie hasn't taken the feild yet, but he is 6' 1" and has built himself up to 220 lbs. he still runs a 4.4 40 and he had great hands. Fergie wasn't able to stay healthy. He says he is ready to turnover a new leaf.
    http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=607970
     

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