Pack and BJ close to1 year deal

rodell330

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If Raji was worth 8 mil a yr i'd notice he was in the game. The only time i remember him doing anything was when he pushed an Atlanta player after the whistle and almost cost us 15 yds.
 
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No way Raji is worth $8 million a year. But if the Packers let him go they will have to acquire some big bodies this offseason, with Pickett (nearly 35 at the start of next season) and Jolly (31) both up in age.
 

rodell330

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No way Raji is worth $8 million a year. But if the Packers let him go they will have to acquire some big bodies this offseason, with Pickett (nearly 35 at the start of next season) and Jolly (31) both up in age.

Plenty of fat bodied guys will be available for alot less trust me. Raji seems like a teddy bear of a guy but he's all of a sudden started playing like one to. Good luck to him elsewhere for 8 mil a yr. Then again..TT over spent big time to bring back Brad "injured again" Jones of all people so you never know.
 
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Plenty of fat bodied guys will be available for alot less trust me.

Yeah, but if we don´t draft them I don´t see TT signing any free agents.

TT over spent big time to bring back Brad "injured again" Jones of all people so you never know.

Well, Jones played pretty well in 2012, especially in run defense. But I was surprised as well when they signed him to that contract.
 

adambr2

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Watching the ATL game replay, I made a point of rewinding each play to see what Raji was doing.

I did not take a snap count, but I'd guess he was out there for about 40 of ATL's 59 snaps. I believe he played every base snap, at RDE about 75% of the time, LDE for a few snaps and one snap at NT. He was in the nickel pass rush rotation with a fair number of snaps there. Here are my observations:

In about 2/3 of his snaps in a combination of base and nickel, run and pass, Raji was one-on-one with ATL's LG #63, Justin Blaylock, a decent player but no Pro Bowler. Raji was beaten on every one of those snaps, and Blaylock did not look like he was working that hard at it. In the first possession alone, Blaylock spun him around on a 4 yard gain and knocked him on his keester for an 8 yard gain on runs right at him. In the subsequent possession, Blalock put him on his knees where he was able to clog the hole so Jolly could make the tackle from the backside. I believe that was Raji's one assist. If one wanted to make the case that Raji got the better of Blaylock at least once, that's the closest play you'll find.

Raji was so ineffective in the passing game, by the 4th. quarter Blalock twice passed him off to the center to move out and double team Matthews off the edge. The center had no problem with him either. In case anybody's wondering, it looked like Daniels was the D-Line guy ATL targeted most often for double teams in the pass game.

As for this drawing double teams / clogging holes stuff we hear so much about, ATL certainly did not find it necessary and they were right. I saw only one clear run double team, that being in the 4th quarter where Raji had flipped sides to the LDE working against a familiar name, Konz at RG (evidently playing out of his regular position) together with the RT.

That's it...one run double team. I counted 2 pass double teams in the second half. It is unclear why ATL bothered.

Other than those 3 plays the closest things to double teams were (1) a pass rush where the center chipped in to help Blalock who didn't need it; the C was just looking for work, (2) two linemen might have been diving at Raji's feet on the goal line play action TD pass, but who can tell without the end zone shot (besides, that's what's done on the goal line regardless of who's in there) and (3) a play where Blalock passed Raji off to the RT away from the play to get out in front of a screen on the opposite side (calling that a double team would be stretch, but at least ATL had enough respect to put the OT on him to shut off Raji's back side pursuit).

Raji made one play in this game...he beat the RG, possible Konz but I did not catch the number, with an inside rush move to get a hit on Ryan resulting in an incompletion.

That's it.

In fact, Raji was not on the field in the final series of ATL's second to last possession where we stopped them, resulting in the missed 52 yarder. Raji was not on the field for the final two plays of ATL's final possession.

As far as I'm concerned, this is typical Raji play since the 2nd. half of the Bears game and, quite frankly, for a good part of the last 3 seasons.

I wouldn't pay him anything. You can't give him a typical $8 million/year deal because he's clearly nowhere near worth it. You can't give him a number significantly below that, because even if he took it (which he won't), he'll be both underachieving and pissed off.

Mark this down...Raji will not be on this team in 2014. Somebody will pay him more than he's worth and it won't be us.

Good analysis and reflects what I've been saying about Raji all along.

BJ Raji, simply put, is not very good. He does not demand the double teams that are expected from him. He does not typically have a big influence in either defending the run or pass. I have tried to explain this point many times, but many of those who still have the misconception of Raji's value are simply not going to be convinced. Raji has never been a stat guy, so it's tough to explain his lack of value with stats. Watch the tape. He continues to get overrated based on a few different things:

1) His 2010 season
2) His draft position
3) Every once in awhile, he'll have a good game, like any other starting player, where he will seem to live up to his potential.

If this is how Raji performs in a contract year, I hate to see how he's going to do once he gets paid.

I sincerely hope we are not the ones to do so. We have real needs right now with our salary cap space. Shields is
a FA, Jones is a FA, EDS is a FA, Cobb and Nelson will be FA's after next season. I will be sorely disappointed if we pay top dollar to a guy who not only has no value, but by his very presence keeps us from improving at his position since we're obligated to start him.

Let him walk and happily take the mid round comp pick. Save money and hopefully add a better player.
 

rodell330

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Yeah, but if we don´t draft them I don´t see TT signing any free agents.



Well, Jones played pretty well in 2012, especially in run defense. But I was surprised as well when they signed him to that contract.


TT sign a free agent? bahahaha! not likely...maybe he takes a couple via draft next yr. Add a healthy Worthy to the mix i think we are ok there. I'm more concerned about olb and safety then anything. Perry shows flashes but he's guaranteed to miss time for an injury...same thing can be said about Clay Matthews as well.
 
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TT sign a free agent? bahahaha! not likely...maybe he takes a couple via draft next yr. Add a healthy Worthy to the mix i think we are ok there. I'm more concerned about olb and safety then anything. Perry shows flashes but he's guaranteed to miss time for an injury...same thing can be said about Clay Matthews as well.

Worthy is too small to replace Raji. And he was the worst player on the DL last season.
 

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Watching the ATL game replay, I made a point of rewinding each play to see what Raji was doing.

I did not take a snap count, but I'd guess he was out there for about 40 of ATL's 59 snaps. I believe he played every base snap, at RDE about 75% of the time, LDE for a few snaps and one snap at NT. He was in the nickel pass rush rotation with a fair number of snaps there. Here are my observations:

In about 2/3 of his snaps in a combination of base and nickel, run and pass, Raji was one-on-one with ATL's LG #63, Justin Blaylock, a decent player but no Pro Bowler. Raji was beaten on every one of those snaps, and Blaylock did not look like he was working that hard at it. In the first possession alone, Blaylock spun him around on a 4 yard gain and knocked him on his keester for an 8 yard gain on runs right at him. In the subsequent possession, Blalock put him on his knees where he was able to clog the hole so Jolly could make the tackle from the backside. I believe that was Raji's one assist. If one wanted to make the case that Raji got the better of Blaylock at least once, that's the closest play you'll find.

Raji was so ineffective in the passing game, by the 4th. quarter Blalock twice passed him off to the center to move out and double team Matthews off the edge. The center had no problem with him either. In case anybody's wondering, it looked like Daniels was the D-Line guy ATL targeted most often for double teams in the pass game.

As for this drawing double teams / clogging holes stuff we hear so much about, ATL certainly did not find it necessary and they were right. I saw only one clear run double team, that being in the 4th quarter where Raji had flipped sides to the LDE working against a familiar name, Konz at RG (evidently playing out of his regular position) together with the RT.

That's it...one run double team. I counted 2 pass double teams in the second half. It is unclear why ATL bothered.

Other than those 3 plays the closest things to double teams were (1) a pass rush where the center chipped in to help Blalock who didn't need it; the C was just looking for work, (2) two linemen might have been diving at Raji's feet on the goal line play action TD pass, but who can tell without the end zone shot (besides, that's what's done on the goal line regardless of who's in there) and (3) a play where Blalock passed Raji off to the RT away from the play to get out in front of a screen on the opposite side (calling that a double team would be stretch, but at least ATL had enough respect to put the OT on him to shut off Raji's back side pursuit).

Raji made one play in this game...he beat the RG, possible Konz but I did not catch the number, with an inside rush move to get a hit on Ryan resulting in an incompletion.

That's it.

In fact, Raji was not on the field in the final series of ATL's second to last possession where we stopped them, resulting in the missed 52 yarder. Raji was not on the field for the final two plays of ATL's final possession.

As far as I'm concerned, this is typical Raji play since the 2nd. half of the Bears game and, quite frankly, for a good part of the last 3 seasons.

I wouldn't pay him anything. You can't give him a typical $8 million/year deal because he's clearly nowhere near worth it. You can't give him a number significantly below that, because even if he took it (which he won't), he'll be both underachieving and pissed off.

Mark this down...Raji will not be on this team in 2014. Somebody will pay him more than he's worth and it won't be us.
Good stuff here. Things many of us felt but didn't have the number to confirm.
 
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I am increasingly convinced of a speculation I posted earlier...the rumored $8 million/year offer was designed to be refused by being light on the signing bonus and guarantees. Leak an unqualified per year figure that looks to the fans like a bona fide offer; make the bonus and guarantee light so the guy will turn it down.

This or may not be the case, but the logic of it is compelling. This certainly could have been the case with Jenning's rumored $10 million pre-2012 offer. If so, the desired affect would have been achieved with Jenning's painted as the greedy bad guy, though his reaction to the subsequent lower post-injury offer certainly didn't help his case.
 
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H

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You don't pay a guy $8 million per year just because there are no readily available options. I wouldn't go over $5 mil even in desperation...a amount he would not accept anyway.

Caper's oft repeated "good soldier" defense of Raji's performance is, in my opinion, just one more reason to cast doubt on Caper's viability.
 
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He continues to get overrated based on a few different things:

1) His 2010 season
2) His draft position
3) Every once in awhile, he'll have a good game, like any other starting player, where he will seem to live up to his potential.

That's it...right there.
 

adambr2

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He does in base defense, but you want bigger guys at DE than Worthy in a base 3-4.

In fairness to him, Raji doesn't do much more than warmly embrace the single guard opposing him the entire game. Any size individual can accomplish that.
 

yooperpackfan

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I am increasingly convinced of a speculation I posted earlier...the rumored $8 million/year offer was designed to be refused by being light on the signing bonus and guarantees. Leak an unqualified per year figure that looks to the fans like a bona fide offer; make the bonus and guarantee light so the guy will turn it down.

This or may not be the case, but the logic of it is compelling. This certainly could have been the case with Jenning's rumored $10 million pre-2012 offer. If so, the desired affect would have been achieved with Jenning's painted as the greedy bad guy, though his reaction to the subsequent lower post-injury offer certainly didn't help his case.
I like it.
Masterful strategy!
Bye-bye B.J.
 
H

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I thought Raji played DE most of the time?

Well, I've been piling on to this point, so I might as well finish the job.

In base D, he's played DE nearly all of the time this season, and increasingly for going on 3 seasons now. Nowadays he takes the NT spot in base only when Pickett needs a blow or hobbles off on that bad knee. It's interesting that many fans think he's a nose tackle when clearly he is not.

And here's the kicker...he's playing the weak side, RDE, more than LDE. Jolly's holding down the run stopper role on the strong side more often these days. Datone Jones and Worthy would be the logical replacement at RDE.
 
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Jolly's play this season makes him a "must sign" and he won't break the bank. If he doesn't take a little home town discount given what's transpired, there is no justice .

That really leave's Pickett as the front line guy to worry about. I'm more concerned about his knee than his age. If he's still willing to play, I'd sign him to a modest contract which would be typical for a guy his age, but count on him only for spot duty and insurance to save on wear and tear. Something tells me he's taking the needle on that knee every week now. We'll need to find one big body to take his spot in the starting lineup, and I doubt that can be Boyd.
He does in base defense, but you want bigger guys at DE than Worthy in a base 3-4.

This is a frequently overlooked fact, but there is no other 3-4 D that goes this big across the front 3 in base. NT, sure. Strong side LDE, often. Weak side...not so much. The trend has been to have a rangy (with "length" as they say), lighter, quicker guy on the weak side. The Packers said they wanted to go in that direction when they drafted Jones. That was kind of an interesting head scratcher considering the guy we won the SB with at the position was 6'3, 295 lbs. Jones is 6'4, and according to one report he's managed to bulk up to 295 lbs. Jones is supposed to be the new Cullen Jenkins with a bit more arm length. I don't know how this is so frequently overlooked.
 
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rodell330

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Jolly's play this season makes him a "must sign" and he won't break the bank. If he doesn't take a little home town discount given what's transpired, there is no justice .

That really leave's Pickett as the front line guy to worry about. I'm more concerned about his knee than his age. If he's still willing to play, I'd sign him to a modest contract which would be typical for a guy his age, but count on him only for spot duty and insurance to save on wear and tear. Something tells me he's taking the needle on that knee every week now. We'll need to find one big body to take his spot in the starting lineup, and I doubt that can be Boyd.


This is a frequently overlooked fact, but there is no other 3-4 D that goes this big across the front 3 in base. NT, sure. Strong side LDE, often. Weak side...not so much. The trend has been to have a rangy (with "length" as they say), lighter, quicker guy on the weak side. The Packers said they wanted to go in that direction when they drafted Jones. That was kind of an interesting head scratcher considering the guy we won the SB with at the position was 6'3, 295 lbs. Jones is 6'4, and according to one report he's managed to bulk up to 295 lbs. Jones is supposed to be the new Cullen Jenkins with a bit more arm length. I don't know how this is so frequently overlooked.


Oh i'd be delighted if Jones turns out to be the replacement for Cullen Jenkins because i'm still waiting. Jenkins was solid against the run and he could rush the qb. I keep hearing how great Jones is but i havn't seen much with my own two eyes.
 
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HardRightEdge

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Oh i'd be delighted if Jones turns out to be the replacement for Cullen Jenkins because i'm still waiting. Jenkins was solid against the run and he could rush the qb. I keep hearing how great Jones is but i havn't seen much with my own two eyes.

You're right; Jones has not shown us much and his snaps seem to be going down. That wasn't the point, though.

My point was about what he's supposed to be...which tells us what the Packers think about the necessity of having 3 big bodies on the base D-Line.

You know, I had written off Perry as a one-trick pony with just a bull rush. My eyes got big when I saw him do a lean-and-dip under the RT's right pad, turning the corner clean, when I went through the ATL game replay. That was the first bonafide edge rush move with burst I've seen out of him...coming out of nowhere in mid-season, no less. Granted, the right side of the ATL line was backups and guys out of position (who we beat up on all day, by the way), but the move was impressive nonetheless. I'm optimistic enough, and not so inflexible in my opinions, to see a flash of promise that he'll justify his draft position.

I'm going to further reserve judgement on Jones, a pick I view with some skepticism, for one more season.
 
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rodell330

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You're right; Jones has not shown us much and his snaps seem to be going down. That wasn't the point, though.

My point was about what he's supposed to be...which tells us what the Packers think about the necessity of having 3 big bodies on the base D-Line.

You know, I had written off Perry as a one-trick pony with just a bull rush. My eyes got big when I saw him do a lean-and-dip under the RT's right pad, turning the corner clean, when I went through the ATL game replay. That was the first bonafide edge rush move with burst I've seen out of him...coming out of nowhere in mid-season, no less. Granted, the right side of the ATL line was backups and guys out of position (who we beat up on all day, by the way), but the move was impressive nonetheless. I'm optimistic enough, and not so inflexible in my opinions, to not see a flash of promise that he'll justify his draft position.

I'm going to further reserve judgement on Jones, a pick I view with some skepticism, for one more season.


Fair enough.
 

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If it’s not a lack of effort and motivation with Raji, what is it? We all saw what he is capable of doing in 2010. As adambr2 posted, now we see flashes of that once in a while. Is his ankle or another injury still bothering him? If so has it been a muli-season problem? He was playing too many snaps in past seasons but that’s no longer the case and it is a contract year for him. I hope HRE is correct about the contract offer and it amounts to a low-ball offer or the guaranteed money is such that it’s a one year deal. But even a one year deal would make sense only if Raji’s lack of production is due to injury. If it’s not due to injury, we have already seen his level of motivation in a contract year.

McGinn offers confirmation of what HRE posted and what we’ve been watching. Here are some comments about Raji in his last four game reviews:
Falcons game: “The only pressure by a D-lineman was by B.J. Raji (35), who beat Konz up the field. It was his best rush in weeks. It once was a given that Raji would be on the field for every important snap. That's no longer the case.”
Lions game: McGinn says he was only displaced a couple of times but was handled too often by Sims alone on running plays.
Vikings game: “Raji beat RG Brandon Fusco, an improving player, for a tackle for loss. As a rusher, he hasn't been winning one-on-one or collapsing the pocket against double teams.”
Giants game: “C.J. Wilson logged a season-high 22 snaps and found the ball carrier more than B.J. Raji (44), Ryan Pickett (36) and Jolly did. The starters didn't register a tackle, but Raji and Pickett each had a pressure.”

Search “McGinn rating Falcons” on the jsonline website for the reviews (changing the opponent’s name for that review of course).
 

rodell330

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Weren't the red flags we're seeing raised before the draft on Raji? I seem to remember doubts on him.


Yea that he could sometimes take plays of and seem lazy. Maybe he's just not as motivated as he used to be i don't know. When he first got here i was like this guy will be good for a long time. He Showed burst, strength, and usually had to be doubled..he was just disruptive, like in the Bears game earlier this year. Maybe he's playing not to get injured so it doesn't hurt his stock in the off season. IDK
 

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