Our Safeties

[adambr2]

FWIW... I meant that the deal was a gamble in that TT was paying "below market rate" if they turned out to be the player the thought they'd be. So, pay now, but save later if they pan out. Kind of like the Jordy deal. Jordy looked like a great option, but wasn't elite yet. So, pay less now and hope he pans out. He did, making his deal a below market rate.

It's worked out pretty well with the receivers (Nelson, Jones), but not so well on defense (Burnett, Jones).

 

[NOMOFO]

I don't disagree that our secondary in general was very bad this year. Having said that, we have to be honest here, there was just absolutely zero pass rush for most of the year. Somebody pointed out that we had a decent amount of sacks but I think that's just about as misleading as any stat in the NFL. Besides, how many sacks did we have when Matthews wasn't on the field? If we had even a marginally decent pass rush our secondary would be "better".

Trust me, Capers knows going in just exactly what he will and won't be able to do by way of the pass rush. Those guys would be playing much different if we knew the QB would be rushed.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Packers are almost married to Burnett(with dead money) so they need a Strong Safety.

I go back and forth on whether Burnett is better suited to free or strong. Early on he looked like a hard nosed tackler; not so much after the injury. On the other hand, he seems to make more than his share of bad judgements in coverage which casts doubt on his ability to be calling the backfield in the first place.

I'm not sure if Burnett is not a smart football player or a sufficiently instinctual football player or just not smart enough to be calling Capers' D. I suspect he'd play better without having to get mentally bound up in the calls. I sense if he could just go play his hitting would improve.

Unfortunately, he's been paid to play FS.

Capers has commented in past years that the safeties should be interchangeable. We've not heard that in quite a while; maybe that's a reality check taken against some ideal, or maybe it's a realization that it buys you jacks of all trades and masters of none, or maybe he was spoiled by Collins and thought we could coach up 2 hit-blitz-and-cover guys.

I would prefer to never again have to conjecture what Capers is thinking, but I don't hold out a lot of hope.

 

[HardRightEdge]

It's worked out pretty well with the receivers (Nelson, Jones), but not so well on defense (Burnett, Jones).

We blitz a lot. That generates more "pressure", or so the theory goes, but it also exposes the back 6 or 5 or 4.

I see the problem more in the front than the back; if we could get a consistent rush with 4, the backfield would look a lot better.

 

[brandon2348]

I go back and forth on whether Burnett is better suited to free or strong. Early on he looked like a hard nosed tackler; not so much after the injury. On the other hand, he seems to make more than his share of bad judgements in coverage which casts doubt on his ability to be calling the backfield in the first place.

I'm not sure if Burnett is not a smart football player or a sufficiently instinctual football player or just not smart enough to be calling Capers' D. I suspect he'd play better without having to get mentally bound up in the calls. I sense if he could just go play his hitting would improve.

Unfortunately, he's been paid to play FS.

Capers has commented in past years that the safeties should be interchangeable. We've not heard that in quite a while; maybe that's a reality check taken against some ideal, or maybe it's a realization that it buys you jacks of all trades and masters of none, or maybe he was spoiled by Collins and thought we could coach up 2 hit-blitz-and-cover guys.

I would prefer to never again have to conjecture what Capers is thinking, but I don't hold out a lot of hope.

 

[brandon2348]

Well a mistake was made paying him last year I think, should of signed and paid Shields instead. Now in reality two safeties are needed because I feel no.1 problem with D this year was Safety play. It was horrendous and the numbers speak for themselves. I suppose everyone is just gonna have to cross there fingers Burnett gets better cause it will be a 2 mill hit against the cap to get rid of him. Hopefully packers can strike gold in draft with a guy like Deone Bucannon, Washington State (SS) 2-3 round guy. I have seen this guy play and he brings it.

 

[Carl]

Maybe Hyde can be a good safety, but then again he also could end up a very good corner so we may want to leave him there.

 

[brandon2348]

Hyde was a great find but I think he is more of a situational player. They used him in the slot a lot this year with injury to Hayward. Not sure he could make the move to corner or an every down SS. Needs to get stronger.

 

[FrankRizzo]

Just saw this on twitter:

M.D. Jennings had the third highest QB rating against amongst all safeties: 148.8.
Burnett was eighth highest: 138.0.

Zero INTs all season. Proof they can't cover. Burnett was slow to react and/or get to VD on the TD in the 4Q. And neither are good tacklers. Just about as bad of safety play as you could get.

This position is our number 1 priority to improve next season. And it's not close anymore in my opinion.

More from Twitter and PFF, B/R:

In regards to the last two years and fixing the defense, the players drafted had to make an immediate impact because there were no quality players in front of them or free-agents coming in.

Exactly.

Tramon alluded to this today or yesterday, when he said the problem with youngsters is it takes them time to learn the defense, the scheme, etc.

Teddy T banked on his youngsters, draft picks Morgan Burnett, Jerron McMillian, and MD Jennings, to be able to anchod the hole at the back of the D.
They obviously crashed and burned, badly.

Either Darren Perry coached em bad, or Teddy T simply overrated their skill, beit physical or mental, or a combination. But the results are in, and they are ugly. Failure.
Not only are they the first group of safeties in memory to NOT PICK OFF A SINGLE PASS, they also are not good tacklers.

You've all seen Burnett miss tackles. He also took a horrible angle on the play where Kaepernick ran for 50 on that last drive. Huge mistake. And he's the best of the group, and this was his 4th year already.

Morgan Burnett Career Statistics
G Tkl INT PD FF
2010 4* 12 1 1 0
2011 16 107 3 11 2
2012 16 12 3 25 2
2013 13 96 0 5 0
*Tore ACL in Week 4

In all of Burnett's tackles this year, 96, good for 2nd on the team, he forced a total of zero fumbles in addition to his interception total of 0.

"There are no dominant traits," an AFC personnel man told Bob McGinn of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. "He won't be a difference-maker, but he isn't going to hurt you, either."

Well that's not entirely true as he took a bad angle helping on the touchdown pass to Vernon Davis Sunday night. See below:

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Nick Collins from a similar position would have at least broken it up, and possibly picked it off.

Burnett, who was amazingly given a Collins-like extension last off-season, missed 11 combined tackles, which trailed only A.J. Hawk's 13, per Pro Football Focus.
Opposing QB's targeted him 40 times, completing 29 for 414 yards and 4 touchdowns, and obviously 0 Ints.
His passer rating-against was 135.8.
That's much higher than Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers best MVP seasons.

Again, PFF might not be 100% accurate, but you can tell by the results of our games that it was pretty close in grading Morgan.

The scariest thing of all? Burnett is our BEST one.
Well, unless Sean Richardson can stay healthy and show something.

What about the other starter, MD Jennings? Remember they were hoping and expecting Jerron McMillian might be that other starter. He was bad enough they actually released him during the season. Unheard of for Ted Thompson, especially with a fairly high draft pick of his.

Packers S M.D. Jennings, 2013 Season
Totals
Snaps: 855
Tackles: 74
Passes Defensed: 0
INTs :0
Forced Fumbles: 0
TD Passes Allowed: 5
Passer Rating Against: 148.8

Source: Pro Football Focus

Here's much more about how horrific these safeties are/were.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1913962-fixing-the-green-bay-packers-defense-must-start-at-safety

The Packers completely avoided adding a safety in the 2013 NFL draft, despite the fact that many believed the class was unusually loaded at the position. For example, Green Bay took UCLA defensive end Datone Jones in the first round, while Florida's Matt Elam and Florida International's John Cyprien came off the board shortly after.

Overall, 12 safeties were drafted in the first four rounds. Thompson didn't contribute to that total.

 

[raj34]

Maybe Hyde can be a good safety, but then again he also could end up a very good corner so we may want to leave him there.

Hyde is way too slow to be a useful corner. One of the recurrent images of the 2013 season to me will be Hyde vainly pursuing wide open receivers. We should try him at safety.

 

[Carl]

Hyde is way too slow to be a useful corner. One of the recurrent images of the 2013 season to me will be Hyde vainly pursuing wide open receivers. We should try him at safety.

You must have been watching a different Hyde all year. I think he's got a good future at corner.

 

[FrankRizzo]

You must have been watching a different Hyde all year. I think he's got a good future at corner.

I love Hyde because he's what NO OTHER DBs of ours are: Physical.

I want to see him at safety next year though, at least give him a look there.
When Hayward is back.

 

[AmishMafia]

You must have been watching a different Hyde all year. I think he's got a good future at corner.

I scratch my head sometimes that people see things so differently. I agree, Hyde was impressive as a CB.

 

[easyk83]

I scratch my head sometimes that people see things so differently. I agree, Hyde was impressive as a CB.

I think he played well at Corner as well. But many, including me, think he has a future at safety.

 

[7thFloorRA]

There is alot to like about Hyde. He is naturally instinctive, physical, nose for the ball and seems smart. He does profile better as a safety though because teams will create match ups to exploit his lack of speed. At safety your intelligence puts you in the correct place more than your speed. He can also tackle which is something neither of the 2 starting safeties seem to have any idea how to do right now.

 

[brandon2348]

Everyone. Hyde is not a true corner. Doesn't have the wheels to be a man cover up corner. He is a great mid round find but is a Safety at best. A healthy Hayward has better chance of playing corner.

 

[Carl]

Everyone. Hyde is not a true corner. Doesn't have the wheels to be a man cover up corner. He is a great mid round find but is a Safety at best. A healthy Hayward has better chance of playing corner.

Like the barn burning speed of Al Harris? Hyde's fast enough to play corner.

 

[FrankRizzo]

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[brandon2348]

They're horrible.

Losing Nick Collins was devastating.

Not getting one of the many real good safeties in the past 2 drafts was, perhaps, a mistake.

At least Teddy locked up Burnett with a nice new rich long contract before this season. So he's here to stay for awhile.

I hate the niners more

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[brandon2348]

I cant handle Pack losing to 40-whinners,

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[raj34]

You must have been watching a different Hyde all year. I think he's got a good future at corner.

I just check Hyde's grade at ProFootballFocus, and it seems I was a tad too harsh in my assessment.

I would still like him to displace either one of the wonder twins at safety though.

 

[brandon2348]

I just check Hyde's grade at ProFootballFocus, and it seems I was a tad too harsh in my assessment.

I would still like him to displace either one of the wonder twins at safety though.

Yeah I am all over Hyde as a safety. He is just a rookie and had a super successful season(wish he wud of caught that ball though) He not afraid to hit. Hyde just needs to get stronger which he will.

 

[FrankRizzo]

- Hard to believe Teddy selected House over Richard Sherman in 2011. Draft is his forte.
+But he did get us a good little one in Casey Hayward in 2012, although we haven't seen him for a long time.

Anyway, those are CBs.

Since our safeties are atrocious, I think it makes sense seeing what Hyde can do at safety.
He's smart, and he's physical.

If we keep Shields, with Tramon, and Hayward and House, that's a decent 4.
Hyde and Burnett or Richardson.... dispose of MD. Draft one high or sign a good FA S like Whitner or Pollard, an affordable one unlike J Byrd.

 

[brandon2348]

- Hard to believe Teddy selected House over Richard Sherman in 2011. Draft is his forte.
+But he did get us a good little one in Casey Hayward in 2012, although we haven't seen him for a long time.

Anyway, those are CBs.

Since our safeties are atrocious, I think it makes sense seeing what Hyde can do at safety.
He's smart, and he's physical.

If we keep Shields, with Tramon, and Hayward and House, that's a decent 4.
Hyde and Burnett or Richardson.... dispose of MD. Draft one high or sign a good FA S like Whitner or Pollard, an affordable one unlike J Byrd.

Yeah but Williams is set to get 9 million and Shields wants that kind of money. Jennings shouldn't even be in the discussion to be on team IMO. House has the tools and looks great at times but needs to be more consistent. I think Packers drafted Hyde to be a safety eventually. I loved Hayward last year and hope he can come back from injury. Still need a "Ball Buster" strong safety. I like Pollard over Whitner because he is better in pass coverage. Has a super bowl ring too.

Draft: Dix doesn't help really because he figures to be a free safety. The two guys I like are Deone Bucannon(WSU) or Calvin Pryor out of Louisville. Both big hitters who are fast. We could probably get either in second round. If they can get trade up a few like they did with Clay and get "Mosley" in 1st I would be happy. I am drifting here but the big question is can they sign Shields and also Keep Williams?

 

[ivo610]

So what's the problem with Raji? Lazy? Peaked very early in his career? Just played over his head in 2010?

I'm not a fan of Raji at all anymore, but I thought he would have a really good year this year for no other reason than it being a contract year.

peaked early imo