Our Defensive Scheme and Execution is what is hurting GB

[HardRightEdge]

I'll take butlers word it wasn't his fault

Have it your way. Or instead, trust your own eyes.

 

[longtimefan]

Have it your way. Or instead, trust your own eyes.

maybe the inside info helps

 

[mradtke66]

Have it your way. Or instead, trust your own eyes.

The premise of Butler saying, "Not Kings fault," came from his film study. During his thing with Tom Oats. For the following, I'm presuming Butler has the details right.

You are correct that there were no high safeties, but that wasn't the playcall. The analysis was quarters coverage. King and Alexander have the deep outsides, the safeties each have 1/2 of the deep middle.

The offensive playcall was playaction. Both safeties bite hard and vacate their zone. And Kittle is wide open, but the fault lies on the two safeties who aren't covering anyone.

I believe Butler to be correct. His experience and insight should carry some weight.

The play otherwise looks like quarters to me as well.

 

[gopkrs]

Last year with less talent, I saw us running all over the place, helping each other out...swarming. Maybe Pettine should go back up in the booth.

 

[longtimefan]

Last year with less talent, I saw us running all over the place, helping each other out...swarming. Maybe Pettine should go back up in the booth.

He said he loved it upstairs...he could lay out his plays all over his desk up there...

 

[HardRightEdge]

The premise of Butler saying, "Not Kings fault," came from his film study. During his thing with Tom Oats. For the following, I'm presuming Butler has the details right.

You are correct that there were no high safeties, but that wasn't the playcall. The analysis was quarters coverage. King and Alexander have the deep outsides, the safeties each have 1/2 of the deep middle.

The offensive playcall was playaction. Both safeties bite hard and vacate their zone. And Kittle is wide open, but the fault lies on the two safeties who aren't covering anyone.

I believe Butler to be correct. His experience and insight should carry some weight.

The play otherwise looks like quarters to me as well.

It was man coverage. Nobody's dropping in quarters unless it was King. King saw a guy with steps going down the sidelines to the side of the rollout and left his guy.

 

[HardRightEdge]

maybe the inside info helps

Myabe looking at the replay numerous times helps.

 

[longtimefan]

Myabe looking at the replay numerous times helps.

I'll take butlers word and as stated, he has inside info.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I'll take butlers word and as stated, he has inside info.

So, I looked at the first minute of Leroy's chalk talk. He said the 4 DBs should have been in quarters coverage. He's drew his lines showing everybody should have been dropping. The DBs should not be defending the run. Well, that's one OK, one way to play D, but that wasn't the call.

LeRoy is saying what the defensive call should have been, not what it was.

Now, lets say everybody was mistaken except King. Evrybody but King blew the assignment. Everybody was supposed to be in quarters coverage but didn't get the memo. Well, King's got all his teammates in front of him. He's dropping and should see nobody else is. He can't let Kittle just run free.

I have no problem with Butler's take. That's one way to play coverage out of base D on 1st. and 10 against an 8 man line. That isn't this and I'm not sure why you guys don't get that.

 

[gopkrs]

Was looking for a emoji of beating a dead horse.

 

[longtimefan]

 

[pacmaniac]

He said he loved it upstairs...he could lay out his plays all over his desk up there...

He said he wanted to be on the sideline this season because it takes him too long to get from the booth into the locker room at halftime to discuss things with players.

 

[mradtke66]

It was man coverage.

On what do you base this?

 

[GreenNGold_81]

I might agree with the OP's point if the defense still sucks despite actually having talented players at middle linebacker. My understanding is that the linebackers are what is supposed to make this scheme work - we have not had a somewhat decent middle linebacker since Bishop (yes, over Barnett and Hawk) and when Clay Matthews played there.
This year Martinez is proving he's J.A.G. and he has no partner that's worth mentioning.

 

[OldSchool101]

Watching King closely today..I have no reason to defend him if he’s that bad. But I watched 4 separate games today and I still don’t think he’s nearly as bad as people are making him. Just kinda looking around the league he played about average.
He had another takeaway..#5! If he’s so lucky then why does he get credit for times he gets burned, but when it’s a good play like his 5th INT he’s just “lucky”
He also got a QB hit but they gave the second guy credit, which made absolutely no sense.
The couple of passes he got beat? He was like glue on a absolutely non defendable perfect pass down the sideline.
The TD catch he was slightly out of position, but in those conditions? Really nothing that unusual IMO. That throw was heavy inside and nicely thrown. It wasn’t an easy play to defend for any CB.

 

[Mondio]

Watching King closely today..I have no reason to defend him if he’s that bad. But I watched 4 separate games today and I still don’t think he’s nearly as bad as people are making him. Just kinda looking around the league he played about average.
He had another takeaway..#5! If he’s so lucky then why does he get credit for times he gets burned, but when it’s a good play like his 5th INT he’s just “lucky”
He also got a QB hit but they gave the second guy credit, which made absolutely no sense.
The couple of passes he got beat? He was like glue on a absolutely non defendable perfect pass down the sideline.
The TD catch he was slightly out of position, but in those conditions? Really nothing that unusual IMO. That throw was heavy inside and nicely thrown. It wasn’t an easy play to defend for any CB.

He's not that bad. By this point it's fairly obvious most "fans" don't even know what they're looking at anymore. The scored that TD and the shoutbox erupts with "soft zone" comments LOL.

By all accounts he had pretty good coverage. it wasn't perfect, it never is, by anyone on every play. not even close. It had to be a great pass and a great catch and they made it.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

I don't think we can be too ******* King, at this point, I'm happy if he survives the bumps and bruises of a full season and has shown some upside at the position - which he has. He's a player in progress who I don't think is in need of replacement.

 

[TDF]

Here is my take on the defense guys:
From what I’ve seen read and heard through the years, Mike P. Is one of the smartest minds in the NFL. Now last year because of age and injuries he had little to work with and the defense looked soft and lost as expected.
This year the defense came out with talent and was really dominating and after a few games began to look lost out of positions and again soft. This got me thinking that maybe the defense was basic at the start of the season to help the new guys catch up but now Mike has installed so many variations that the defense is confused and the players are missing calls and playing with hesitation. Maybe if they dumb it down to basics they could play faster and more aggressive?

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Here is my take on the defense guys:
From what I’ve seen read and heard through the years, Mike P. Is one of the smartest minds in the NFL. Now last year because of age and injuries he had little to work with and the defense looked soft and lost as expected.
This year the defense came out with talent and was really dominating and after a few games began to look lost out of positions and again soft. This got me thinking that maybe the defense was basic at the start of the season to help the new guys catch up but now Mike has installed so many variations that the defense is confused and the players are missing calls and playing with hesitation. Maybe if they dumb it down to basics they could play faster and more aggressive?

Or, there's more tape for teams to review and they see the MASSIVE hole we have up the middle each game. I think that's personnel related, and we'll need to spend significant resources (draft capital or cap) to rectify.

 

[gbgary]

Our Defensive Scheme and Execution is what is hurting GB

same goes for the O. both are highly inconsistent, can't be counted on, and yet they manage to win 3 out of every 4. confidence is the last thing this team exudes. that said, between the two, i'd have to say the O was the bigger culprit if you're issuing blame for underwhelming performance. the D has done more to hold up it's end of the bargain. it's been hung out to dry by the O multiple times.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Here is my take on the defense guys:
From what I’ve seen read and heard through the years, Mike P. Is one of the smartest minds in the NFL. Now last year because of age and injuries he had little to work with and the defense looked soft and lost as expected.
This year the defense came out with talent and was really dominating and after a few games began to look lost out of positions and again soft. This got me thinking that maybe the defense was basic at the start of the season to help the new guys catch up but now Mike has installed so many variations that the defense is confused and the players are missing calls and playing with hesitation. Maybe if they dumb it down to basics they could play faster and more aggressive?

If that would be the issue and Pettine is as smart as you claim he would have gone back to playing basic defense several weeks ago.

Or, there's more tape for teams to review and they see the MASSIVE hole we have up the middle each game. I think that's personnel related, and we'll need to spend significant resources (draft capital or cap) to rectify.

The Packers need to add talent at inside linebacker but should spend most of their resources on offense next offseason.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

If that would be the issue and Pettine is as smart as you claim he would have gone back to playing basic defense several weeks ago.



The Packers need to add talent at inside linebacker but should spend most of their resources on offense next offseason.

I don't disagree, I think it's a matter of what or who is available. Sounds like the free agent wrs aren't looking that great so drafting wrs early (unless Lazard lights the world on fire these last few games) would seem to be a good idea. That said, if we don't address the middle linebacker position we'll still have a defense that good teams will exploit.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don't disagree, I think it's a matter of what or who is available. Sounds like the free agent wrs aren't looking that great so drafting wrs early (unless Lazard lights the world on fire these last few games) would seem to be a good idea. That said, if we don't address the middle linebacker position we'll still have a defense that good teams will exploit.

The draft is definitely the way to go upgrading the receiver position next offseason. It might be smart to add an inside linebacker via free agency but Gutekunst shouldn't break the bank to sign one.

 

[gbgary]

The draft is definitely the way to go upgrading the receiver position next offseason. It might be smart to add an inside linebacker via free agency but Gutekunst shouldn't break the bank to sign one.

it is if you're looking for long-term/cheap but in win-now mode it isn't. they'll be drafting in the back half of the first round next draft. no one wants to think about it but i think they'll go defense again. the middle needs immediate attention.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

it is if you're looking for long-term/cheap but in win-now mode it isn't. they'll be drafting in the back half of the first round next draft. no one wants to think about it but i think they'll go defense again. the middle needs immediate attention.

I think it depends on who falls. If there's a legit linebacker prospect there then sure, that seems relatively doubtful. The two sure thing linebackers were taken before pick 12 this year. Keep in mind that RT prospects tend to fall so that might be the better option there - a good prospect to play RT.

Look at the linebackers we've taken near the end of the first... Barnett and Perry. Plugs who have occupied roster spots for years without really providing a lot of upside. Really just sticking around because of their draft price.

Free agency may be the way to go to help solidify the middle. That could mean some restructuring of contracts or releasing veterans.