1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!

    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers. You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
    Dismiss Notice

OT...basketball

Discussion in 'Green Bay Packers Fan Forum' started by gopkrs, Aug 2, 2020.

  1. rmontro

    rmontro Cheesehead

    Messages:
    2,678
    Likes Received:
    198
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Packer Fan Since:
    1960
    For the record, I don't like all the political speech by award winners either. Just because people think you're a good actor doesn't mean we want to hear all about your political leanings or pet causes. Names of political organizations on the basketball court is like if the Avengers wore "Vote for ____" on their costumes. Do we really want to see that? I don't.
     
  2. gopkrs

    gopkrs Cheesehead

    Messages:
    2,005
    Likes Received:
    100
    Joined:
    May 12, 2014
    Packer Fan Since:
    1959
    Gotta agree. And at least they believe what they say. Not like lying politicians. People definitely need to be better consumers of what facts they take in as true. And we Americans are not doing a good job of it. imho baaaaaaah
     
  3. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

    Messages:
    3,920
    Likes Received:
    187
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Packer Fan Since:
    1992
    Nobody paid attention to all the work Kap did until he asked an Army Ranger how best to protest on the sidelines. It would be nice if ppl paid attention to what athletes did away from the field but that's not the reality.
     
  4. rmontro

    rmontro Cheesehead

    Messages:
    2,678
    Likes Received:
    198
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Packer Fan Since:
    1960
    I disagree that people don't pay attention to what athletes do away from the field. Are you trying to suggest no one heard of Black Lives Matter or police brutality before Colin Kaepernick sat for the national anthem? Because that is not my recollection at all.

    I've always considered Kaepernick's anthem antics a distasteful distraction from the police brutality issue. Over the years it's become clear that his real issue is that he hates the country and supports communism - maybe he believes he is justified in doing so, but that seems pretty clear.

    I would say what happened to George Floyd did more to further discussion on police brutality than anything else, but that doesn't make it a good thing.
     
  5. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

    Messages:
    11,444
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2014
    Packer Fan Since:
    1980
    I'd say Kaep kneeling brought more attention to Kaep . Sure everybody's heard about it, how could you not. I'm still not sure what he's doing about it though. I know he gave like 5 million dollars, very respectable. Putting his money where his mouth was, but as for the "work" he's doing? I'm not sure what he's doing about anything. I do know he go some nice sponsorships after "standing up".

    I'm more aware of Warrick Dunn and that was 20 years ago. I know Drew Brees gives a lot of money, pretty equal to Kaep and he never made the game his political stage. Asomugha and his founding of the Asomugha Foundation and partnership with United Way is on my radar. Heck JJ Watt uses social media like a 13 year old girl to draw attention to himself and social causes. You can't avoid it, even if you want to. Drives me nuts, but good for him. A great example of using your fame to drive your causes without taking away from the game.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. GreenNGold_81

    GreenNGold_81 Cheesehead

    Messages:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    52
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2015
    Packer Fan Since:
    1990
    Here come the boycotts. Players are pissed re: the Jacob Blake shooting. I wonder if this will affect the NFL.
     
  7. rmontro

    rmontro Cheesehead

    Messages:
    2,678
    Likes Received:
    198
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Packer Fan Since:
    1960
    They've postponed all the playoffs for the moment. Seriously, at this point they can close the NBA for good, I don't even care anymore. In fact, they can close the NFL too, and declare the Packers the winners, 13 championships. Done.

    They don't even wait until we have all the information available with the Blake case. I don't think people even care what the details are, or even about Blake, they just want to riot and burn.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. GreenNGold_81

    GreenNGold_81 Cheesehead

    Messages:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    52
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2015
    Packer Fan Since:
    1990
    Pretty clear when it's on tape and bystanders have been interviewed. Also, pretty disappointing that a 17 year old white male was allowed to return home after murdering two people protesting a black male being shot multiple times in the back. NBA players are rightfully pissed. 'Merica is screwed.
     
  9. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

    Messages:
    11,444
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2014
    Packer Fan Since:
    1980
    Did you watch stuff or just read interpretations of stuff?
     
  10. GreenNGold_81

    GreenNGold_81 Cheesehead

    Messages:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    52
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2015
    Packer Fan Since:
    1990
    Been all over reddit bro. Watched it all, read it all.
     
  11. rmontro

    rmontro Cheesehead

    Messages:
    2,678
    Likes Received:
    198
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Packer Fan Since:
    1960
    So you are declaring it an unjustified shooting? No need for it to go to the courts, I guess. We still don't know if there was a gun in the car. Does it make a difference? Reports were he had a knife. He scuffled with the police. He had a record of violence, sexual assault, and dangerous use of a firearm. There was a warrant for his arrest. This was not some innocent poor victim walking down the street minding his own business and the cops decided to murder him. I don't know why these protesters are always so quick to defend these criminals, but so quick to condemn working police officers who are productive members of society. Let the process play out. Certainly rampaging through Kenosha burning down people's businesses is not the answer.

    The protesters never want police to use deadly force, but they pelt cops with bricks. You don't think a brick can be a deadly weapon? The cops have used tremendous restraint dealing with these rioters. You're right about one thing, the country is screwed.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  12. GreenNGold_81

    GreenNGold_81 Cheesehead

    Messages:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    52
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2015
    Packer Fan Since:
    1990
    I think de-escalation failed which led to an unjustified shooting. I think when you have strength in numbers you can effectively bring someone down without shooting them. Yes, they tried a taser and it failed. You know what, try again. He's not a big man. Block his means of escape, if someone is essentially trying to flee (which I would assume if someone is walking away and opening their car door) why give him access to his car? Block it. These police officers took the easy route and drew their guns. That's the problem. Walking behind a man with your gun drawn waiting and not acting was the problem. Take his legs out, cuff him, etc. It took less than three minutes from the time of arrival before shots were fired. How hard did they try to speak to him to de-escalate things? Not hard enough it seems. Such a disgusting three minutes. Police re-training is coming.
     
  13. rmontro

    rmontro Cheesehead

    Messages:
    2,678
    Likes Received:
    198
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Packer Fan Since:
    1960
    I just want to say that these are split second life and death decisions, and in real life situations things often do not go the way they are supposed to. But if more and better de-escalation training will save more lives, I am all for it. That is not what the protesters want, however, they want defunding, and a lot of them simply want the country to turn to full socialism or communism. More training is going to cost more money, not less.

    Also, I keep hearing mention of polls saying that black people want more or equal police presence in their neighborhoods, not less. So what the heck are we doing? Why are we burning down the country to demand fewer police?

    So when some questionable police shooting happens in January (and make no mistake, there will be more), are NFL teams going to sit out playoff games? This whole thing seems to be escalating, and that is not good news. I can only hope things settle down after the election, but that may just be the beginning of the real blaze.
     
  14. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

    Messages:
    11,444
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2014
    Packer Fan Since:
    1980
    what's reddit?
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  15. GreenNGold_81

    GreenNGold_81 Cheesehead

    Messages:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    52
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2015
    Packer Fan Since:
    1990
    In this case, it was about 10 seconds of a man plodding towards his car, opening the door and getting shot. Plenty of things could have been done in that situation to avoid shooting him IMO.

    I won't comment on the allocation of funds or officer distribution or the costs associated with implementing true change (I'll admit my ignorance) but I will say that we also must factor in the new costs that this shooting will create. Medical bills will need to be paid, rehabilitation (if he survives), funeral costs (if he dies), lawyer fees, disability payments, etc. If I was his lawyer, I would be asking for millions. My guess is when it's all said and done, those costs would cover re-training for more than the three police officers involved.
     
  16. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

    Messages:
    3,920
    Likes Received:
    187
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Packer Fan Since:
    1992
    Especially when protesters are demonized to the point that it encourages armed militias who drive across state lines and murder two peaceful protesters (also not helpful that the police let the murderer just walk by while others yelled that he just shoot three people).
     
  17. GreenNGold_81

    GreenNGold_81 Cheesehead

    Messages:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    52
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2015
    Packer Fan Since:
    1990
    Lakers and Clippers boycotting the rest of the season now. Whoa.
     
  18. rmontro

    rmontro Cheesehead

    Messages:
    2,678
    Likes Received:
    198
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Packer Fan Since:
    1960
    Wow, that's heavy. I guess they can put this NBA season into the "shouldn't have bothered" category. I wonder if the NFL will draw any conclusions from it?
     
  19. rmontro

    rmontro Cheesehead

    Messages:
    2,678
    Likes Received:
    198
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Packer Fan Since:
    1960
    Reading further, I see the Lakers and Clippers voted to boycott the rest of the season, but the other teams voted to continue the playoffs. So I'm not sure if the Lakers and Clippers are out, or if they are abiding by the majority vote and will stay. Just what I always wanted, national policy dictated by LeBron James.

    The players say the owners need to do more for social justice issues. Yeah, that will help the league. There are bad things happening in the world, so let's just not play. Fine with me, go get regular jobs, see how you like it. Maybe they'll let you write Black Lives Matter on the floor at Wal-Mart.

    I would love to put all these athletes on the police force, give them full training of course, and see how they go about conducting error-free police work for the next 20 years. It might be harder than they think.
     
  20. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

    Messages:
    3,920
    Likes Received:
    187
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Packer Fan Since:
    1992
    Not sure that argument gonna hold much water for people that feel oppressed and victimized. Also, they have a lot of power, I'm glad they've decided to use it. Of course nobody is asking for error free policing, just better training and accountability. Easier to disregard complaints though if you pretend the complaints are ridiculous.
     
  21. rmontro

    rmontro Cheesehead

    Messages:
    2,678
    Likes Received:
    198
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Packer Fan Since:
    1960
    I'm sure those wealthy basketball players are so oppressed by our racist country. I wonder if you would enjoy the politics in basketball so much if they decided to paint MAGA on the court. Then you might agree with me that politics should be kept out of pro sports. Yeah, it's great that they're using their power to promote BLM, because it's not being blasted at us from every other direction in our lives.

    I'm not pretending anything. Statistically, black people are not killed by police at an unusual rate. They make up 13% of the population, but they commit about half of all violent crime. Partly because they tend to live in high crime areas. The number of blacks killed fall in between those two numbers. I've seen studies that say police are actually less likely to shoot a minority, and this sort of flap is one reason why. However, whenever there is one of these cases, the media turns it into a 24 hour circus. They do this because the sensationalism is great for ratings, and also because it is to their benefit (and the party whose agenda they support) to make sure that certain people feel that they are victims and oppressed.

    You know as well as I do that if this was a white person who was shot, there would be no national news coverage, and no one would care outside of his family. White people would look at the guy and say "Why didn't that idiot just cooperate and not resist"? But since it's a black person they want to assign a racial motive to it, which I see no evidence of whatsoever. If, and I stress if, this was an unjustified shooting, it looked more like a panic shooting than anything. If that's the case, that's bad, but people certainly shouldn't be burning down cities because of it.

    I've already said if police reform and better training can save lives, I'm all for it. I don't agree with defunding the police, and I certainly don't agree with the way hard working police officers have been demonized by the protesters and the media, and in many cases physically assaulted. But the people burning down buildings are the enemies of America, and I bet most of them couldn't care less about black lives.
     
  22. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

    Messages:
    11,444
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2014
    Packer Fan Since:
    1980
    I think people need to ask themselves, "what do they want the police to do" Seriously. i've said for a long time, many tactics have gone from deescalation to quickly gain compliance and control on many PD's. But the other side of that coin is, why did they change? society has certainly played its part.

    I'm sorry, I am mad. I read that story Sunday morning while sitting at our friends house in IL where we were visiting for the weekend and I was pissed. I'm like, find another way besides shooting people. It was portrayed this man was just walking down the street, was a samaritan and broke up a fight and then was walking away, didn't stop and cops shot him in the back. I was pretty mad.

    Then I got home later, started doing some digging and then I was really pissed at once again how inept, complicit and irresponsible our media was again. and then to see what the governor had to say? we don't have any details, but it wouldn't be the first time a black man was mercilessly murdered in our state by law enforcement? It's like he lit the match himself.

    a guy with a felony warrant isn't going to check on his kids, i'm sorry, he was trying to escape. and domestics are probably one of the most dangerous situations a cop gets called to. They go from zero to 3000 MPH in the blink of an eye. Kids are taken, guns are gotten, people are knifed, emotions are at an all time high and bad things generally happen.

    Sure, deescalate, but what if it doesn't work. So you say block the car, ok, wrestling match ensues and he gets a gun, then what? the worst thing you can do is get within a few feet of a desperate man, bad things happen. Let him in the car? what if those aren't his kids? let him go blow off steam? what if he comes back later? men never come back and murder the other half of their domestic do they? and they certainly never reach in a car and come out with a gun?

    so what do we expect from our police? I'm not going to argue there aren't other ways this could have ended, there are obviously are one hundred more favorable outcomes. many which would depend on the criminal having some level of cooperation. Others that would require the police to put themselves in much more danger than they already were. Many of your "options" can still end very badly for just as many or more people. But I think it's also healthy to talk about. But then it's only productive to talk about it when you can talk about it all. and the other side of that conversation is that man played a very big role in what happened to himself. but it's never a part of the conversation and if you're a white male and bring it, well you're just racist and can't know. it's an easy way to discount what you don't want to deal with.

    But in the end, are police just to let an uncooperative felony suspect go if they won't calm down or they won't cooperate? I say no, but that's me.

    if not, if the reports are true he had a felony warrant and prior history do you believe there may have been a bit of desperation in that man? Do you believe he was in a calm and thinking state or seeing he was not breaking up some random fight but was likely a cause and involved directly with the fight and a domestic one on top of that, or was he in a highly emotional and agitated state?

    I'm sorry, I don't expect people to let anybody with that warrant walk away. and I don't expect them to assume that person ignoring everything and reaching into his car is completely safe and they just see what he's going to do next. what if those kids weren't really his, but his ex girlfriends or current but she was the one that called the cops? Crazed men never kill the kids of their exes do they?

    Again, i'm sorry this guy is paralyzed and i do wish policing didn't end as violently as it does many times. I also try and put myself in their shoes. I'm sorry, but a guy that has put himself in that position and in that mental state was not a "victim" by his actions. Get people asking questions, sure. Burn down a town and riot over it? actions from emotionally charged and careless minds if you ask me. If the story was actually the one the media and our Governor tried to portray, just a man breaking up a fight and walking away? wouldn't care if the entire city burned, but then that is not at all what happened.

    as for basketball, I wasn't even aware the bucks could close out the series yesterday until this came out, that's how much i'm paying attention.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  23. Pugger

    Pugger Cheesehead

    Messages:
    1,346
    Likes Received:
    72
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2008
    Location:
    E. De Pere for the summer!
    Packer Fan Since:
    1960
    Yes, police re-training has to happen. If they feel threatened there are other ways to stop a suspect other than shooting him in the back. But perhaps the public should learn that if a police officer tells you to stop/freeze and not resist these incidences wouldn't escalate to shooting either.
     
  24. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

    Messages:
    3,920
    Likes Received:
    187
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Packer Fan Since:
    1992
    Huh, guess you just think these players were born wealthy? That racists asks for bank statements before being racist?

    Maybe wealth cancels out empathy for some but luckily most ppl keep their empathy even when they paid.
     
  25. PikeBadger

    PikeBadger Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,102
    Likes Received:
    184
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    Packer Fan Since:
    1963
    Weak. Very weak.
     

Share This Page

-->