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OPINIONS: 12X Champions or 3X Super Bowl Champions

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by The Drew, Aug 30, 2010.

  1. The Drew

    The Drew #packergang

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    It gets on my nerves that alot of people "dont count" or "down grade" the fact that the Green Bay Packers are 12X Champions which include 3 Superbowl Championships...

    Especially talking with Cowboys (5 SBs), 49ers (5 SBs) and Steelers (6 SBs) fans... you always hear,"you cant count championships before the SuperBowl!"

    My question is why not? They're still championships of the NFL right? When they AFL and NFL merged they just changed the name of the Game. Thats it. The Steelers and Cowboys were in existance before the merger they just never won an NFL Championship... I bet if they did they would bump up their respective championship count...

    I want to hear others opinions on this matter. I know I'm not the first Packer fan to deal with this........PLEASE CHIME IN.....:happy0005:
     
  2. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    i agree with you. they count.
    they count as much as today's count.
    if not, then what is the magic #?
    32 teams?

    because most super bowls were played with 28 teams. do they not count since there were fewer teams?

    most of jim brown's great work was done before it went to a super bowl. same with johnny unitas, YA tittle, etc. do they not count?
     
  3. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    There's one thing about this.

    Why the pre-SB criteria? What changed? Both leagues merged? But wasn't there a time where there was only one league? So that time doesn't count?

    The game was different? But the game was very different 10 years ago also. You don't count that?

    There weren't many teams? So before the last expansion of the Texans, you shouldn't count it either?

    It's ridiculous. You count as long as pro football exists. The same way the Pro Football Hall of Fame acknowledges their players.
     
  4. Green_Bay_Packers

    Green_Bay_Packers Cheesehead

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    Gotta agree with PackerRS really the Superbowl and Championships are the same thing lol think about it
     
  5. TampaPacMan

    TampaPacMan Cheesehead

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    Unfortunately,this attitude that what transpired in the NFL prior to 1970 merger is irrelevant is prevalent among younger fans, and fans of teams that weren't sucessful prior to the merger.This is especially true of Steelers and 49ers fans. The Steelers have been in the league since the mid 30s,they were a member of the NFL Eastern conference for over thirty years, and they never won a single conference title let alone an NFL title! Yet all you hear from their fans is how great their winning tradtion is. For half of their exisistence they had no winning tradition! The same is true with regards to San Francisco, they didn't win their first division title until 1970! What happened before the merger matters, the only ones who want to forget that, are fans of teams who accomplished nothing in the pre super bowl era!
     
  6. Murgen

    Murgen MechaPackzilla

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    Semantics. NFL counts em. Nuff said.
     
  7. KilrB

    KilrB Cheesehead

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    I was pissed as hell when Roger Goodell told the Steelers that they were the Winningest Franchise in History. What a joke for a league that says they care about the history of the league. i have 3 Steelers fans in my FF League. I posted this to my league message board to throw cold water on thier circle jerk party. After they read this they never spoke of how great the Steelers were again.

    I dont remember where I got this or who the author is, but this is great!



     
  8. The Drew

    The Drew #packergang

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    ^ I love it!!!
     
  9. Raptorman

    Raptorman Vikings fan since 1966.

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    Well, since you asked. The Packers really have 14 Championships. First you have the 11 NFL Championships up until 1967. Then you have the 3 Super Bowls. Since the first four Super Bowls were played against another league, they really should be counted as separate championships. But it's to confusing for most people. And I know many will never count them that way. The NFL made the mistake that when they merged in 1970, they should have separated out those 4 games between the different leagues. There is a reason why those first 4 trophies say "AFL-NFL World Championship Game" on them. I think it takes away from what was accomplished by the teams involved. I know many won't agree with me but that's the way I see it.

    To those that want to disagree with with me on the first 4 Super Bowls, think of it this way. If the Badgers win the Rose Bowl does that make them champions of the Pac 10? No. Same thing with the first 4 Super Bowls, the Packers winning the first two did make make them champions of the AFL. Since they had to win the NFL championship to get to the Super Bowl in the first place.....Same with the two AFL teams, did the Jets and Chiefs wins make them NFL Champions? Nope. You can't be the Champion of a league you don't belong to.

    As to the winning teams, San Francisco has had one good decade, New England has had one good decade, yet many consider them "winning" franchise's based on winning several Super Bowls.
     
  10. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Of course it counts. In fact its one of the few things Bears, Packers, and Lions fans agree on. Vikings would have to win something to contribute.
     
  11. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Yeah, we've been through this before.

    In the semantics, you're absolutely right.

    But we don't count 12 NFL titles. We count 12 championships. It was about the formula for winning it all.
    You're right, you could add up those 4 games. But the way to win it all in those years before the merger was to win the SB, not the NFL or the AFL.

    In some of our titles, it was the standings, who got more wins. In some it was the NFL championship game. And in the last 3, it was to win the SB...
     
  12. Raptorman

    Raptorman Vikings fan since 1966.

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    But here's the thing, do you count the 66-67 NFL championships as championships or do you count the first two Super Bowls as championships? Which in reality they were not "NFL championships" at the time. I remember Lombardi talking about the "Other" game they had to play against that "other" league. To bad we didn't have YouTube back then to save some of those stories from TV. I wonder if the TV stations kept that stuff.

    Personally I don't care how the Packers or the fans count them. You know were I stand on the issue, I prefer to be historically accurate. But even amongst Vikings fans I'm in the minority on the issue. It does annoy me that many fans think that New England and San Francisco have great "winning" traditions based on one decade worth of winning. It's would be like if Detroit won 3 Super Bowl in the next 8 years, all of a sudden they would have a "winning" tradition.
     
  13. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Nice article, but since when did New England win 4 Super Bowls?
     
  14. Raptorman

    Raptorman Vikings fan since 1966.

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    Three things.
    1) By winning percentage, the Cowboys are at the top. The Packers come in a 4th and the Steelers at 17.
    2) The two leagues merged in 1970 not 1967.
    3) The Packers have only won 9 chamionship games. The other three were based on record. The Steelers are not as far behind as you think.
     
  15. The Drew

    The Drew #packergang

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    Not talking about Championship games... more of how many times they were crowned as Champions....
     
  16. Packy

    Packy Cheesehead

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    Seriously, THAT is a serious disrespect to our ancestors. Did they not play football then? Since TV was the major driving force in the NFL, the football they played must have been from another planet... right?

    And since WW2 happened before the Berlin wall came down, it doesn't count does it? And since the civil war happened before any of us were born, slavery doesn't matter... Right? And we don't have to recognize U.S.A as an independent country do we?
     
  17. Croak

    Croak Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The Pro Football Hall of Fame, The Official National Football League Statistics and the Guinness Book of Records all list the Green Bay Packers as the team with the most championships at 12.
     
  18. KilrB

    KilrB Cheesehead

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    Fixed it in my original post. Thanks for pointing out the typo!


    On that same note that is another thing that the Packers are One Big Up on the others in that they are the only team to ever win 3 Championships in a row and to win 5 in 7 years!
     
  19. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    How many World Series have the Yankees won?? 27.

    They've only won 7 World Series since 1964--winning 20 Titles from 1921 thru 1964. Major League Baseball started divisional playoffs in 1969, and the Yanks didn't win their 21st Championship until 1976. So would that make it their first Championship of 7?

    Of course not. They've won 27, which the team proudly pronounces the most successful pro sports record in America, and rightly so. To ignore NFL history is simply dishonest. Like many of today's writers who claim the record for the Stealers--with the Stealers agreeing. Even the NFL buys into the Super Bowl as the beginning of Championships. Sickening.
     
  20. The Drew

    The Drew #packergang

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    There it is!!!! I like that!!! :happy0005:
     
  21. Raptorman

    Raptorman Vikings fan since 1966.

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    Here's a sobering though for you! They also list the Vikings as having one. Now doesn't that just suck?:happy0005:
     
  22. Croak

    Croak Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The HOF lists them as having an NFL championship, no mention of an overall championship. The Guinness book I have doesn't list them as a team with a championship.

    Which high school is the Vikings anyway? :viksux:
     
  23. don_frosto

    don_frosto Cheesehead

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    Thanks for starting this thread Drew. To this day, I still have friends (Cowgirls and others not even worth mentioning) say that the other 9 don't count. I'm always saying "WHY THE F NOT!?" B/c it doesn't have the Super Bowl name attached to it??

    Hmm, maybe I'll put this as my sig :D ..With your permission of course xD
     
  24. Croak

    Croak Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Go for it.
     
  25. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    Why would the commissioner of the league anoint the Stealers as the greatest? Do you excuse it because he's only known the post-merger league?? He dishonors the league that he is supposed to protect at all costs. Pathetic.
     

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