Opening Sunday

[porky88]

Lynch has 15 pounds on Irons and their 40's are similar. Kind of hard to knock Lynch on that one. Irons was 198 at the senior bowl which is very disappointing. I think he was 203 at the combine. Lynch was 218 at his pro day.

Lynch has better agility and acceleration and is just more elusive. Lynch has shown breakaway speed in games. Irons isn‘t a big play guy in my opinion.

 

[OregonPackFan]

There is no indication Kenny Irons wouldn't be able to put on 10 pounds and still maintain his speed. I don't think his size will be an issue, he will naturally bulk up in the pros due to harder training.

I don't understand why you think Lynch accelerates faster than Irons.

Lynch:

40 Yrd Dash: 4.46
20 Yrd Dash: 2.60
10 Yrd Dash: 1.53
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.58
3-Cone Drill: 7.09

Irons:

40 Yrd Dash: 4.45
20 Yrd Dash: 2.56
10 Yrd Dash: 1.50
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.17
3-Cone Drill: 7.00

Based on the numbers, Irons not only accelerates faster than Lynch, but he also has a slightly better top speed.

Lynch is faster than he is quick, while Irons is quicker than he is fast, but still faster than Lynch.

I think Irons would fit better to our scheme than Lynch. Lynch has always split carries as well, not the workhorse you want.

 

[CaliforniaCheez]

Let's ponder this:

Week:

1) Reid is a better coach and the Packers have not done well at home recently.

2) The Giants will be coming a national television opening against division rival Dallas. They may let down. (+)

3) San Diego opens against Chicago and then flys to New England before flying to the Packers for the second road game in a row. (+)

4) The vikings return home for their biggest game of the year after being embarassed at Arrowhead. Two road games prior for the queens. (-)

5) The Bears come to Lambeau for a Sunday night game after a game in Detroit. They play Cowboys prior to Lions.

6) The Redskins have a bye week and the Lions before this Lambeau game.

8) MNF at Safeco Field. The Packers are coming off a bye week while the Bronceos were at home against the Steelers the week prior. (+)

9) The Chiefs have a bye week and watch the Packers on MNF the week prior. 2nd consecutive road game for the Pack and short week for the Pack. Double minus (- -).

10) The Packers regroup at home for the queens who are coming off a game against San Diego and Philly the week before that. (+)

11) The Packers remain at home against the Panthers who are coming of a divisional game against Atlanta.

12) Short week traveling for Thanksgiving. Early Eastern time zone game. (-)

13) Thursday NFL network game against Dallas. The cowpies have the short week but don't travel as they were at home against the Jets the prior Sunday. Second consecutive road game on turf.

14) Oakland travels to Green Bay after two divisional games(@KC, Den) they are prime for a let down as they know by know the playoffs are out of reach. (+)

15) The Rams are at home after travelling to Cincinnati. Turf game.

16) The Bears after 2 games on the road against the Redskins and queens return home for this game.

17) Detroit goes outside in the cold and give want they can for their final game of the season. (+) The Packers are playing for a playoff spot.


So the Packers are catching San Diego at a good time and Kansas City at a bad time. Many other factors like injuries and player development come into play but these are just a few initial impressions.

 

[porky88]

There is no indication Kenny Irons wouldn't be able to put on 10 pounds and still maintain his speed. I don't think his size will be an issue, he will naturally bulk up in the pros due to harder training.

I don't understand why you think Lynch accelerates faster than Irons.

Lynch:

40 Yrd Dash: 4.46
20 Yrd Dash: 2.60
10 Yrd Dash: 1.53
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.58
3-Cone Drill: 7.09

Irons:

40 Yrd Dash: 4.45
20 Yrd Dash: 2.56
10 Yrd Dash: 1.50
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.17
3-Cone Drill: 7.00

Based on the numbers, Irons not only accelerates faster than Lynch, but he also has a slightly better top speed.

Lynch is faster than he is quick, while Irons is quicker than he is fast, but still faster than Lynch.

I think Irons would fit better to our scheme than Lynch. Lynch has always split carries as well, not the workhorse you want.

Link?

Put on the film. Lynch gets off the ball faster. He hits the hole faster. He runs harder. He plays stronger. He shows better vision and he has better intangibles. There is a reason why he's rated higher. He's just a better player. Lynch plays faster than Irons. That’s’ what scouts mean by he doesn’t have great time speed. Lynch will likely adjust to the NFL better than Irons. Comparing the two is apples and oranges.

Lynch had 220 carries last year. He had about 200 in 10 games in 05. He's proven he can carry "the load". That’s a pretty good amount for college football. Carnell Williams and Ronnie Brown both split time as well and both are starters. Williams was the 05 rookie of the year.

You can imply that there is no reason why Irons wouldn’t be able to keep up his speed at 215. Maybe but likely not. His playing weight has always been around 205 which is significant amount less than Marshawn Lynch.

Lynch is actually best suited for a zone type of blocking scheme. Every scout has said as much. He's a one cut runner. He reads the blocking and hits the hole fast. Irons does the same thing as well but Lynch is just better and offers more upside. By no means am I putting him in the Pro Bowl but he is a better prospect than Kenny Irons.

 

[Pack93z]

Also, you call Kenny Irons slow, in fact he is faster than Marshawn Lynch.

Kenny Irons 4.45
Marshawn Lynch 4.46

I wouldn't say 4.45 speed is slow.

Oregon~

Just admit it, anyone comming from Cal you don't like... I think it is a conference foe thing. Come to think of it, anyone from the Pac 10 seems to get knocked by you. :rotflmao:

 

[pyledriver80]

There is no indication Kenny Irons wouldn't be able to put on 10 pounds and still maintain his speed. I don't think his size will be an issue, he will naturally bulk up in the pros due to harder training.

I don't understand why you think Lynch accelerates faster than Irons.

Lynch:

40 Yrd Dash: 4.46
20 Yrd Dash: 2.60
10 Yrd Dash: 1.53
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.58
3-Cone Drill: 7.09

Irons:

40 Yrd Dash: 4.45
20 Yrd Dash: 2.56
10 Yrd Dash: 1.50
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.17
3-Cone Drill: 7.00

Based on the numbers, Irons not only accelerates faster than Lynch, but he also has a slightly better top speed.

Lynch is faster than he is quick, while Irons is quicker than he is fast, but still faster than Lynch.

I think Irons would fit better to our scheme than Lynch. Lynch has always split carries as well, not the workhorse you want.

Link?

Put on the film. Lynch gets off the ball faster. He hits the hole faster. He runs harder. He plays stronger. He shows better vision and he has better intangibles. There is a reason why he's rated higher. He's just a better player. Lynch plays faster than Irons. That’s’ what scouts mean by he doesn’t have great time speed. Lynch will likely adjust to the NFL better than Irons. Comparing the two is apples and oranges.

Lynch had 220 carries last year. He had about 200 in 10 games in 05. He's proven he can carry "the load". That’s a pretty good amount for college football. Carnell Williams and Ronnie Brown both split time as well and both are starters. Williams was the 05 rookie of the year.

You can imply that there is no reason why Irons wouldn’t be able to keep up his speed at 215. Maybe but likely not. His playing weight has always been around 205 which is significant amount less than Marshawn Lynch.

Lynch is actually best suited for a zone type of blocking scheme. Every scout has said as much. He's a one cut runner. He reads the blocking and hits the hole fast. Irons does the same thing as well but Lynch is just better and offers more upside. By no means am I putting him in the Pro Bowl but he is a better prospect than Kenny Irons.

I actually agree with Oregon here. I like Irons at the position we can get him over where we would have to take Lynch. Irons is faster than Lynch.

I think Irons is a much better fit. They both hit the hole similarly but Lynch has a terrible habit of trying to bust everything outside instead of taking the 3-4 yards. That is not a great thing in the ZBS scheme. He also runs upright and dances to much. His pass protection is awful abd he has had character issues.

I see Irons as a better fit, with better speed.

 

[HatestheEagles084]

It is early to predict things, but every team has questions to them... we certainly do.

It is too early to predict things but I have one day circled on my calendar...oh how I cannot wait for the Eagles to finally make the trip to Lambeau...and potentially Kelly Holcomb at the helm...this is a great chance for this young packer team to get some notariety instantly against (gulp) one of the best teams in the NFC since like 2000

 

[OregonPackFan]

Link?

Put on the film. Lynch gets off the ball faster. He hits the hole faster. He runs harder. He plays stronger. He shows better vision and he has better intangibles. There is a reason why he's rated higher. He's just a better player. Lynch plays faster than Irons. That’s’ what scouts mean by he doesn’t have great time speed. Lynch will likely adjust to the NFL better than Irons. Comparing the two is apples and oranges.

Timed speed is the 40-time, playing speed is the speed you perceive in games and on tape. Perceptions of playing speed are often wrong because different running styles can often make one guy look like he runs faster than another even though they run at the exact same speed.

For instance, on tape I got a feeling that Mike Walker, WR Central Florida was a 4.5 - 4.6 receiver, however his real speed was much faster than the perceived speed, he turned in a 4.35 40-time at the combine. This perception was a result of his running style.

There are indeed a difference between playing speed and timed speed, but a player with a 4.35 40-time doesn't have 4.5 - 4.6 playing speed.

The 40-time is an important indicator to a player's real speed.

Steve Smith out of USC was also perceived to be a lot slower than he really is, untill he ran at the combine.

Scouts didn't think Kenny Irons had great timed speed BEFORE he ran, however this has changed as he turned out to be a lot faster than most expected.

 

[OregonPackFan]

Lynch has 15 pounds on Irons and their 40's are similar. Kind of hard to knock Lynch on that one. Irons was 198 at the senior bowl which is very disappointing. I think he was 203 at the combine. Lynch was 218 at his pro day.

Lynch has better agility and acceleration and is just more elusive. Lynch has shown breakaway speed in games. Irons isn‘t a big play guy in my opinion.

How can you say Lynch is more elusive? Irons is the prototype elusive running back while Lynch isn't a very elusive back at all compared to Irons.

I've often seen Lynch searching contact rather than evade it, not what you would call elusive.

 

[porky88]

Link?

Put on the film. Lynch gets off the ball faster. He hits the hole faster. He runs harder. He plays stronger. He shows better vision and he has better intangibles. There is a reason why he's rated higher. He's just a better player. Lynch plays faster than Irons. That’s’ what scouts mean by he doesn’t have great time speed. Lynch will likely adjust to the NFL better than Irons. Comparing the two is apples and oranges.

Timed speed is the 40-time, playing speed is the speed you perceive in games and on tape. Perceptions of playing speed are often wrong because different running styles can often make one guy look like he runs faster than another even though they run at the exact same speed.

For instance, on tape I got a feeling that Mike Walker, WR Central Florida was a 4.5 - 4.6 receiver, however his real speed was much faster than the perceived speed, he turned in a 4.35 40-time at the combine. This perception was a result of his running style.

There are indeed a difference between playing speed and timed speed, but a player with a 4.35 40-time doesn't have 4.5 - 4.6 playing speed.

The 40-time is an important indicator to a player's real speed.

Steve Smith out of USC was also perceived to be a lot slower than he really is, untill he ran at the combine.

Scouts didn't think Kenny Irons had great timed speed BEFORE he ran, however this has changed as he turned out to be a lot faster than most expected.

Lynch’s 40 is pretty solid for his size but he's much faster in the game like situation when he is on the field. It may not be that he literally gets faster but because of his muscle tone the pads just don’t slow him down. Another guy who fits that is Jerry Rice. His 40 was awful but when you watch him play he sure doesn't seem slow. How about Donald Driver? Same thing right there. I’m a big believer of the 40 for running backs, receivers, and defensive backs but evaluating what they do in actual games is far more important. Lynch is more of the total package. He’s a better prospect. The only thing that will hold him back is his character questions and back concerns. For that reason I could see him falling out of the top 20 and maybe into early round 2.

Irons has his durability questions as well but he doesn’t have any baggage that I know of. He’s my 5th rated back behind Peterson, Lynch, Pittman, and Bush. I think he’s a late 2nd to early 3rd round pick. He does fit the scheme but so does Marshawn Lynch and Lynch is the better prospect.

 

[OregonPackFan]

I was just pointing out some confusion around the term "timed speed".

Lynch might be a better back physically right now. However his lacking abillity to stay with the tackle and the scheme scares me, he dances outside way too often. He doesn't utilize the system, he doesn't use the tackles and tries to turn the corner instead of following his blockers.

Irons stays with the tackles, run through the holes that open up, he is very hard to catch, is very patient and has excellent vision and instincts. He utilizes the scheme in a way Lynch never has been able to do. And as I've pointed out in a different post, I expect Irons to naturally bulk up in the pros and with that additional bulk most of his injuries will disappear.

I also pointed out that Irons actually is faster than Lynch because you used Irons' speed against him, saying he was slow and then praising Lynch for his speed.

Lynch is faster than he is quick, that is not ideal for the ZBS because he doesn't hit the hole as fast as you would like.

Irons is quicker than he is fast and perfect for the ZBS, he is also faster than Lynch all in all.

Also Irons' playing speed is just as fast as Lynch's, if not faster.

The competition between these two backs would have been very close if it hadn't been for the injuries Irons sustained during his last season at Auburn.

I believe Irons is the back that gives the most value for Green Bay, Lynch is hyped up and overvalued. A player that is just an ordinary back and not special at all isn't worth a top 20 pick.

I think Irons will be the better back in the pros, if he goes to the right team.

 

[porky88]

You expect him to but you don’t know for sure. It’s speculation.

We differ to much on the two so we'll see. Considering that Auburn doesn‘t run the zone blocking scheme and neither does Cal neither of us has legit film on how well they would utilize the scheme. I think Lynch is more like Laurence Maroney from last year who ran at Minnesota. Minnesota actually runs zone blocking. Lynch doesn't dance that much. Not as much as your making out. In fact he‘s far from doing any Barry Sanders type of dancing. He doesn't run away from his blockers either. He cutbacks into the open field. Ironically that's what the zone blocking scheme is all about. You fine the hole and you hit no matter where it is. Personally with the proper coaching you can take most backs and put them in the zone blocking scheme. Warrick Dunn and Mike Anderson are different backs and they have had great success in it. Clinton Portis as well. So with the right coaching both would be able to work.

 

[Pack93z]

You expect him to but you don’t know for sure. It’s speculation.

We differ to much on the two so we'll see. Considering that Auburn doesn‘t run the zone blocking scheme and neither does Cal neither of us has legit film on how well they would utilize the scheme. I think Lynch is more like Laurence Maroney from last year who ran at Minnesota. Minnesota actually runs zone blocking. Lynch doesn't dance that much. Not as much as your making out. In fact he‘s far from doing any Barry Sanders type of dancing. He doesn't run away from his blockers either. He cutbacks into the open field. Ironically that's what the zone blocking scheme is all about. You fine the hole and you hit no matter where it is. Personally with the proper coaching you can take most backs and put them in the zone blocking scheme. Warrick Dunn and Mike Anderson are different backs and they have had great success in it. Clinton Portis as well. So with the right coaching both would be able to work.

I agree with you here totally, Lynch is very explosive through the hole and doesn't dance around much at all... it is usually one cut and into the secondary. My opinion of Irons is that he will be a good change of pace back, but will never have the bulk to carry the rock as a featured back. He couldn't do it in the SEC. If I was going to knock Lynch on the field, it is for his durablilty. But then we need to knock Peterson as well, he missed more time than both of these backs with his vertical running style.

 

[OregonPackFan]

Irons carried the bulk for Auburn, he was their feature back.

and Porky, your posts are as much speculation as my posts are.

 

[OregonPackFan]

And I would like to point out that I wouldn't be disappointed with Lynch as a Packer, I'm sure he can be a very good back, however I don't think he gives enough value at #16 to pick him there, and as he obviously isn't going to drop much further than that, I would rather look elsewhere for a back in this draft and that is when Irons present him as a perfect pick.

 

[porky88]

Irons carried the bulk for Auburn, he was their feature back.

and Porky, your posts are as much speculation as my posts are.

I'm not stating one will work and one won't and I'm not saying whether or not a guy can be as good if not better playing at a weight he is not used too. I'm saying both will could work in the zone blocking. I'm simply saying Lynch is a better prospect and overall player which is my opinion and it seems to be the consensus. However I am speculating that Lynch has a better career than Irons as one would be vice versa.

 

[OregonPackFan]

a consensus is not an argument, the consensus is wrong just as often as it is right.

 

[porky88]

a consensus is not an argument, the consensus is wrong just as often as it is right.

How do you know it's wrong in this case? Can you see into the future? The fact is Lynch could be a hit or a bust. The Draft is nothing more than a hit and miss game anyways.

 

[PackCrazed4]

only one monday night game... what the hell is that all about... ive been spoiled with upwards of 3 a year and now just one.??? and NONE AT LAMBEAU!?


initial opinion/hope - 11 - 5 NFC North champions.

Don't sweat it, Monday Nights suck now because of ESPN, just glad we got a Sunday game with Madden and Michaels


Plus, we have back to back Thursday Night games, thats unheard of and we have it! Pretty cool