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OK..if not Sharper...

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by P@ck66, Jul 21, 2005.

  1. P@ck66

    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    then how about Antonio Freeman?

    Does he belong in the Packer Hall of Fame?
     
  2. musccy

    musccy Cheesehead

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  3. carol k

    carol k Cheesehead

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    We were at that game. It was the first game we were ever able to attend at Lambeau, and we loved it--even the rain. :lol: :lol: :lol:
     
  4. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    Hey - don't be dissin' Majik Man now... He gave the whole town and the Team hope that things really could be turned around... Take it this way - imagine Majik Man not getting that shoulder injury - which was, after all, a freak occurrence... I went back and looked at his stats and they're not bad at all. Especially when you look at the years just prior to him coming onto the scene. The year before ('88?) We only won like five games all year... the next year was as if Lombardi has just come back to life (almost)...

    One wonders if Brett would have made the grade - Don Majkowski was a better QB and Brett Favre was still using his jock mentality to pull him thru instead of watchin game film... outright admits as such in his Book (FAVRE) & on the DVD that's inside....

    Also - where my girl works, here in Indy, a certain former QB from Notre Dame showed up to buy some furniture... it's a Kittles Furniture Store - well, anyway,... he has this new web site called - www.NDQB1.com - go check it out... I then did a search on the web using GOOGLE and found this other link on his stats - http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... elBl00.htm - what you want to do is start clickin' on each of the years hyperlinks you see... and then scroll down to review the whole page each time... food for thought on the situation(s) at that time in history... to be sure. Check it out. I'll be giving this guy a call personally to have him stop by our Clubhouse as the season gets started.

    Majik Man gets the call, period! Freeman? Still up for discussion....
     
  5. Obi1

    Obi1 Cheesehead

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    PREZ,

    I agree with you about Majkowski.

    His ability to make a play by passing, running, whatever, put a very BAD Packer team at 10-6 in 1989. Though I believe that the Packers were coming off a 4-12 season, thus making the schedule relatively easy. Of course beating the niners at SF said it all.

    Majik YES!

    Freeman YES!
     
  6. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    Look at the numbers of both, and it is reasonable to say yes to both for entry to the Packers' HOF.

    Majik, barring injury, was on the road to being a real nice player for us. Great leadership skills...a very underrated quality he possessed in spades. He was the beginning of the Green Bay resurgence and NEVER looked back with animosity after he was let loose...always a GB guy!

    How many times did Free and Favre hook up for TDs? He goes in due to the sheer number of scores he put together over his time with Favre....plus, the guy played with a broken forearm, returned ONE WEEK after having his jaw broken (played with it wired for like 6 or 8 weeks) and never flinched from the big hit...especially on the "must have" plays at critical moments.

    Forget how he left town, remember what he did while here...Free was all heart and guts...but he lost his wheels (limited as they were) and was never the same player.
     
  7. musccy

    musccy Cheesehead

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    Prez...I'm not being critical of Majik at all, I'm just saying that he had a few really strong years, and then was more or less done (yes injury played a part).

    I think both belong because they were tied to some very key packer memories, and all the points digs just brought up.
     
  8. agopackgo4

    agopackgo4 Cheesehead

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    Are you serious?!?!?????????????????? Freeman?? He had like two good years for the pack that is it! Yes he made some nice plays in bad seasons but then again at that time so did Corey Bradford and Billy Schreador.
     
  9. PackerTraxx

    PackerTraxx Cheesehead

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    Sharper and Freeman have numbers enough to go into the PHOF, but it is not a slam dunk. I see their numbers and impact similarily effective to Bennett's and Majic's. However, Majic and Bennett stayed loyal to the Packers where Freeman and Sharper "spit on the Packers". Hence I would not vote either of them in.
     
  10. musccy

    musccy Cheesehead

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    Agreed...as for them spitting on the Packers...

    Freeman: The contract was a debacle, and him leaving was pretty ugly, but at least for me, he mended the fences when he ate crow and came back to the Pack 2 yrs. ago.

    Sharper: Could have been a better leader, tackler, and could have played through more injuries, but he just didn't want to take a paycut. I disagree w/ him, but don't blame him for that.


    The SB TD and Monday Night Miracle were a lot more memorable, to me at least, than anything Bradford or Billy did.
     
  11. PackerTraxx

    PackerTraxx Cheesehead

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    mus, you have point with Free, but when he came back it was out of a big neccessity for both parties. I still don't like his attitude toward the Pack and would vote no.

    Sharper would not take a pay cut on the last year of a contract with GB that was there for the sole purpose of spreading the signing bonus out. The salary figure was exhorbitant, it would never be paid and every party knew it. So he took a pay cut anyway and defected to a rival. If he had been classy like Butler and volunteered or even just agreed to a pay cut, realizing his skills have dimished, I would think differently. Even though he was never anywhere near as good as Butler. I still vote no for him also.

    These guys are borderline PHOF IMO and need everthing going for them. Unlike Brett whose sheer numbers dictate he goes in.

    I would vote Gilbert Brown and William Henderson in long before Sharper and Free. JMHO
     
  12. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    Injury played a MAJOR part in Majik's fall from the Number One QB position.. hands down!
    It was a freak tackle which almost no one has seen since.
    Let's see you go thru a shoulder injury like that and keep normal use... Especially when simply lifting weights....
    Without the injury - we seen Wolf sign Favre and the two of them fight it out for probably (?) two years at least... and with Favre's wild ways in 1993 (remember fellas :?: ) It could have very well ended with Majik Man as the starter flat out - who knows what Holmgren would have done with that type of an opiton.... damn straight he was so frustrated with the INT's and the lack of focus with Brett that he damn near did sit him down....

    It's an interesting scenario to ponder....
     
  13. musccy

    musccy Cheesehead

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    traxx...this sharper thing is basically what Drew Rosenhaus' biggest beef w/ the NFL is...Both sides agree to a deal, but if the team thinks you're underperforming, you're cut...but if the player thinks he's outplaying his contract, tough luck.

    Now of course I understand why that is, I'm all against the Javon thing, blah blah, and of course Sharper had to have known he was stealing from the Pack...but if I were Sharper, would I be a little upset that contracts weren't 2-way streets, maybe a little bit.
     
  14. Steel Wheels

    Steel Wheels Cheesehead

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    Antonio Freeman had 3 solid years for the Pack where he had 70 or more catches, in 1997, 1998 and 1999.

    Freeman had 239 catches for 3741 yds and 32 TD's.

    Only Sterling Sharpe has matched those numbers in Packers history.
     
  15. Obi1

    Obi1 Cheesehead

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    Chase,

    Are you REALLY comparing the two? You've GOT to be kidding. Freeman was no where NEAR the receiver SS was.

    I know, I know, Packers should re-sign Freeman... Right?
     
  16. Steel Wheels

    Steel Wheels Cheesehead

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    I am not comparing the two receivers. I am stating only Sterling Sharpe has done better than Antonio Freeman in Packer history.
     
  17. Obi1

    Obi1 Cheesehead

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    Actually Chase, Freeman was a product of the times and the passer. Had Freeman been around some other era, I.E. Lombardi, Lambeau, Starr, etc. He would have been little more than a punt returner/3rd receiver.

    Holmgren (the times) and Favre (passer) created the superstar in Freeman.

    I don't think Freeman was the receiver Hutson was. Even Dowler, Howton, Dale, Lofton were all arguably better.
     
  18. PackerTraxx

    PackerTraxx Cheesehead

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    First of all, a basic fact of sports is you must be good enough to make the team. In the pros there is another dimension added, you must be good enough to make the team and warrant your pay. That is part of the contract and the players and agents know that full well. Not that much different than anyone else's job.

    Rottenlouse should have no beef with that either. What his does is pick out specific examples to back himself up. When in actuality the deals,over all, protect the players much more than the owners. Look at Hunt, Reynolds, KGB, Edwards, players who way underplayed their contracts but were kept around because the team could not afford to absorb the signing bonus. I would veture to say there are a lot more players overpaid than underpaid. Another thing Rottenlouse does is refuses to acknowledge signing bonuses. Like they are a birthright or something.

    As I said, Sharper and his agent knew full well the last year of his contract was solely for the purpose of being able to spread his signing bonus out so they could give him the huge one he wanted. Again protecting the player.
     
  19. musccy

    musccy Cheesehead

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    traxx...for the most part I agree with you, I'm just saying that there is a double standard...again, I'm basically in favor of it, but, considering that one exists, I think Sharper really didn't throw up much of a fuss.
     
  20. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    Actually, I think SW is right - part of what is taken into consideration rght off - is the Player's performance stats. We didn't win any SuperBowls with Sterling Sharpe on the Roster, either! In fact, I'll go so far as to say Sharpe was an ego-maniac who thought the whole team revolved around him. Whereas Freeman was just overpaid and decided to do what we now call the Randy Moss syndrome (I play when I wanna play).

    Think about it - When Sterling Sharpe was there.. what kind of yearly production was the Packers coming up with..(?) Go back and review... THe Packers were finally sitting in a position that they hadn't seen in almost two decades.. back to some solid production, certainly - but NOT finding ourselves headed into the Playoffs and certainly not going to the Division Championship game..C'mon, were we?

    Here's my take - if Sterling Sharpe got in - then so should Freeman.
    Sharpe held out for more dough, too - his trouble was he lived up to what Owners and Team Mgmt are always fearful of.... and that's the "injury bug" - which Players CANNOT defend in any way.... Teams don't want to hand out tons of dough to a Player knowing he could get a Career ending injury at any time - remember Donald Driver landing on his head? Where did that almost go? Just about like Sterling Sharpe..... What about Ferguson just last year .... end of argument.

    I say he (Freeman) gets in and have voted as such!
     
  21. Obi1

    Obi1 Cheesehead

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    I agree that Freeman should be in but NO he was NO WHERE near the receiver Sharpe was.

    Sharpe WAS the Packers before Brett Favre. He didn't need the Brett Favre to lead the league in Receptions, Tds, Yards, etc. He did that w/ Majkowski.

    It was his absence that caused the Packers to adjust their gameplan so that they could be a better team that propelled them into the championships. I beg to wonder what if Packers HAD SS for the 97-99 seasons... Think about the possibilities?

    Packers won w/o Sharpe, they won w/o Freeman. But they were NOT any where CLOSE to being the same caliber receivers.
     
  22. P@ck66

    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    Sterling Sharpe was a dominant player on a BAD team...

    i remember he used to catch the ball..put his head down...and literal CRUSH the puny defensive backs...

    he also made a great many diving catches..especially in the end-zone...

    Say what you will about his personality, but SS gave his all on the field...that is what probably shortened his career...and he could not help it if the rest of the Packer team wasn't good enough to make it to the playoffs--he did his part...

    There seems to be some kind of a bias on this website that insists that Packer players have to be some kind of monastic martyrs to the game of football and to the Green Bay Packers...or else they are tossed upon the scrap heap of oblivion....

    Look at the money Sharpe made...and compare it with what player's with half his talent make today...and Sharpe being injured, has to depend on that money the rest of his life...or go out and get another job...
     
  23. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    The money line comment for Sharpe against Freeman is just off-kilter here....
    That's like saying "look what Nitschke made and now what KGB makes....
    It's apples & oranges and not logical conjecture.....

    The problem I had with Sterling was... he thought he should get the ball every damn time... only he deserved to get the ball. And constantly said so in the huddle - I saw several articles printed up speaking about his singular attitude.. We may have won, with Majik throwin' him the spike... but he caused a lot of unrest on the Team along the way in doing so... a very greedy WR.... I like the guy well enough - he's pretty savvy about football. It'd been better had he left his EGO outside the parking lot at Lambeau.... and he didn't always do that. That's my point.

    So what do you do - one being selfish with hogging the ball and the other being selfish with taking plays off... As I said, if one gets in, then the other should as well. Remember the good things about either and let's move on with the Packer Pride we all have.
     
  24. agopackgo4

    agopackgo4 Cheesehead

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    Come on, Freeman isn't even in the same league as SS, you have got to be kidding me, hey why dont we put in some of these other guys then too that we have had in the past like Corey Bradford, he had a good year with the packers too, putting Freeman in the PHOF is CRAZY there is NO way that he would go in there, I would put Donald Driver in there before Freeman. :hammer:
     
  25. Obi1

    Obi1 Cheesehead

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    I think the comparison isn't even close. Freeman Vs. Sharpe.

    As a RECEIVER, Sharpe wins out by a league or 3...

    Seems to me, Sharpe also kept a more wholesome lifestyle where as Freeman tended to paint the town red a bit.

    Its NOT a question of who do we like better. Its a question of who was the better receiver?

    Like I said, I thought Freeman would be right behind Howton, Lofton, Dale, and Dowler. Now add Brooks to that list and I think that is where Freeman is.

    Are all thse guys mentioned in the PHOF?
     

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