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Offseason begins today

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by DTown SBrown, Jan 16, 2012.

  1. DTown SBrown

    DTown SBrown Cheesehead

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    Who stays? Who Goes?

    My players and coaches list of gone (or needs gone) are:

    Capers ( whatever he taught Matthews last year is gone, or no longer effective for the rest of the D)
    W. Moss (will likely move with Capers, or be in competition for a HC job)

    Players:
    J. Bush (I have always said he should be gone, but actually played really well this season, which will of course be the year we actually DO let him walk)
    R. Grant (Simply cannot justify keeping him around any longer, need to see what we can draft to compliment Starks/ Saine, perhaps a big body back)
    D. Driver (played a great few games to round out the season, but age plus usage are simply going to likely retire him)
    J. Finley aka YOTDB (Year Of The Dropped Balls must have been spending extra time giving pointers to the WR team the last month. I truely blame him for many of the mistakes on O this season. He always seemed to drop the costly one, and in turn would put more pressure on the rest of the team to recover. Did not show up in the record until yesterday, but I cannot think of a more Over-rated player in the NFL currently. Let someone else pay for his mistakes)
    C. Clifton- (too old, too hurt, too unreliable anymore)
    M. Flynn- (we better franchise and trade him, to not do so would be one of the biggest walkoff mistakes since Drew Brees)

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Rodgers in the House

    Rodgers in the House Cheesehead

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    I agree with all those cuts but Bush. As much as I hated him a few years ago, last year and this year he has really stepped up. We need experience in our secondary.
     
  3. VolvoD

    VolvoD Cheesehead

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    Donald Driver will be back...when he had the ball thrown to him this year, he was effective.
     
  4. DOCTORAPK

    DOCTORAPK Cheesehead

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    DTSB, RitH, I totally agree with you about Capers. When I heard on TV a couple of days ago that the Raiders, thru McKenzie, were thinking about hiring Dom as the HC...I thought ...big deal ...you can have him PLEASE!

    Somebody is around who can lead the defense back. I mean...look at what Harbaugh has done in SF in just one year (actually it's something like 10 months???) I gotta believe we can get someone better too.

    AND draft, acquire, (i.e.BOTH)..... STUD interior linebackers and DEs. The secondary is much maligned...but actually I think they were shown to be "vulnerable' because they had to pass-defend for a half hour every down. The rush was THAT anemic. Opposing QB's had all day to make plays. Hell we gave Kyle Orton delusions of adequacy.
     
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  5. Dan115

    Dan115 Guest

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    It will come down to money with Ted. I think he will tag Finley. Driver will only be back if he takes a big cut in pay. Grant doesn't have a contract.
     
  6. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I am really amazed at how in one year people are ready to fire DC..

    what if you knew Dc has been ticked all season because his guys just couldnt do what he was asking, and no one better was able to take the offending players spot?

    That is what I am pretty sure happened, maybe someone can confirm this?

    also the loss of Collins and Jenkins hurt more than people know...Jenkins provided the pass rush we needed, which freed up BJ, and Clay, Pickett and Green...Say it is false, but it is what was happening

    And Collins, as soon as he left we saw it unfold in front of us..That secondary just melted

    So blame DC..but it is wrong
     
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  7. Dan115

    Dan115 Guest

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    I agree. I bet Capers is begging TED to give him something he can work with.
     
  8. Brandon

    Brandon Cheesehead

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    J. Bush (I have always said he should be gone, but actually played really well this season, which will of course be the year we actually DO let him walk)

    Bush is probably our best special team player, and has proven a valuable backup in the secondary. I don't like the idea of letting him go, he's grown up leaps and bounds from his first year with us.

    R. Grant (Simply cannot justify keeping him around any longer, need to see what we can draft to compliment Starks/ Saine, perhaps a big body back)

    Saine has not shown anything yet, so there's no reason to assume he will be anything special. Grant has been inconsistent and I do like Starks as a runner better, so I wouldn't be disappointed in letting Grant go. We also have Alex Green who was injured this year, so I'm hoping to see what he's all about next year.

    D. Driver (played a great few games to round out the season, but age plus usage are simply going to likely retire him)

    Driver currently has a contract until next year, so there's no reason to assume we'll be letting him go until that expires. And even after that we may re-sign him to a 1-year deal if he is interested. He's lost his speed but he's still a tremendous possession receiver and with his heart and passion for the game I hope he is still in the mix. He's a leader on offense and understands the field better than any of our players do.


    J. Finley aka YOTDB (Year Of The Dropped Balls must have been spending extra time giving pointers to the WR team the last month. I truely blame him for many of the mistakes on O this season. He always seemed to drop the costly one, and in turn would put more pressure on the rest of the team to recover. Did not show up in the record until yesterday, but I cannot think of a more Over-rated player in the NFL currently. Let someone else pay for his mistakes)

    It's hard to argue on this one. Finley for the last couple years looked pretty good, then all of the sudden he's become flat. I'm going to go out on a limb here and give him another chance and hope to see him explode next year. If he continues to drop balls like he did last year then you might have a case, but remember Jordy Nelson and James Jones did the same thing in our super bowl run last year, and look how they have improved.

    C. Clifton- (too old, too hurt, too unreliable anymore)

    No question Clifton needs to go. He is old and he is obviously injury prone. I really liked the way Marshall Newhouse played this year, maybe stick him in that spot and then work on Sherrod's technique as a backup.


    M. Flynn- (we better franchise and trade him, to not do so would be one of the biggest walkoff mistakes since Drew Brees)


    Although it would be great to have a reliable, talented backup there is no doubt in my mind that Flynn will be traded and we will get tremendous value out of him.


    Capers ( whatever he taught Matthews last year is gone, or no longer effective for the rest of the D)

    Matthews has been double teamed all year, and not having a reliable pass rusher on the opposite side doesn't give him much of a chance. Capers is a master of the 3-4 defense, and he is a big reason why the Packers lead the league in interceptions. Don't think for a second that this organization wouldn't miss him.
     
  9. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

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    I say keep bush, he is money on special teams and he is much improved on D.

    Doesn't Wells still need a new contract?

    Finley can stay but he won't get crazy money, maybe just the tag.

    Tramon can be cut at any time and I will be happy. I hope this theory of the defense going rogue is true and that it wasn't Capers fault and if it did go rogue it was the d-backs just ball hawking and not following assignments.

    Good bye Grant.

    TT might have to break form and actually get some defensive FA players who can play starting day 1 of the season. Browner is a UFA for Seattle, go do whatever you need to in order to acquire his physically gifted services.
     
  10. Bensalama21

    Bensalama21 Ben

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    I have been saying this all year. Nothing has changed schematically for Capers. It is almost impossible for the Defensive coordinator to go from the best to the worst defense in back to back seasons. It was simply the loss of Jenkins and Collins.
     

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  11. DTown SBrown

    DTown SBrown Cheesehead

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    I also would say that if Collin if Collins cannot come back from his injury, it may be time to move Cwood to Safety. His coverage was suspect all season, and his athletic ability/ speed/ quickness is waning. He is still our best back, but outside of taking the ball away on a good route jump, he has become a bit of a liability in coverage. I think the DCs know it too, as we saw a massive swing to zone coverage from our good old bump man of last season. How many times did we see WRs running free through zones in the last 2 months?

    That fact alone is the biggest issue this D had this season.
     
  12. Ceodore

    Ceodore Cheesehead

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    Good call, something happened here with him. He was a stud at one point but was incredibly soft this year. I don't know how old he is if that would be a factor or if he got injured or something. But something is wrong with this guy.
     
  13. PackersFanfromCali80

    PackersFanfromCali80 Cheesehead

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    Remember he was injured in the first game against the Saints and I don't think he ever recovered. He admitted that in some interviews that's why he would give the receivers he was supposed to be covering space because it lessened the strain on his injured arm.
     
  14. The Real Pack Attack

    The Real Pack Attack Cheesehead

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    I have a feeling the loss of Collins hurt Tramon more than anyone. The injury he suffered early in the year to his shoulder also hurt him. After Collins was hurt the Packers seemed to go completely away from the press coverage that Tramon and Charles were so successful with last year. I think it was because they were never confident that the safeties would be in the right position to help out. Either that or his shoulder bothered him more than he let on and he couldn't do press coverage because of his shoulder. Either way Tramon really regressed. TT needs to address the secondary this off season. If Collins can't come back is it time to move Woodson to safety?
     
  15. neilfii

    neilfii Hall of Fame Fan

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    LTF I agree with much of what you say, and that is true more often than not (not just in this post). If we are going to have a 3-4 scheme we need to help Capers get what he needs to make that happen. That being said, I do have to blame him some because the fact is that he is responsible for working with what he has. Anyone can draw up a great defense, prepare great game plans, etc. all based on having the players to perform, but if you don't have them you don't have them. Capers needed to be creative enough to come up with adjustments and wrinkles and he just never did. He needs to accept some of the responsibility. JMO
     
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  16. DOCTORAPK

    DOCTORAPK Cheesehead

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    Unh-unh...ltf...nope..... the DC, Dom Capers (another DC) I think has gotten a little long in the tooth.
    It's time for a change.

    Stunts, gimmick blitzes, etc. just don't cut it once people figure them out.

    This year = the Pack gave up more passing yards than ANY team in the history of the NFL according to Joe Buck and Fox.
    dig..."more yeards than ANY team has EVER given up."

    Holy :poop:!

    It's a new day.

    Do you mean to tell me that anyone, if they see the same staff and players and Collins back (Jenkins is gone) ....won't just barf?

    WOW...that's scary to even think about. We sucked on D this year.............and next year, what??......more of the same?????

    Nooooooo..


    Others have changed.

    Last year ...49ers under Singletary = a joke.

    This year. Harbaugh comes in. Gets Jim Fangio as the new DC...and BOOM AWESOME defense.
    Harbaugh's brother loses his DC to another coaching job and he promotes his assistant Chuck Pagano to DC ... and (lesser boom)...the defense IMPROVES.


    And Capers


    We go from 27 sacks last year to 16.

    We give up more passing yards than anyone else in the history of the NFL.




    It's time for a Big Change in the defense ...from TOP to BOTTOM...from coaches to players


    This isn't because of an injury or two. Hell, we had more injuries LAST year.

    It's time for a CHANGE!
     
  17. peteralan71

    peteralan71 Cheesehead

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    If that's the case then TT will know it and will hold onto him. I think that this is something only ppl in the organization will know for sure. But yeah losing Collins this yr created a horrible cascade that put the writing on the wall: Can't win without a defense. I pray that he's ok for next yr, and that if he isn't, that he recognizes it and hangs them up.
     
  18. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Who started the playoffs last year in secondary?

    Wood, Nick, Williams...Who is missing this year?

    I can tell you that not having Collins there HURT more than anyone knows...It was discussed on the radio today with Bill Michaels......Williams was suffering because of it..Tramon wont come out and say it, but from getting emails, and texts from players, Michaels stated that Bush, Burnett, and Peprah had real issues with communication which made Williams and Woody play out of position..

    Depending on Burnett to replace Collins didnt work out at all..

    Maybe Peprah and Bush should worry about the grass they play on, and not the illegal stuff ;)
     
  19. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    If folks are going to suggest that Dom Capers should go (Something I'm still not sure to agree with or not) then how about replacement ideas in the same post?
    I think DC did the best with what he had.
    I know that he is always being blamed here for screwing up or not making adjustments.
    But maybe other teams figured out how to play better against the Pack.
    Like the Giants did. (Plus having a death in the family certainly didn't help either.)
     
  20. Mr. StyleZ

    Mr. StyleZ Banned Banned

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    There sure is a lot of apologists here.

    Worst pass defense in NFL history.

    Someone needs to be held accountable.. There's no way the personnel we have is THAT bad.

    Week 1 to week 19 what things did you see different? How long was Walden left in there to suck it up?? Why wasn't So'oto given a real opportunity? Guy came in and made some plays! That's more than Zombo, Walden, and Jones could say. Really were we losing anything by giving the guy a stretch to prove himself? No, lets march Walden out there every week and hope he doesn't screw up again..
     
  21. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    I can't be optimistic about Collins' return, and even if he does come back it only takes one more bad hit to force him to retire.

    Williams had a bad year but we can't get rid of everyone back there. Woodson, Shields, Williams we have to keep. If we can get our hands on a stud CB or Safety in the draft then go for it. That and a pass rusher.
     
  22. DOCTORAPK

    DOCTORAPK Cheesehead

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    Last year...SF was in the toilet.

    This year they're were one of the best in the NFL.

    What's the difference.this year?
    .....probably their new DC Jim Fangio, and Harbaugh's inspiration.

    Big changes come about thru big attitude adjustment, leadership and personnel change.
    SF didn't change personnel much...they DID change their attitude and leadership,

    BOOM ...their defense gave up one rushing TD all year...

    The pack CAN and SHOULD change IMO.

    I think:

    1) new DC and new outlook

    2) three new DE's, three interior linebackers (we only need two each, but a spare to allow for injury, etc.)...
    with all of these guys mean and rough. The DE's to put in a pass rush...the ILBs to hurt people who run at the Pack.
    The best defenses in the NFL, (Baltimore, San Fran, Houston, Pitt,etc) all have linebackers who are big, mean and physical.
    What?...we've got AJ Hawk?

    I didn't say it would be easy finding these guys. But if we can, instead of worrying about blitzing the safety or CB as a stunt......we could have a fearsome defense.

    Around the league...the Packer's defense is a joke. As Deion Sanders said on the NFL channel on the Sunday NFL Gameday Morning Show 3 weeks ago ...."we all know the Packers can't stop anybody, but they can put up a ton of points".

    N.B. i.e. "...the Packer can't stop anybody.."
     
  23. Jules

    Jules The Colts Fan

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    I agree with you at times but honestly your pass D was 31st I think until the final game lol. The Pats/Packers switched spots which was almost sad.

    It has baffled me at times this year too. I don't think the personnel is as bad as the numbers suggest either. Nearing the end of the season I was having more faith in the Colts D over the Packers which was pretty darn sad.
     
  24. The Real Pack Attack

    The Real Pack Attack Cheesehead

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    I agree about Collins. I worry more about his long range health than the Packers. He is one hit away from being paralyzed.

    Do you think its time for Woodson to move to safety?
     
  25. JacobInFlorida

    JacobInFlorida Cheesehead

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    You guys using San Fran as an example do realize they had one of the top defenses in the league in 09, right? They slumped a little last year but that happens. They really didnt come out of nowhere this year.

    Capers is a fine DC. We should definitely keep him. I think a year in the offseason program will do wonders for a lot of the young guys that regressed this year. Thompson may have made a short term mistake by not signing Jenkins but he's fairly old and injury prone. There's no guarantee he wont be injured from here to what's left on his contract. If anything, I think he didn't underestimate Jenkins, but overestimated his replacements.
     

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