Official Studs n Duds Cinncy

Pokerbrat2000

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Again, I think the injuries on the OL are probably effecting the number of snaps that Deguara is seeing. Lewis and Tonyan are more reliable blockers and maybe even Dafney is viewed as such. I was actually surprised to see all the TE snaps, but goes to show you how heavy MLF uses them.

 

Heyjoe4

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He has been active four of the five weeks. Done an admirable job in the blocking, not amazing though. Hasn't been asked to do much in the receiving game, did catch the only target he has had (in Niner game).

Since returning he has seen 17, 24 and 13 snaps. Personally MLF has used him less than I thought he would, but having Jones and Dillon and wanting them both on the field eats some snaps no doubt for Josiah.
Thanks for the update Ty.
 

PikeBadger

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I absolutely love when we go Dillon and Jones in the backfield - opens up for sure the fattest stack of plays at his disposal. Can motion Jones out, shoot even Dillon but not to the same degree, line up in a power I even with Dillon at FB...split them and have the option to power run or sweep either way...both backs could stay in releasing both TEs or the one TE from blocking to slip free or ....I mean the options are endless.
Totally agree. I was hoping during the off season we would see both of them in formation at the same time. Jones creates decision problems for the defense when he lines up or motions out wide.
 

Heyjoe4

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Totally agree. I was hoping during the off season we would see both of them in formation at the same time. Jones creates decision problems for the defense when he lines up or motions out wide.
I'm just surprised we haven't seen these plays run yet, or to any degree. By his own admission, MLF may be playing it a little too conservative.
 

captainWIMM

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Studs: Amos, Campbell, Cobb, Rodgers
Duds: Crosby Crosby Crosby, King

Why do you have King listed as a dud? He gave up a total of 17 receiving yards.

I thought that when the announcer said Adams led the league in receptions.

Adams is leading the league in receptions as well as receiving yards after five games. This forum is the only place where this seems to be a considered a terrible thing.

While Rodgers is probably targeting Adams a bit too much for my liking you could get the impression that he's throwing his way three out of four times reading this forum.

While I don't have Red Zone stats, I would say after Sundays game, not having more than one really talented WR in Adams hurts you, especially in the Red Zone. If they are having to keep Bobby T and Jones in more to block, you lose some of your weapons. I noticed a couple of times on Sunday where Jones lined up outside, but when Rodgers looked at the defense, he motioned AJ to come back behind him for protection.

The Packers offense only ranks 27th in points per red zone opportunity at 4.40.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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The Packers offense only ranks 27th in points per red zone opportunity at 4.40.
Thanks Captain. Sounds about right and a stat that they are going to have to improve upon if they expect to beat the best teams.

Just found this article....

 

Krabs

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Why do you have King listed as a dud? He gave up a total of 17 receiving yards.
Because regardless of play fans cannot stand King. He has been exposed on some big plays and fans cannot let it go. We should probably just cut him :whistling: .
Adams is leading the league in receptions as well as receiving yards after five games. This forum is the only place where this seems to be a considered a terrible thing.
This is something I just cannot understand. I do understand that Rodgers has missed some open guys, but trusting Adams to make a play makes total sense to me.
The Packers offense only ranks 27th in points per red zone opportunity at 4.40.
This needs to get fixed. I think we will see more guys in motion and jet sweeps. The classic MLF scheme we saw last season that made them the best red zone offense in the league.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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This is something I just cannot understand. I do understand that Rodgers has missed some open guys, but trusting Adams to make a play makes total sense to me.

This needs to get fixed. I think we will see more guys in motion and jet sweeps. The classic MLF scheme we saw last season that made them the best red zone offense in the league.
Don't get me wrong, I love the Rodgers-Adams connection and it probably is the top duo in the league right now. However, I think the red zone issues might be related to Rodgers over depending on his favorite target. Hopefully, when Bahk, Jenkins and Myers are all back, Rodgers will feel a bit more comfortable in the pocket and find other open receivers. Again, Davante should be the #1 target, but not if it comes at the expense of stalling drives due to not finding other more open targets.
 

Poppa San

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This needs to get fixed. I think we will see more guys in motion and jet sweeps. The classic MLF scheme we saw last season that made them the best red zone offense in the league.
Defenses adapted. Up to MLF to counter. I expect it to happen when his OL is more experienced than 4 first year starters.
 

Krabs

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Defenses adapted. Up to MLF to counter. I expect it to happen when his OL is more experienced than 4 first year starters.
I don't feel like I've seen as much in terms of multiple players going in motion pre-snap to confuse the defense. I could be wrong. Maybe there is a stat on that.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I don't feel like I've seen as much in terms of multiple players going in motion pre-snap to confuse the defense. I could be wrong. Maybe there is a stat on that.
I think the patchwork OL has something to do with that, as well as a few other changes to the offense. MLF seems to have dumbed down the offensive calls for now. I also like when the Packers go into a modified hurry up mode (no huddle), but I don't expect to see much of that (outside of when there is a need to for clock purposes) until the offensive line is healthier.
 

Sunshinepacker

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Don't get me wrong, I love the Rodgers-Adams connection and it probably is the top duo in the league right now. However, I think the red zone issues might be related to Rodgers over depending on his favorite target. Hopefully, when Bahk, Jenkins and Myers are all back, Rodgers will feel a bit more comfortable in the pocket and find other open receivers. Again, Davante should be the #1 target, but not if it comes at the expense of stalling drives due to not finding other more open targets.

I keep hearing this and the assumption is that someone else is open that Rodgers is ignoring because he'd rather throw to a covered Adams. First, it's actually pretty rare that Adams is covered well and second, there is a whole lot of belief that these other guys are open when the other guys are a collection of mediocre receivers that don't really get open that well. Perhaps MVS with his deep speed, but that doesn't really transfer well to the redzone. You could maybe argue that they should run Jones more often when close to the goal line since he's REALLY exceptional in short yardage but I'm perfectly willing for Rodgers to throw to the guy who A) is going to be where he's supposed to be and B) is the best receiver in the NFL.
 

tynimiller

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I keep hearing this and the assumption is that someone else is open that Rodgers is ignoring because he'd rather throw to a covered Adams. First, it's actually pretty rare that Adams is covered well and second, there is a whole lot of belief that these other guys are open when the other guys are a collection of mediocre receivers that don't really get open that well. Perhaps MVS with his deep speed, but that doesn't really transfer well to the redzone. You could maybe argue that they should run Jones more often when close to the goal line since he's REALLY exceptional in short yardage but I'm perfectly willing for Rodgers to throw to the guy who A) is going to be where he's supposed to be and B) is the best receiver in the NFL.

Disagree to a point. Even Rodgers has admitted to multiple times Lazard has been open. One cannot blame him for looking to the best receiver in the league at making himself open even with double teams. Until it is an issue however and we see him forcing throws to a covered up Davante - to me it is a no concern. The issue will be if when a team forces him to have to choose to force a ball to DA or actually progress off him and doesn't is where an issue will happen.

Honestly, that is part of what can make this team insanely deadly. Lazard is exceptional in third down situations and is quite sure handed....savvy with his releases (not saying Adams level) too. I know many claim our supporting cast is all kinds of things, but they were part of arguably Rodgers' most efficient and awesome statistical years last year.
 
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rmontro

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Adams is leading the league in receptions as well as receiving yards after five games. This forum is the only place where this seems to be a considered a terrible thing.

While Rodgers is probably targeting Adams a bit too much for my liking you could get the impression that he's throwing his way three out of four times reading this forum.
I don't care if he throws to Adams a billion times. I just don't like it when he throws a picked or incomplete pass because he's trying to jam it in to Adams while there's a wide open guy available. Honestly, this is just the luxury of nitpicking about a few plays, because Rodgers is the best QB in the league, or close to it. But we have to talk about something, and in a critical close game, this kind of thing can make a difference.
 

Heyjoe4

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I don't care if he throws to Adams a billion times. I just don't like it when he throws a picked or incomplete pass because he's trying to jam it in to Adams while there's a wide open guy available. Honestly, this is just the luxury of nitpicking about a few plays, because Rodgers is the best QB in the league, or close to it. But we have to talk about something, and in a critical close game, this kind of thing can make a difference.
Well MVS being out has something to do with this. Cobb's receptions are going up, including a bog catch at the end (the REAL end) of the Cincy game. I don't get why Lazard isn't getting more targets. ESB, in my opinion, is useless as a receiver, blocker, whatever. Taylor seems to have been pigeon-holed to STs, where he's a helluva gunner.

It just seems that MLF has become more conservative. I don't know if it's Rodgers or MLF deciding to up Adams' targets. But when a guy leads the league in most categories that count, it's hard to argue.

I'd like MLF to get back to RPOs and jet sweeps, and continue to use Jones and Dillon as receivers. I do agree that #12 should not be jamming passes to #17 just because he's there.
 

rmontro

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It just seems that MLF has become more conservative. I don't know if it's Rodgers or MLF deciding to up Adams' targets. But when a guy leads the league in most categories that count, it's hard to argue.
Maybe MLF doesn't want to offend Aaron so he doesn't mention it :)
 

captainWIMM

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This is something I just cannot understand. I do understand that Rodgers has missed some open guys, but trusting Adams to make a play makes total sense to me.

There's absolutely no doubt Rodgers has missed open receivers. It seems fans don't realize that happens to every other elite quarterback in the league as well though.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Rodgers-Adams connection and it probably is the top duo in the league right now. However, I think the red zone issues might be related to Rodgers over depending on his favorite target. Hopefully, when Bahk, Jenkins and Myers are all back, Rodgers will feel a bit more comfortable in the pocket and find other open receivers. Again, Davante should be the #1 target, but not if it comes at the expense of stalling drives due to not finding other more open targets.

Rodgers has targeted Adams on only eight of 29 passing attempts in the red zone this season though.
 

Heyjoe4

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Good points. We expect perfection from Rodgers and that's not reasonable. That said, he comes closer to perfection than almost all other QBs, playing or retired.
 

Heyjoe4

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Maybe MLF doesn't want to offend Aaron so he doesn't mention it :)
I hope not. It seems the consensus is that Rodgers will be gone after this year. That probably makes MLF less concerned about hurting his feelings. Then again Rodgers probably knew that running three straight plays into the Cincy line was a lousy idea. He was following orders.

When the team gets healthier I hope we see more of the game plan from last year with RPOs, jet sweeps, and using the RBs more as receivers. I'm not complaining. 4-1 is a great start.
 

Heyjoe4

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Yeah, I had to keep looking to the sideline to make sure it was Mike McCarthy out there.
LOL that was my reaction - especially after Adams caught that 50 yard plus pass to the Cincy 6 and MLF ran three straight running plays into a 7 or 8 man box, settling for a FG. Please MLF, come back!
 
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In today's NFL, you're much better off passing on the high floor, low ceiling QB's and taking your shot on the high ceiling guys, even if the floor is lower.
Good point. I agree with that and especially with the recent salary inflation at QB. Possibly why they took a chance on Love later Day 1. It’s kinda how I see Jordan, he’s either going to perform really well or completely fizzle.
Green Bay has not gotten the production out of the TE position this year the way they did last year. I don't know who's fault it is, or much care, but I do hope they can get this fixed.
Lombardi would be more thrilled at the blocking than the catching.
The first thing comes to mind.
Is it possibly our primary focus for TE has been to solidify a wounded and Rookie OL? Just a thought.
If that’s the case it means we should see some gradually receiving production increase as the year progresses. I don’t think either of us blames them for the priority of keeping #12 upright.
 

milani

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Again, I think the injuries on the OL are probably effecting the number of snaps that Deguara is seeing. Lewis and Tonyan are more reliable blockers and maybe even Dafney is viewed as such. I was actually surprised to see all the TE snaps, but goes to show you how heavy MLF uses them.


Good point. I agree with that and especially with the recent salary inflation at QB. Possibly why they took a chance on Love later Day 1. It’s kinda how I see Jordan, he’s either going to perform really well or completely fizzle.

Lombardi would be more thrilled at the blocking than the catching.
The first thing comes to mind.
Is it possibly our primary focus for TE has been to solidify a wounded and Rookie OL? Just a thought.
If that’s the case it means we should see some gradually receiving production increase as the year progresses. I don’t think either of us blames them for the priority of keeping #12 upright.
No problem with a TE blocking effectively. That was the primary purpose when the position was invented. Now throw in pass catching skills when needed and you are in high gear. The Packers once got Ron Kramer because he was a beast of a blocker. Then Lombardi realized he could catch passes as well.
 

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I'm not going to advocate for Adams to not be on the Packers for Rodgers to play better. I think it is very reasonable for Rodgers to be looking Adams way with him being the arguably best WR in the league. If that does occasionally mean he misses a throw I can live with it. As suggested by others, I believe the game plan has been to get rid of the ball quickly due to the injuries on the offensive line. I'm sure Adams is usually the first read and if he is "NFL open" Rodgers is going to go there. Again, I can live with that.
When it's 3rd and 8 and Adams is only 2 yards downfield with Lazard equally open on the same side of the hash marks 15 yards downfield, I really can't live with that. That's just ****-poor decision-making unless MLF has explicitly told him never to throw to anyone but #17, and I'm damn near 100% certain that's not the case.
 

captainWIMM

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When it's 3rd and 8 and Adams is only 2 yards downfield with Lazard equally open on the same side of the hash marks 15 yards downfield, I really can't live with that. That's just ****-poor decision-making unless MLF has explicitly told him never to throw to anyone but #17, and I'm damn near 100% certain that's not the case.

That's the huge issue with a lot of posters around here. You consider your take as a fact despite there being no truth to it all.

Here's a picture of the situation just before Rodgers released the ball on the play you mentioned:

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There's no other receiver open with Adams crossing the field with a chance to get a first down. Unfortunately the Bengals defenders played it perfectly and held him to a two-yard gain.

There was no other option for Rodgers to throw the ball though.
 
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