OFFICIAL DEFENSIVE ISSUES THREAD

longtimefan

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
25,356
Reaction score
4,086
Location
Milwaukee
It has been said, when you are the SB champ, EVERY team brings their A game..

Just something to think about
 

CarolinaPackerFan

Packers fan in Panthers country
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Messages
174
Reaction score
44
Location
North Carolina
It has been said, when you are the SB champ, EVERY team brings their A game..

Just something to think about

Not too mention we're undefeated and have a QB plating the position as well as anyone has. I think every team we play is going to study just a little bit more than usual and play just a little bit harder than usual to be the team that finally beats us.
 

Forget Favre

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Messages
9,115
Reaction score
1,807
Not too mention we're undefeated and have a QB plating the position as well as anyone has. I think every team we play is going to study just a little bit more than usual and play just a little bit harder than usual to be the team that finally beats us.
Yup.
I think that is a major part of what is going on.
Other teams are figuring out how to beat the Packers D just like how Packers O figures out how to beat the other team's D.
 

Croak

Vincit qui patitur
Moderator
Joined
Aug 15, 2010
Messages
6,478
Reaction score
1,154
Location
New Cumberland, PA
I just read in the Press Gazette online that the defensive scheme this year flipped the positions for Raji and Pickett from last year to shore up the run defense. I hadn't even noticed it. Goes to show how closely I pay attention. Now if it was my wife telling me about her day at work, I could understand the oversight. But when it comes to the Packers I try not to miss anything....
 

TJV

Lifelong Packers Fanatic
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
5,389
Reaction score
954
I heard Jason Wilde yesterday on Homer’s show. Previously Homer re-watched the San Diego game zeroing in on Matthews and thought he played a bad game, even to the point of not giving full effort. Wilde did his “homework” zeroing in on Matthews' play and reported back that he disagreed with Homer’s analysis of Matthews. Wilde did mention that Matthews lined up at LOLB on all but four plays during that game. I think that predictability had something to do with Woodson’s comments after the game. Wilde reported he had a chance to talk with Clay one-on-one for about 10 minutes yesterday. He said Clay is too much a pro to reveal any frustration he may be feeling about the his lack of sacks or the play of the defense and then he said he didn’t want to reveal any secrets but we shouldn’t be surprised to see Matthews line up a lot less predictably Monday night. That certainly won’t be a cure-all and opposing QBs and OL will no doubt identify where Matthews is pre-snap. But I think it makes sense to line him up in a variety of spots and have him stunt with DL and LBs all along the LOS on pass rushes.

In an article earlier this week on the Press Gazette website Baranczyk and Christl argue that a big problem for the D this year is shoddy tackling, a stark contrast to their play during the playoff run last season. They argue that led to the Packers allowing an average of 7.8 yards on first down against the Chargers. That kind of play puts the offense in driver’s seat and makes it difficult for the D to generate a consistent pass rush. Here’s the contrast between this season and Sunday’s game the authors draw:

On five of their 11 third-down plays, the Chargers needed 3 yards or less to get a first down. They converted four times, struck for gains of 38 and 31 yards and scored TDs on four of those series. On the six possessions when the Chargers faced a third-and-four or more, they scored one TD. Otherwise, they lost the ball twice on interceptions, punted twice and settled for a field goal when they couldn’t convert a third-and-13.”

They go on to say that last season beginning with the big win against the Giants through the first half of the Super Bowl (because of Woodson’s absence and Shield’s limited play in the second half of the Super Bowl they do not include the second half), the Packers’ D faced 71 third downs. “On 34 of those, or 49 percent of the time, the opposing offense needed 8 yards or more for a first down. Opponents needed 3 yards or less for a first down only 24 percent of the time.” They don’t report stats for all of this season and they don’t even point to yards after first contact which would indicate poor tackling but just watching the games, I think they do have a point about tackling.

The authors also make a good point about Collins. His absence obviously hurts the teams pass defense but they make the point it also has hurt the run D so far this season.
 

Jules

The Colts Fan
Joined
Feb 5, 2011
Messages
2,769
Reaction score
614
Are guys just not where they are supposed to be at times? Like people have mentioned; bad communication/possible bad tackling and missed assignments?

In 2006 the Colts run D was atrocious but they fixed it and won the SB. They spent time working ******* it in practice near the end of the year. Dungy said it was fixable and he was right. Many thought we needed new players. We did get Bob Sanders back but it was not just him. The front 7 just started to finally tackle better and maintain gaps. Just good fundamental football came back. It was all pretty simple really; better tackling, better hustle to the ball and just overall more speed.

It's like sometimes I felt the D got lazy and they woke up when needed.

The thing is like that 06 Colts D there is a weakness on this current Packers D. But, with both D's I believe the talent and coaching is there. It's just a matter of getting the job done and sorting things out.
 

Croak

Vincit qui patitur
Moderator
Joined
Aug 15, 2010
Messages
6,478
Reaction score
1,154
Location
New Cumberland, PA
Are guys just not where they are supposed to be at times? Like people have mentioned; bad communication/possible bad tackling and missed assignments?

In 2006 the Colts run D was atrocious but they fixed it and won the SB. They spent time working ******* it in practice near the end of the year. Dungy said it was fixable and he was right. Many thought we needed new players. We did get Bob Sanders back but it was not just him. The front 7 just started to finally tackle better and maintain gaps. Just good fundamental football came back. It was all pretty simple really; better tackling, better hustle to the ball and just overall more speed.

It's like sometimes I felt the D got lazy and they woke up when needed.

The thing is like that 06 Colts D there is a weakness on this current Packers D. But, with both D's I believe the talent and coaching is there. It's just a matter of getting the job done and sorting things out.

The D hasn't gotten lazy. I think it's a combination of things. They lost Barnett, Poppinga and Jenkins to free agency. Then they lost Neal and Collins to injury. Shields was injured for a while. Burnett is trying to cover and tackle with a club cast on his hand. Williams had a bad shoulder for a while and couldn't play the bump and run. Pickett and Raji have switched positions to shore up a run defense that struggled last year. Matthews is playing basically one position rather than moving around. Coach Capers is using a 2 down lineman scheme most of the time this year with a nickle package. He's only using 3 down lineman on obvious running plays. There may be more changes I missed, but when you factor in all these variables, I'm surprised at the 8-0 record.
 

FrankRizzo

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2010
Messages
5,858
Reaction score
771
Location
Dallas
The D hasn't gotten lazy. I think it's a combination of things. They lost Barnett, Poppinga and Jenkins to free agency. Then they lost Neal and Collins to injury.
Those 3 are huge.
Take away just one guy (Peppers, or Ware) from some defenses, and they'd be a shell of themselves.
We're missing 3 pretty good guys there.
Granted, we never had Neal last year either.
 

Jules

The Colts Fan
Joined
Feb 5, 2011
Messages
2,769
Reaction score
614
You guys will get Neal.....sometime. Collins was a big loss, but the pass D was not exactly rocking with him in there to start the year either. And yes some of the other DBs have been playing at less then 100%.

I still maintain things will improve and likely starting on Monday night.
 

Poppa San

* Team Owner *
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
12,821
Reaction score
2,735
Location
20 miles from Lambeau
The D hasn't gotten lazy. I think it's a combination of things. They lost Barnett, Poppinga and Jenkins to free agency. Then they lost Neal and Collins to injury. Shields was injured for a while. Burnett is trying to cover and tackle with a club cast on his hand. Williams had a bad shoulder for a while and couldn't play the bump and run. Pickett and Raji have switched positions to shore up a run defense that struggled last year. Matthews is playing basically one position rather than moving around. Coach Capers is using a 2 down lineman scheme most of the time this year with a nickle package. He's only using 3 down lineman on obvious running plays. There may be more changes I missed, but when you factor in all these variables, I'm surprised at the 8-0 record.
Poppinga and Barnett were injured most of last year so there is no loss. Jenkins was available most of the year. With him gone and Neal not available, I think that puts a huge hole in the line. Zombo was decent last year and he has been MIA. I agree with your DB analysis along with Woodson appearing to be a half step slow. Is his foot injury back? Where is Hawk hiding? The delayed MLB stunt blitz isn't getting it done anymore. Is Pickett starting to fade away? Alot of prevent defense giving up yardage? Time to try and get some younger blood on the field for a drive or three. They aren't worn out yet. I hope they have picked up most of the scheme by now.
 

SpartaChris

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Messages
3,024
Reaction score
671
call me biased but i believe we have the talent on D to be good if not great.

I agree. I think they've identified the problems, namely the communication issues. I think they've also figured out that the defensive backs are playing too flat, when they're supposed to have at least one guy to give help over the top. That was something they did well last season but haven't done very well this season. Both of those issues are fixable, and I believe they will be. Plus Burnett's cast is getting smaller and smaller, so it's only a small matter of time before that comes off and he can help with the tackling.

I also look forward to Mike Neal's return. I would love to see him get some action against Tampa Bay and then be rearin to go against Detroit and beyond. Hopefully he makes more progress in practice next week.
 

Poppa San

* Team Owner *
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
12,821
Reaction score
2,735
Location
20 miles from Lambeau
It sucks that we have to have an official defensive issues thread...
When all you have to talk about is picking nits what do you expect? It can't be all glory, laud, and honor or it looks like conceit. Don't worry though, sometime in the future they will lose and the pessimists and trolls will be out in force. You haven't been here long enough to see the aftereffects of a loss.
 

Greenbayphil

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
562
Reaction score
105
Location
Glasgow, Scotland
When all you have to talk about is picking nits what do you expect? It can't be all glory, laud, and honor or it looks like conceit. Don't worry though, sometime in the future they will lose and the pessimists and trolls will be out in force. You haven't been here long enough to see the aftereffects of a loss.

haha yeh I joined in the playoffs so I still havent been on here when we have lost xD
 

FrankRizzo

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2010
Messages
5,858
Reaction score
771
Location
Dallas
Peter King talked to Dandy Dom about the defensive problems:

How much should you be worried about that defense, Packer fans?
Let's ask the guru, Green Bay defensive coordinator Dom Capers, heading into the Monday-nighter against the Vikings.
"I don't like the way we're playing,'' Capers told me the other day. "I like the way we're taking it away, but I don't like all the big plays we're giving up, and we need to communicate a lot better going forward if we're going to fix this.

But the one thing I remember about last year was it was just about this time when we started playing well on defense. We went to New York and shut out the Jets, we held the Cowboys to seven points and the Vikings to three. Then we won our last six [including postseason] and played pretty well on defense using a lot of people. We found our niche. Now we've got to do that this season.''

So it's been done. But not since mid-2009 have the Packers given up this many points (65) in consecutive games. According to ProFootballFocus, the trio of corners who helped the Packers win the Super Bowl last year (Tramon Williams, Charles Woodson, Sam Shields) allowed nine touchdown passes all of last season; they've allowed eight this year through eight games.

I watched the tape of the Packers-Chargers game, and two or three times one defensive back would turn around after a play and yap to another. Williams, on one play, lit into a couple of his mates, presumably for not providing the safety help he thought should have been there. From talking to Capers, that's what he meant by the communication problems. I saw a defense bothering the quarterback enough but breaking down badly in the back end.

"Not up to our standards, but that's sort of been the pattern this season,'' Capers said. "Their long run of the game was nine yards, which is good. But they had seven pass plays of 20 yards or more. That we can't allow.''

Capers, in piloting two expansion teams, said the plan for great NFL teams hasn't changed. Build a defense, find a quarterback. In Carolina, he did it with Kerry Collins and a stingy defense built through the draft and free agency. In Houston, he tried to do it with David Carr and defense, but both weren't up to NFL averages.

He looks at the Packers now and sees a team with a great quarterback, Aaron Rodgers, and what should be a good defense. And he knows it's foolish to expect Rodgers to put up 40 points every week, because sometimes great offenses (see: New England, Super Bowl, 2008) have an off day. He understands the impression fans have: If the Packers are going to stay unbeaten, they're going to have to have Rodgers win shootouts.

"I understand why people would think that,'' Capers said. "We just have to stress communication with the guys, everybody being where they're supposed to be, because when they are, we definitely should make the plays. But we've done it before. Last year, Tramon and Sam covered as well as any two corners in the league. We can get back to that level. I've seen it.''

You'll get an excellent indicator tonight, with rookie Christian Ponder coming to Lambeau Field with all the distractions and noise attendant to that experience for a visiting quarterback. If the Packers struggle holding the Vikings down, you'll know it's going to be pretty tough to keep this undefeated streak alive in the coming weeks.

 

FrankRizzo

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2010
Messages
5,858
Reaction score
771
Location
Dallas
Here's some more:

According to STATS, a company that tracks myriad NFL statistics based on detailed game-tape study, the Packers have suffered a drastic decline in their ability to put heat on quarterbacks from last year.

In 2010, they finished No. 5 in the NFL in pressures percentage, that is, in combined sacks, knockdowns and hurries, relative to passes attempted. Their rate of a sack, hit or hurry once every 4.6 passes was behind only Oakland, the New York Giants, Philadelphia and Detroit in 2010. Halfway through this season, they rank No. 26 with a sack, knockdown or hurry once every 5.8 passes.

Sacks stats tell the same story. They ranked No. 3 in sacks percentage last season; they’re No. 22 this year.
 

Croak

Vincit qui patitur
Moderator
Joined
Aug 15, 2010
Messages
6,478
Reaction score
1,154
Location
New Cumberland, PA
Here's some more:

According to STATS, a company that tracks myriad NFL statistics based on detailed game-tape study, the Packers have suffered a drastic decline in their ability to put heat on quarterbacks from last year.

In 2010, they finished No. 5 in the NFL in pressures percentage, that is, in combined sacks, knockdowns and hurries, relative to passes attempted. Their rate of a sack, hit or hurry once every 4.6 passes was behind only Oakland, the New York Giants, Philadelphia and Detroit in 2010. Halfway through this season, they rank No. 26 with a sack, knockdown or hurry once every 5.8 passes.

Sacks stats tell the same story. They ranked No. 3 in sacks percentage last season; they’re No. 22 this year.

But what do the stats say about their run defense? If I recall, that was the big concern last year.
 

Croak

Vincit qui patitur
Moderator
Joined
Aug 15, 2010
Messages
6,478
Reaction score
1,154
Location
New Cumberland, PA
Woodson said they had a meeting with Capers in the middle of the week and addressed some things. Capers and the coaching staff said it was a two way street. If they wanted a certain type of scheming, they had to step up and make plays and communicate. It seemed to have worked. However, this was only the Vikings. :whistling:
 

Members online

No members online now.

Latest posts

Top