Offense looks to fit Favre

[JbShell]

As I have watched/listened to the preseason it has struck me that this new offensive scheme may fit Favre and Rodgers to a T. I remember back in the days(the 90's) Favre never really played behind a true dominate offensive line. He was a scrambler but scrambled not to gain yards but to gain time to allow things to open up.

Favre also did alot better on the quick strike pass ie 5-15 yards. When Sherman came in he wanted to take the cork off of Favre which in theory would have been the way to go. However Favre was alway better at the short stuff. Holmgren always used the keep it close stuff. That is what the WC offense is alot of **** and dunk power run quick slants to suck up the defense. Then the occasional deep pass.

Watching this preseason I think that Favre will find alot of success.

My biggest worry this off season is teams coming out and scoring on opening drives the D needs to figure out how to clamp down from the start.

 

[JbShell]

no comments??

 

[porky88]

I think both Rodgers and Favre have taken the benefit from McCarthy. McCarthy works very well with QB's and it definately shows. Rodgers looks solid so far and Favre has played much better. I also think it comes down to how you call the game. Last year we gave up on the run early. This year McCarthy is going to stick with it. As long as our defense doesn't give up 2 fast TD's we should be able to do what we need to do on offense. I think our D is capable of being a top 15 unit so it's certianly possible. The running game needs Ahman Green. Gado is no Green and Davenport is a short yardage back in my opinion. Ahman Green might be as important as Brett Favre is to this team.

 

[calicheesehead]

I'd concur. I think this scheme with the youth movement is rejuvinating Brett's love for what he does. It's like he's getting a second wind and not asked to put the whole team on his shoulders. With all the criticism he received this offseason for delaying the retirement issue plus having the 29INTs last year, believe it or not, I think he feels he has something to prove. Watching the 2 games thus far, you see he's more patient because he's waiting for things to open up underneath coverage, not the deep routes.

 

[Cory]

The pass offense is much like Holmgrens in the 90's. Lot of complimentary routes to get key recievers open.

 

[porky88]

The pass offense is much like Holmgrens in the 90's. Lot of complimentary routes to get key recievers open.

I love Holmgrems version of the West Coast. In my opinion it's the best next to Bill Walsh.

Seattle really looked smooth last year and I think they're going to be again this year.

Hopefully the Packers can catch on to McCarthy's version and run it as well as Seattle has with Holmgrems. We don't have the players Seattle had but we have the personel to fit it.

 

[TomAllen]

calicheese said,

Watching the 2 games thus far, you see he's more patient because he's waiting for things to open up underneath coverage, not the deep routes.

You mean more patient than last year Cali when he had less than 2 seconds to get rid of the ball?

 

[Cory]

It's like Tom Clements said...he said Favre could have made less mistakes last year and this team still would have lost and I agree with him. Look at Minnesota or Carolina. Look at Detroit when we played them in GB. We BARELY beat a horrible Lions team with an interim coach at lambeau and we had to go take it to overtime. Favre didn't make the bad mistakes in that game. The team was awful last year. Chalk it up to injuries, poor coaching, and Favre trying to do too much.

This offense will be much more effeciently run than Mike Sherman's offense. I am VERY confident of that statement. You can see already in the first two games how McCarthy plans on getting his key recievers open and spreading the ball around to different players. The emergence of Greg Jennings is certainly going to help. I think this team has the ability to surprise a few people this season if McCarthy can get through to Favre that it isn't his responsiblity alone to win the game and if you ask me...he's getting through so far.

 

[warhawk]

JB, You have actually read my mind. I was starting a new thread on this yesterday and the "ERROR" screen came up and I didn't feel like starting over.

This looks like the true form of West Coast Offense to me.

Set an upbeat tempo, quick passes, mix in the runs, move the chains. I like the tempo because it fits Favre to a "T". He gets them moving and he will have the defensive guys heads spinning. I think he will be making more calls from the line as well.

Kind of a hybred two minute drill concept. Note quite that tempo but definately upbeat. It can wear a defense down.

It might mean some fairly quick three-and-outs but with the depth we have on the "D" line and linebacker I think we can hang in there until BF gets it going. With that being said this whole concept favors us in the 4th quarter.

Much has been said about the run and no doubt they are committed to it but this is not a run first or power run offense that I see. I love it when I see BF complete a couple in a row and then go to the run. The "D" starts guessing and the offense gets the upper hand.

 

[TomAllen]

That's right Warhawk.

IMO, Sherman/Rossley would be run, run, run, or pass, pass, pass..and couldn't mix it up for beans!

It was not the west coast offense they were running. Hell, I don't know what they were running--a modified run and shoot, run and gun..red gun... or what ever the hell they were running with Jeff George when June Jones was in Atlanta. That's where Rossley cut his teeth.

Anyway, it was not good, whatever it was. I hope they do get back to more of a west coast thing.

 

[agopackgo4]

I agree 100% this offense is great for Favre. But not only for Favre, but for the whole packer offense. Look at how it is, you have Favre who is very good at the short quick passes, and not so good at the long ones, we dont have the best recievers in the world(with the acception of Driver who doesnt go deap anyway) and face it even though our O line looked good last week, you know that they are going to struggle this year. It just seems like the right offense at the right time.

 

[porky88]

The offense needs to be more efficient. They need to run the ball well, get rid of the ball early, and not make many mistakes. Running to setup the pass is the way to go in my opinion and if Green stays healthy we should have a pretty decent running game. Better than last year. I look forward to seeing Green these next 2 weeks. I'm not expecting much Monday since it's his 1st action back but hopefully he shows signs of catching on to the scheme.

 

[NDPackerFan]

I haven't seen this offense deliver the ball to the TE's nearly as much as advertised yet. I hope they use those guys between the 20's as well because our TE's with Franks and Lee could prove deadly against opposing LB's. Anyway, this offense is the right one to have at this time because Favre will take a whole lot more 3 step drops and get the ball out.

Oh, and by the way, does Jennings look unreal after he catches the ball? This guy knows what to do with the football once it's in his hands. He could be special.

 

[Cory]

The offense needs to be more efficient. They need to run the ball well, get rid of the ball early, and not make many mistakes. Running to setup the pass is the way to go in my opinion and if Green stays healthy we should have a pretty decent running game. Better than last year. I look forward to seeing Green these next 2 weeks. I'm not expecting much Monday since it's his 1st action back but hopefully he shows signs of catching on to the scheme.

The WCO offense works to use the pass to setup the run which at this point is probably what we need to do. It also replaces some of the pressure on the run game with short quick step passing such as quick slants, short curls, short crosses etc etc everything short and usually with the slot reciever no matter who lines up there. Favre will also have more freedom in the LOS calls this year than in years past. Favre makes some dumb decisions, but that doesn't mean hes a dummy. Give him more freedom at the line and he will make the better decisions on who to get the ball to and that was proven with Holmgren. Take away his decisions at the line and he will force things.

 

[porky88]

The offense needs to be more efficient. They need to run the ball well, get rid of the ball early, and not make many mistakes. Running to setup the pass is the way to go in my opinion and if Green stays healthy we should have a pretty decent running game. Better than last year. I look forward to seeing Green these next 2 weeks. I'm not expecting much Monday since it's his 1st action back but hopefully he shows signs of catching on to the scheme.

The WCO offense works to use the pass to setup the run which at this point is probably what we need to do. It also replaces some of the pressure on the run game with short quick step passing such as quick slants, short curls, short crosses etc etc everything short and usually with the slot reciever no matter who lines up there. Favre will also have more freedom in the LOS calls this year than in years past. Favre makes some dumb decisions, but that doesn't mean hes a dummy. Give him more freedom at the line and he will make the better decisions on who to get the ball to and that was proven with Holmgren. Take away his decisions at the line and he will force things.

Holmgrem's offense used the pass to setup the run, as did Sherman‘s. They're are many variations of the west coast offense. In fact they're really is no true west coast offense. The only one was Walsh. Everyone uses different variations through they're own eyes. McCarthy wants to use the run to setup the pass which would take loads of pressure off of Favre. Part of why Favre struggled at times last year was, the lack of a running game. This is just another variation of the west coast offense. McCarthy’s version.

 

[rob836]

I agree this WCO fits Favre to a T. Bill Walsh all so used the pass as a run play and his WCO work like a machine, generating first down after first down.

 

[Cory]

You may be right, but I didn't see that as his interpretation and he's passed the ball more in preseason thus far than ran the ball. Just because McCarthy wants to depend on the run game(which is smart) doesn't mean he is going to use it to setup the passing game. So far it looks to me like he is counting on the pass game, but forcing the run game in order to keep the defense honest. Something Sherman in his last two years wouldn't do.

 

[porky88]

You may be right, but I didn't see that as his interpretation and he's passed the ball more in preseason thus far than ran the ball. Just because McCarthy wants to depend on the run game(which is smart) doesn't mean he is going to use it to setup the passing game. So far it looks to me like he is counting on the pass game, but forcing the run game in order to keep the defense honest. Something Sherman in his last two years wouldn't do.

Every game a coach will go in with a game plan. McCarthy wants to establish the run first. That is why you are seeing more 1st and 2nd down running plays. He wants to give Favre a 3rd down and short instead of 3rd and long.

In the end though if the running game is not working, he will throw more and if we fall behind early, he will throw more. You have to. You have to do what works. From what I have heard and read, McCarthy wants to establish the run early and close out pounding the ball. Part of the zone blocking scheme is that by the 4th quarter you should have wear down the opposition's defenders where you can run the ball for 4 or 5 yards a carry. That is what Green Bay wants to do this season. Hopefully it works. For that to happen, Ahman Green needs to stay healthy.

 

[Cory]

You may be right, but I didn't see that as his interpretation and he's passed the ball more in preseason thus far than ran the ball. Just because McCarthy wants to depend on the run game(which is smart) doesn't mean he is going to use it to setup the passing game. So far it looks to me like he is counting on the pass game, but forcing the run game in order to keep the defense honest. Something Sherman in his last two years wouldn't do.

Every game a coach will go in with a game plan. McCarthy wants to establish the run first. That is why you are seeing more 1st and 2nd down running plays. He wants to give Favre a 3rd down and short instead of 3rd and long.

In the end though if the running game is not working, he will throw more and if we fall behind early, he will throw more. You have to. You have to do what works. From what I have heard and read, McCarthy wants to establish the run early and close out pounding the ball. Part of the zone blocking scheme is that by the 4th quarter you should have wear down the opposition's defenders where you can run the ball for 4 or 5 yards a carry. That is what Green Bay wants to do this season. Hopefully it works. For that to happen, Ahman Green needs to stay healthy.

I think you are seeing them run more on first and second in order to keep the defense honest and mix it up because he does throw on first and second as well almost equally. Last season against the Lions in the first game we passed the ball on 3rd down 13 consecutive times. This is before the injuries to davenport and Green. Obviously MM is more committed to the run, but more than anything he is looking to move the chains. So far our passing game has been very effective for our top two QBs and it's because of the shorter route running. I think a point can be made for both arguments as I see MM taking the big risky throws out of Favres hands and giving him more options at the line. At least right now we are going to have to count on the pass game to open up the run as our team is still learning how to run the ball in this new blocking scheme.

 

[PackinSteel]

This intelligent, peacful discussion of football has gone on long enough! :wink:

 

[Cory]

This intelligent, peacful discussion of football has gone on long enough! :wink:

It's all Porky's fault for bringing good valid points to a sincere discussion. Man I hate it when people do that!! lol

 

[calicheesehead]

calicheese said,

Watching the 2 games thus far, you see he's more patient because he's waiting for things to open up underneath coverage, not the deep routes.

You mean more patient than last year Cali when he had less than 2 seconds to get rid of the ball?

It doesn't take as long for the short routes to get open than the deeper ones. But yes I suppose I was being a bit hypocritical with my other post! Good call TA.

 

[warhawk]

I think that while MM is committed to the run he is being smart here in not forcing it with the young guys he has on the line. It would be a mistake to force a run style offense when the lineman aren't yet up to the task.

His best offensive weapon is BF and it looks like MM is going with what will be most effective at this time. As the line comes together and starts to show they can get it done the running game will more than likely see more emphasis than what we may see early on.