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Offense(ive) Thought

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by 4zone, Sep 20, 2016.

  1. 4zone

    4zone Cheesehead

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    Everyone is talking about a lot of things regarding the Packer offense. But one things keeps bugging me. The hurry up offense.

    It's one thing to try to tire out a defense and create mismatches. But there is another, less desirable consequence, that occurs when it doesn't work as planned. Three and out's eats up less time and gives the defense less time to rest. The way our offense has been playing lately, that's putting a lot of pressure on the defense.

    Also, the first two games were road games. Communicating the play to all 11 players is much harder with a stadium at max volume. The odds are 1 or 2 guys are going to miss the call and that's enough to screw up the play. It seems to me it would make more sense to huddle up and use less hurry up. Set the tone, get in sync then expand from there as situations permit. It lessens the odds of introducing mistakes due ot miscommunications and over taxing players.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. metallicblaze

    metallicblaze Cheesehead

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    The main point of hurry up offense is to utilize mismatches and prevent the D from switching in effectively. All that goes out the window when the offense is sputtering like it is now.

    One thing I hate is the burning of unnecessary time outs.
     
  3. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    I'll disagree because I wouldn't call what the Packers do a hurry up offense.

    They don't hurry to snap the ball. They hurry to the line to prevent a substitution, but then spend most of the play clock calling out the play, reading the defense, calling audibles, etc.

    They did have some miscommunication in week 1, but no players or coaches have said anything about week 2.

    Time of possession was close to enough Sunday (29:42 for the Packers) and the Packers would have had more than the Vikings simply by not turning it over twice and having one more play in bounds.
     
  4. gopkrs

    gopkrs Cheesehead

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    Don't forget that while at the line of scrimmage for so long...the defense is reading us too.
     
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  5. Viper556

    Viper556 Cheesehead

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    Exactly. If anything their play calling seems too complicated and takes way too long. Too many time outs or near delay of game penalties because they take so long.
     
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  6. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I would prefer the Packers offense to huddle up before every snap, communicate the call and run the play. Especially on the road when it's tougher to make audibles at the line of scrimmage.
     
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  7. Poppa San

    Poppa San SB I trophy First of four Staff Member Moderator

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    TJ Lang may disagree with the last part. It is cited elsewhere in this forum.
     
  8. Jmurray

    Jmurray Cheesehead

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    Seems logical. We have to start converting 3rd downs - no offense can get in rhythm going 3 and out. we need to get the ball out of Rogers hands much quicker.
     
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  9. Twiddlemylobes

    Twiddlemylobes Fat Tuesday Orleans

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    We can't even start a new quarter without the clock expiring and drawing a delay of game so we've got some fundamentals to perfect
    I'd like to see more short, quick slants to the slot receiver (the ones Donald Driver was famous for) and short dump passes to the RB's and TE to counter and slow an over aggressive pass rush, Especially early in the game.
    Achieving continuity with shorter, high percentage throws and moving the chains to control the clock would be refreshing at this point.
     
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  10. Packerlifer

    Packerlifer Cheesehead

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  11. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    I didn't see them run much of a hurry up offense against Minnesota. If Rodgers is not playing at his peak, we've got two workhorses at RB - one of whom needs to run more to lose weight, and a new LG that is better at run blocking than pass protection....I would start making GB a run-dominant offense. We came out that way in the preseason to good results, and then went back to putting all the pressure on Rodgers.
     
  12. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    I rewatched the game tonight and you are correct, while I don't have stats, there were very few times where the Packers were playing any hurry up offense. While I agree that the way the Packer offense is executing at this time, the hurry up has the potential to make things worse, but it could also have the opposite effect. If the offense can run some quick successful plays, it may finally put a defense like Detroit's in scramble mode, where they may be more likely to make mistakes. The offense needs a confidence booster right now to get on track and marching quickly down the field for a TD could go a long way to build that confidence.
     
  13. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    The Packers currently are ninth in the league in third down conversion rate at 48.1%. I agree three and outs are holding back the offense though.
     
  14. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    While at the game, I figured that McCarthy would actually throw in the hurry-up offense to get the Packers in rhythm. Vikings fans around me were thinking the same thing, and we truly fraught with fear that McCarthy would turn the switch and turn Rodgers loose. Not so.

    I remember in 1997 when Favre and the offense were struggling to regain their SB form. We were playing the Patriots, possibly in prime time. Things just weren't clicking until Holmgren put Favre into a no-huddle offense. Game over. We steamrolled New England and made a strong push to the playoffs. I just looked it up....pretty similar 1-1 start with unimpressive wins until this game:
    upload_2016-9-22_8-43-54.png
     
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  15. Half Empty

    Half Empty Cheesehead

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    I have no idea what happened back then, but you certainly don't have to go to the Favre/Holmgren era. I'm sure you can find specific examples of Rodgers/McCarthy much more recently. I don't think anyone would argue that "turning Rodgers loose" has often produced a bunch of points. However, as your inventment advisor says, past performance is no guarantee of future success.
     
  16. Curly Calhoun

    Curly Calhoun Cheesehead

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    I think the hurry-up has its place, but I'm not a fan of the Chip Kelly approach of running it for the entire game.

    The real fix for the offense? They just need to execute better, no matter what offense they're running.
     
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  17. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    True. The point is that sometimes mixing it up, changing from whatever you are doing to another strategy, can get a team into rhythm and executing better.
     
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  18. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    I mentioned it yesterday, I'm totally hoping the Packer offense comes out in the no huddle on Sunday. Take advantage of playing at home, against as weak of a defense as we have played this season. This offense has been lacking an identity and confidence for a long time now, let it rip! *Looks to Stat man Captain* What are the offensive stats for yards and points scored when running from the no huddle over the last 5 years? *watches Captain scurry off with the sandwich I made him*

    while this is true, it still makes it very difficult for the defense to substitute or fully communicate with each other on adjustments for the next play, they don't know exactly when AR may decide to snap it. Remember, AR is seeing how the defense is lining up and making the play call based on that, a quick shift of a back, TE or WR isn't any different information for the defense in that situation then it is after a huddle.
     
  19. PackAttack12

    PackAttack12 Cheesehead

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    Not to mention it draws the secondary closer to the line of scrimmage and opens up the possibility for more downfield plays.
     
  20. Twiddlemylobes

    Twiddlemylobes Fat Tuesday Orleans

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    Yes. My boss also made it obvious this morning that he subscribes to the "what have you done for me lately" theme
     
  21. Dirty Sanchez

    Dirty Sanchez Cheesehead

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    I somewhat agree 4zone.
    But when we run it well I don't think there is another team that does it better. A little rust, maybe. But it has worked well for us in the past. I would like them to stick with it, but alas, I am but a lowly salesman and probably will never be a head coach. Now.............I said probably, so don't count me out yet as I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!

    DS
     
  22. RRyder

    RRyder Cheesehead

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    Can people stop confusing the no huddle offense with a hurry up offense first before people complain about it?

    There's a huge difference
     
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  23. 4zone

    4zone Cheesehead

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    Agree. I guess what they are running mostly is no huddle vs hurry up but while running the no-huddle, it leaves the opportunity open for hurry up on any play.

    Having said that, it seems odd to me that in the no-huddle, they don't include an unpredictable pattern of snap timing. Go one play early, one play later and such. Make the other team guess more and give them less time to engage their own chess game.

    It does not seem to me that the cerebral part of the game is lacking in GB. NE is clearly in a different league than we are in this regard. I understand that coaches are different and they each bring their own qualities to the table and each needs to go with their strengths. However, they also need to develop their areas of weakness as well.

    I am seeing an underlying issue here, not just in the no huddle aspect, but in a far more fundamental, global aspect. Going back to the year after we beat NE in the Super Bowl with Brett, I have seen a nasty tendency that infects teams. Entitlement For some reason, teams who win, and are favored to win again seem to play the following year as if they are entitled to win, just because they are 'good'. They forget that 'hunger' that drove them to to win in the first place. In regards to that win over NE, it came after several years of overcoming hurdles that had been in GB's way for years. Dallas and SF.

    Once again after we won with AR at the helm, it seemed as if it was expected we would win again, simply because we had a talented team. It's the 'hunger' the 'underdog' mentality that is missing from this team and until it gets it back, it will simply continue to be what it has been the past several years, good, but not good enough. THIS is the issue that must first and foremost be addressed. Until it is, no 'fix' will get us where we wish to go. It will only get us part way, then we fall to another team who has the 'hunger' and refuses to lose.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2016
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  24. Twiddlemylobes

    Twiddlemylobes Fat Tuesday Orleans

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    IF we make the playoffs. I think we'll be hungry after two high level OT losses In consecutive years. Neither of which, btw, was the fault of our Offense.
     
  25. RRyder

    RRyder Cheesehead

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    Considering the offense played bad in both those games that's quite a statement
     
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