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North Korea

Discussion in 'The Atrium' started by ivo610, Mar 19, 2013.

  1. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

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    I don't mind the time investment if it means that I get the current edition of a text that will be required for 3 courses that I will be taking, including this one. Saved me nearly $100. Plus I'm not a thief so no, I wouldn't even consider swiping it from the bookstore. And without delving too far into my personal finances lets just say that it has to happen this way.
     
  2. Poppa San

    Poppa San SB I trophy First of four Staff Member Moderator

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    So scanning in a (presumably) copyrighted text is not theft in your world? I would bet that over half your music is also "freely acquired" along with the "shared " movies in your video collection. I also realize books are overpriced. Just another in a long line of scams perpetrated upon the American public (off soapbox.) I understand the finances of college. Back in the day I had to quit when I ran out of $. No need to answer (plead the 5th) I will speak of this no more.
     
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  3. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

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    hahaha, no worries. And no it is not in my mind because I believe that gating knowledge by any means, none the less monetarily, is both criminally wrong and morally reprehensible. I actually don't have any sort of music collection to speak of. All of the music I listen to is generally though something like Pandora/Slacker Radio/8tracks.com or the radio in my car. Likewise I have some DVD's that I've purchased through the years, but for the most part I watch stuff through Netflix and that's about it.
     
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  4. Passepartout

    Passepartout August Preseason!

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    Well North Korea is a dangerous country. The military though corrupt is one of the best trained in the world. With 1M standing strong. The leader the son of the late dictator Kim Jung Il or Un, if you thought the father was bad, the son makes the father look like a cakewalk. The son is a late twenties person who seems to be more dangerous than his father!
     
  5. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    All true, but what is your recommendation? They probably are not a direct threat to America. Is it worth the effort to take them out for the sake of South Korea and Japan? If so, do you recommend using nukes, ground forces, or air power only? How about Seal Team 6 or whatever cutting off the head of the snake? Would you hit them preemptively? Or wait for them to do something?
     
  6. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    ^ I would wait, let THEM be the ones to go down in history as throwing the first punch.

    So what if N korea has 1,000,000 troops? Who cares? And they ARE NOT some of the worlds most "highly trained" troops.....that statement is false. The South Korean "ROCK" Marines are some bad dudes, but that is a small elite unit from the south.

    They have and are using tanks from the 1960's, our M1A1 Abrams tanks would chew those up as target practice. Their air force is limited at best and is outdated as well. Their so-called navy is a joke and small sized. They would have enough fuel for military vehicles to last them all of 3 days if there was a ground offensive mounted (foxnews.com)........they are a joke and a bunch of blow-hards.

    N.Korea is still one of those countries that allows it's leader to be ousted by the military, hence the reason he is trying to flex his tiny muscles to the world and the USA, to show HIS own military he is not weak so they wont kick his butt out of power. He is young (25) and a fool. He needs to be shown and not just told to calm down. He will learn a lesson the hard way if he does toss out the first punch. He will be the laughing stock of the world.
     
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  7. Jordyruns

    Jordyruns Cheesehead

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    With North Korea threatening to launch missiles at the US we should make sure to warn the middle of the ocean that they will soon be getting hit. (line stolen from weekend update)
     
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  8. Poppa San

    Poppa San SB I trophy First of four Staff Member Moderator

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    Should scare the crap out of the little tyrant. Next time they do one of their military on display parades, do a flyover with a few B-2's at about 1000 feet. In and out before they know they are there. Too bad they couldn't bust a few windows with a sonic boom along the way.
     
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  9. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

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    That would probably be construed as an act of war for violating their airspace.
     
  10. Poppa San

    Poppa San SB I trophy First of four Staff Member Moderator

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    And?
     
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  11. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

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    Well that would be a sure fire way to start a war that wont be happening otherwise.
     
  12. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Can people SERIOUSLY want to provoke this little prick THAT much they want something to happen ? The Chinese themselves are stepping back from this idiot, and in war people get killed, on BOTH sides.
     
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  13. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    Ummm.....who is provoking who? He threatens a nuke war, aims missles at us, gathers troops at the border, positions missles on the coast........he is poking the big dog with a stick, soon that dog will break free of it's cage and chew up the little boy who teases the big dog. I do not feel sorry for him or his troops, he can melt off the face of this earth and I doubt any sane person would lose sleep over it.
     
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  14. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I take your point Osh, but the point I`m trying to make is he is a dangerous little boy who wont give a **** about pressing the button because he`ll be in a bunker underground while the poor bastards above ground will be vapourized. I for one certainly hope the Chinese TALK some sense into him before this gets too out of control. America could squash him like a bug in reality, but nobody seriously wants this to go too far bud.
     
  15. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    He has not perfected the capabilities to make a warhead small enough to fit upon a short to medium range missile to attack any US bases or our allies with nukes. He has basically what the Iraqi army had with their super ineffective scud missiles. His just has a different name. He would be just shooting bottle rockets at us and we have missile defense technology to counter any offensive move he makes. I'm not really worried about him, he is spouting off to "look" tough to his own military to keep from getting his young butt ousted out of power. The two naval ships we have parked off his coast have a total of 182 tomahawk cruise missiles on board between the two of them, enough to wipe him clean off the map........he knows this, he just has a small penis and is pissed off about it, and wants to take it out on us.......he just needs a good skilled hooker and he will calm down. lol
     
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  16. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    Bill, Oshkosh, you guys both have some elements of being right, Oshkosh more so, I think. Of course, nobody wants war on the Korean peninsula again. Of course people get killed on both sides in war - although it would be a helluva lot more of the army of North Korea than the South, and very very few of ours unless they got extremely lucky with those unguided missiles. However, Bill, don't you see, like with Hitler before WWII, the way to PREVENT war is not to coddle this guy (not kid - he's 30 years old) and the hard core military leaders pulling his strings, but to make sure he knows the consequences if he goes too far. And make no mistake about it, he himself and his generals would NOT be safe - no more than Saddam or Bin Laden were safe. Obviously, even in the event of a North Korean nuclear strike at the South or Japan, we aren't going to target the North Korean population that's why OUR nukes are in OUR hands instead of handed over to the ROK army. That million man army, however, would be fair game and undoubtedly some of their civilian population would be collateral damage - which is why somebody on THEIR side with an ounce of sanity should take out the young dictator preemptively, and liberals, do-gooders, and molly-coddlers on OUR side should be aiming their words at the enemy, not at the cooler heads on OUR side. You got that, Bill?
     
  17. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    Seal Team 6, new mission objective, snipers up !!!!
     
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  18. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Nobody is aiming words at anybody here Texas, and if that's the way you see this I'm sorry. All I'm saying is America could end this in a heartbeat, I know it, you know it, Osh knows it, hell, every man and his dog knows it, even the Chinese know it too. All I'm trying to say is, you've warned him, and I don't think repeatedly warnings work with this guy. I agree it may be prudent to DEAL with him, but not to raise to his posturing and look like the aggressors. And YES Texas I GET IT thanks !
     
  19. Poppa San

    Poppa San SB I trophy First of four Staff Member Moderator

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    In his little world he is at war. What would he do, lob a few missiles at Seoul and Tokyo? For an American flyover? All the propaganda in the world will not convince his generals that the American bombers were in and out without being stopped. Sometimes to shut up a braggart, you need to flex some muscle. You do that in the hope you then don't have to use it.
     
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  20. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    Bill, I guess we have that language barrier again hahaha. What I meant is that you and others ...... I guess I won't call you a leftist ...... others who preach the soft reasoning nicey nice approach should not be aiming their words at America. They should be preaching to the wackos in North Korea - or maybe the likeminded but more pragmatic Communists in China. THEY are the evildoers; THEY are the murderers of innocents; THEY are the instigators of war. So why not just sit back in confidence that America will do the most civilized and humane thing possible to protect the lives of the most innocents - as we always do, and save your ...... advice for the bad guys. Sometimes, of course, war and killing bad guys IS the most civilized and humane way to protect the lives of the innocent.
     
  21. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    If the most worthy people on the face of the earth - American football fans - are deprived of a flyover hahahaha, why should Kim and the North Koreans get that expensive treat?
     
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  22. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

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    I'm really sort of ambivalent at this point with this conversation. Mostly apathetic, but at the same point I enjoy well formed and intelligent banter immensely. I think the conversation as well has the "escalating" situation in N. Korea has moved past the following quoted post. I still would like to say a few things on this post though. [All quotes are truncated for ease of reading. Feel free to use the links if you are interested in reviewing the full comments.]


    Now a refresher of what I said:
    Just because I believe that the concept of 'profound immorality to the point of spiritual damnation' to be a human contrived concept does not mean that I'm advocating for people to go out and commit acts of a morally/ ethically questionable nature. And even what falls under the preview of those concepts changes both over time and from culture to culture. If you'd like to start robbing banks, go for it, provided you can square that away with your conscience. That however will not absolve you from the social and cultural consequences imposed for conducting that action.

    Also the N. American continent was actually a Theater of War (link) during WW2, the Nazis attempted a number of attacks on US infrastructure as well as formed spy rings and carried out naval actions in the Atlantic.

    While I generally think that one good straw-manning deserves one in kind, I’ve no desire to partake in one this time.
     
  23. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    Honestly, that was a little bit hard to understand. I take it that you stand by your assertion that the concept of good and evil is invented/manmade - which I characterized as "interesting". I really don't think calling it "interesting" is all that harsh or judgmental considering some of the things I could have called it. I will also call your idea of good and evil "out of the mainstream of American/Judeo-Christian/western civilization thought", but then we have freedom of religion, speech, and most of all, thought in this country.

    I also stand by what I said - that without the absolutes that go with an established moral code, there is 1. no framework civil and civilized society and 2. no reason why individuals should conform to any standard of behavior - if, after all, they can just invent their own concept of good and evil. Based on what you said, who is to say one person's or one nation's or one culture's "invention" is any better than anybody else's - Hitler's, Saddam's, Jeffrey Dahmer's, Kim Un's, etc.?

    I really don't follow your train of thought about Nazi tactics in North America and ridiculing American "infallibility". Are you claiming some misguided idea of moral equivalence of us to them, or what? We, as a nation, may not be infallible, but we damn sure are better, and the American Way is better that the tyranny, depravity, and "invented evil" put forth by the various enemies we have in the world.

    Your statement "That however will not absolve you from the social and cultural consequences imposed for conducting that action." makes it seem like you think the only reason not to commit what society sees as sins or crimes is getting caught and punished ...... uh, OK, I guess you have a right to that "interesting" point of view hahaha ..... but without the "invented" idea that freedom is "good" in this country, you might face some serious "consequences" for expressing such an "interesting" point of view hahaha.

    The elephant in the room here is religion - Christian from my perspective. This is America, so you can believe whatever you want to believe - or nothing at all if you prefer, but THAT is the basis of morality - of the concept of good and evil which you see as "invented". For most of us, it was "invented" by the writers/Inspirer of the Bible, and thanks to the concept of American military "goodness" defeating Nazi/Communist/fundamentalist Islamic "evil", YOU have the right to be a disbeliever and to express it.
     
  24. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

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    There was no elephant in the room, and I surely was not attacking religion as you imply. I had no issue with your calling my views "interesting". As I stated in my post I took issue with your interpretation that I was somehow advocating the complete disillusionment of cultural and societal norms. Hence the "straw-manning" comment. The point I was making about Nazis and the US is that you made an assertion in the post of yours that I linked to stating that: "... technically those poor unfortunate Nazis that we victimized didn't actually attack US, as I recall". I was refuting that assertion since they did indeed attack the US.

    I'm sorry that you've not exposed yourself to points of views and philosophies other than that which you prescribe to. I assure you that nothing I've said is ground braking in the least. I really can't be expected to re-explain myself after every post. Nor was what I said all that confusing if you'd review the previous posts I linked to, i.e. establishing a continuous dialog. Your confusion seems based on your not having done that. Though at this point it probably would have been prudent to review the highlights of the whole of our interaction to refresh your memory.

    Really all you are doing is specifically "replying" to whatever I write without giving credence to what we've said previous to the most recent post. There is quite honestly no point in continuing to talk to you.
     
  25. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

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    I'd be OK with a sniper mission to take him out if he keeps his saber rattling to a point where there actually is imminent danger to US citizens/ allies. Still the news I hear from my fiends stationed in SK is that everything is business as usual. (yes; we have a way to talk while retaining opsec, and obviously I'm not asking for specifics). Which screens volumes to me about how serious the US actually takes N. Korea at this point. Plus this is not the first time that the US media has over blown a threat, dare I say "propagandized" one.

    All of this still smacks of bluster and ego-stroking. I also agree that it probably has something to do with Jong-Un needing to show that he has the "stones" to be 'The Great Leader'. I hold out hope that this will ultimately end up being just another chapter in the narrative of N. Korea reminding us all that they still exist and don't like our style. Unless Jung-Un tips his hand I don't think it is in the US's best interest to destabilize the region at the moment.
     

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