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North Korea

Discussion in 'The Atrium' started by ivo610, Mar 19, 2013.

  1. metallicblaze

    metallicblaze Cheesehead

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    Wish they would convert to KPop. :)
     
  2. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

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    Works for me.
     
  3. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    You guys are posting political stuff in a sports forum? Shame on ya hahaha. Two things I want to comment on which seem to me to be symptomatic of people soaking up wrongheadedness from the damned leftist anti-American mainstream media: 1. Somebody on page one I think it was, implied that America shouldn't try to influence "other sovereign nations" - that's why we have so enemies. I would like to think the guy saying that is just very naive and not a true believer in the sick leftist point of view. I say leftist, but nowadays, the damn Ron Paul followers spout the same anti-American non-interventionist crap. This is a Good versus Evil world. Whether you are talking about North Korea or Cuba - the remnants of the Cold War where we basically saved the world from Communism or the current conflict to prevent a new dark age of muslim fundamentalism, WE - AMERICA - and OUR domination is the main if not only force for preserving freedom, civilized behavior, and high standard of living. The Obama-esque leftists and the Paulist fools have formed a de facto unholy alliance against America maintaining our power and the initiative to exert it for our self-interest - which basically is synonymous with the interest of good in general. 2. Somebody on the previous page actually blamed Israel or spouted some kind of sick idea of moral equivalence to their/our muslim enemies in the middle east. Israel is an island of freedom, democracy, and civility surrounded by barbaric enemies dedicated to annihilating them and to the extent of their ability, destroying us also. As I said, Good versus Evil - and the evil is not our enemy because I say or the American government says so or Israel says so. They are the enemy because they themselves declare themselves to be our enemy - to which I say, fine, bring it on! "We'll put a boot in your ***, Courtesy of the Red, White, and Blue" - thank you Toby Keith. As for the subject of the thread, Communist North Korea, yeah, they wouldn't even make a good size fly-speck on our windshield. We do, however, need to be a little bit careful not to have the Chicoms come in on the side of the North Koreans as they did 60 or so years ago. Oh yeah, we could cut that 1.3 billion population of China down to a few hundred million with relative ease and/or kick their *** in whatever kind of war it turned out to be, but there are a lot of reasons not to let a war with China happen also.
     
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  4. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

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    I hope this is some sort of satire, but I tend to interpret things literally so I'm taking this as you being serious.
    Paragraphs my friend, paragraphs. Primarily; no one has been talking politics in this thread until you chimed in, and I've reported your comment both for that and the use of the racial slur. All we were doing was opining about how much of a threat we perceive N. Korea to be.

    I am the guy who "implied that America shouldn't try to influence 'other sovereign nations'", actually I said that pretty plainly. I wasn't ambiguous about that at all. Other than that, I'm not going to give this post the time of day because your post added nothing to the conversation except to serve as troll-bait. (i.e. you were hoping to spark someone's ire).

    Spout all the propaganda and and pro-government crap all you want, that wont change the real facts. If you choose to reply back I'd ask first that you realize that you're speaking to a combat vet of both OIF and OEF, so I have a pretty dang good idea of what I'm talking about. I'm not anti-American, I'm anti-government. The two are mutually exclusive.
     
  5. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    hahahaha Well, I guess I have to apologize - for not using paragraphs. I assure you, the only satire was about the perceived unwelcomeness of political discussion. I thoroughly enjoy it, but I respect the fact that others may not so much, but you spout non-interventionist crap, and some other naive fool can bad mouth our ally Israel, the ONLY civilized free and democratic nation in it's region, and that's somehow NOT politics? And where in the hell do you see a racial slur? The use of "Obama-esque"? Come on! That's just laughable.

    I will also say, I respect the fact that you served in Iraq and Afghanistan in terms of courage and patriotism. I'm sure you are well-versed in military skills and small unit tactics. You undoubtedly also have some first-hand knowledge of the people and culture from those places. Vietnam was my war, but I don't claim that qualifies me as an expert on international affairs either. Viewing recent history in realistic terms, however, makes it painfully obvious that you are sadly misguided in your political/strategic comments disrespecting America as meddling in the affairs of "sovereign nations". What kind of a world do you think this would be without America defeating Nazism (would you call that meddling with the sovereign Germans and Japs?), defeating the scourge of worldwide Communism (I guess you think we tread on the sovereignty of about half the world there?), and now the sinister freedom destroying plague which is muslim fundamentalism? The Eurowimps sure aren't going to hold back the tide of evil in the world. Who else would if not us?

    You say you are not anti-American, merely anti-government? Well, I guess that rules out your being an Obama-esque leftist - deliberately trying to drag down America and our dominant position in the world. However, your words sound disgustingly similar to the crap put forth by Ron Paul, who sucks in good Americans with his fiscal conservatism and opposition to government interference in our lives, and then proceeds to advocate exactly the same as the sinister leftists who dragged their feet every step of the way in defeating Communism and who stupidly perceive our enemies as somehow morally equivalent to us. Is that your view? You with your supposed first hand knowledge of the Taliban and muslim culture in general? Do you think North Korea is morally equivalent to us also? Our enemies are our enemies because THEY set themselves up as our enemies - evil setting itself up as the enemy of good in the world - or do you somehow not see it that way?

    People like you are what it's all about these days in the realm of politics in this country. You seem like a good person - military veteran, Packer fan, etc., but you seem to have been completely taken in - as have a lot of others, based on the last election - by the rotten anti-American mainstream media in this country. Wake up and look around you. We live in by far the greatest country in the world - the freest, the richest, and the most altruistic (I hope you are not so far gone as to not believe that). Our enemies would like nothing better than to end that - don't take my word for it, read/listen to what they themselves have to say.
     
  6. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

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    First I'd like to start by stating that you're my respect also, for serving. I feel that I should apologize. In my haste to be concise I ended up misrepresenting myself a bit. You also did not need to specifically apologize for not using paragraphs, I was just asking for you to use them as it makes reading large portions of text effortless. My assertion about politics was more due to my knowledge of the mods not liking political posts all to much, though they seem to allow discussion as long as it doesn't venture into the stereotypical slinging of rhetoric and talking points - that was the only distinction I was trying to make. (I made it poorly originally.)

    As for the racial slur I noted, I interpreted "Chicoms" as one since it was being used to describe a specific ethnic group in a derogatory manner; however, a mod messaged me over it stated that they could not find it listed on the wiki of 'officially recognized slurs' so they were unsure why the complaint was made. I personally was unaware how loose the rules were around here with that sort of thing here at packerforum.com. Personally I'm more accustomed to the Military's hard line stance, as well as society's stringent view on the subject. Flabbergasted though I was to be confronted with such a statement, I withdrew my complaint over the word choice because I didn't want to make a mountain out of a mole hill nor was the term personally offensive.

    I actually never stated that I felt my prior service made me an expert in international relations. Granted I didn't clearly state what qualification I was deriving from my experiences as a soldier and therefore left it up to your inference. Though I would have more so expected questions for clarification directed my way instead of a paragraphs chalked full of conjecture. All I was attempting to claim from that experience was perspective, to be able to perceive issues from outside of the standard perception most people are locked into, if only because of their willful ignorance.

    To answer your question about America fighting Nazism and the Japanese in WW2: No I would not call that interfering since we were attacked first. There is a huge distinction between acting out of self defense and going out looking for a fight whilst telling other people how things are going to be because that is what services our interests the best. As such I'd contend that this example is not even relevant to the point you are attempting to make. To be clear as well, I would term "self defense" not only specifically acting in reaction to being attacked first; also that it does not extend to actions where we may have been attacked first, but were on foreign soil when it happened - in essence somewhere that we shouldn't have been, looking for a fight. To that end; yes, I would say that the ideological war that we entered into a scant few years after WW2 was entirely unnecessary.

    Yes I do say that I am anti-government. That not only rules out me being an "Obama-esque leftist" but also a 'Romney-esque rightist', or any other sort of ridiculous political generalizations surface thinkers use to group and classify people/ opinions as a way of dismissing ideas off-handedly. If anything I'm a Libertarian, but even that is a stretch. As for a moral judgement of N. Korea I have none. I've never met someone from there, I've never been to the country, I have no context to make any sort of judgement like that about an entire group of people. Which is one of the hand full of reasons why I advocate a tolerant stance toward the country.

    As for your continued contention about my somehow being 'enthralled and brain-washed by the liberal-leftist media' I'd just like to establish that I don't subscribe to main stream media sources, I don't even have a cable subscription so I don't watch that faux-new garbage networks try to pander as "news". Actually I think the national media as a whole has become nothing more than a big propaganda machine, but that's a subject for another time.

    Yes; I apparently do see the world through different eyes. The whole perception of "good" and "evil" is invented, it is not something intrinsic to our character as a species. That's so preposterous that you'd even try and use a contention dismissing any potential culpability or involvement of the United States in the fostering of it's own enemies; apparently we are infallible as a country according to you.

    To your last paragraph; I really don't think that the seven prior posts I've made in this thread, a fair number of them off-topic even, is enough to make any sort of judgement about my opinions. Especially since I have barely established them here in this thread for your review. I would, again, expect questions asking for clarification bare of rhetoric, conjecture, and political bias were you actually interested in having a conversation on this subject. Instead you, twice now, have established that you are essentially a surface thinker who can only regurgitate whatever jargon filled propaganda the "conservative" media outlets bombard you with bombastically. If you're not willing to drop the BS I see no reason to talk to you further on this subject. I am not the one who has been "taken in" sir; you may want to re-evaluate that.

    I agree that we do live in a great country, I've never said the opposite. I do however feel that the whole establishment of this country has been perverted over the past 150 - 100 years to the point where it no longer resembles the country is was designed to be.

    *edit* removed last sentence after receiving 1st "like". I just didn't like the sentence and I couldn't think of a way to strengthen the point, so I removed it.
     
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  7. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Sorry to interject here Texas, and hopefully we have settled our previous differences, but as one of those "Eurowimps" I think you will find WE were fighting the Nazi threat in 1939, not 1941 and I found your remark a little offensive. I`m happy and proud to say I have several American friends both on here and elsewhere so I don`t get involved in America bashing, but the Eurowimp remark was out of order. Sorry but that's my opinion.
     
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  8. realcaliforniacheese

    realcaliforniacheese A-Rods Boss

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    LTF, you need to jump in here and close this thread before I say some things that are really going to piss off a couple of these posters.
     
  9. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

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    Or; you could practice self control and not take part in a mostly dead conversation. Just a thought.
     
  10. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Either stop the bashing, or it will be locked
     
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  11. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

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    Honestly at this point I'd vote to lock the thread as well. I mean if people are going to post about threatening to post, premeditated, inflammatory posts. As well to state that they need a mod to block the posting privileges of every user to ever be on this forum for this specific post to ensure that they don't follow through on the threat. I guess they are trying to imply that they are unstable and cannot control themselves...

    Or maybe it was in an effort to defray any amount of personal responsibility for their own actions were they to post again, which is just silly.

    I'd say the most prudent course would be to just remove the temptation all together.
     
  12. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    It`s just a thought, but maybe all the possible sabre rattling is fine but....... War is real and people get killed or seriously injured on both sides. I`m just saying. :tup:
    Lets just hope that China can talk some sense into the idiot before he does something stupid.
     
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  13. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    NorthwestCheese, I appreciate your long response. I will get back to you with a full decent reply soon. "Chicoms" refers to Chinese Communists - as you probably remember, China is still officially "Red China" even though they have kinda gone "Communist light" in recent decades.

    Bill, good to see a flourish of British pride from probably our greatest ally. When I refer to Eurowimps, it would be convenient to say that I mean countries using the Euro. Actually, however, I am expressing my long time distaste for the notoriously cowardly and ungrateful French, along with the similar mindsets of Italians, Spanish, etc. and the stunning turnaround of the Germans from bully boy of the western world to a bunch of effeminate peaceniks hahaha. The Brits have made their bones in my lifetime in the Falklands as well as both Gulf Wars and Afghanistan.

    I respect anybody expressing strong political and social opinions - you two included, even though I may disagree with a lot from you. The only ones I would bash are whiners who would shut down free and interesting speech.
     
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  14. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    Northwest, you certainly have an interesting take on good and evil. I suppose if you start with that assumption - it's all invented, yeah then everything falls into place nothing is absolute. No country's values or deeds are any better or any worse than any others. Freedom is no less evil than tyranny. Murder, rape, pretty much any sin/crime you can name are nothing more than invented evils - the perpetrator's concept that what he does is just fine is just as valid as somebody else's that he did something ...... evil? That's a very convenient line of thinking. It can justify all kinds of stuff - like maybe Ron Paul - type non-interventionist policies - perish the thought that WE - America - are better than any of those countries perpetrating INVENTED evils on their own people or plotting genocide or whatever.

    You seemed to "excuse" our participation against the Nazis and Japanese in WWII, but wait, what if we are merely inventing the idea that they were evil for attacking us hahaha? For that matter, technically those poor unfortunate Nazis that we victimized didn't actually attack US, as I recall.

    It's so convenient to think like that - good and evil are merely invented. I think I will adopt that - and solve all my financial problems by robbing a bank or something - it ain't REALLY evil because evil ain't real - just invented.

    You oughta go and have a chat with the young Supreme Leader. He probably would like your thinking so much that he would put you on the same pedestal as Dennis Rodman.

    Seriously, do you really not see America and our way of life as superior to that of those in the world who have proclaimed themselves our enemies? The Nazis, the Soviet Communists, the Muslim fundamentalists, the loon running North Korea? I say again, read what they have said and done, and consider that point.

    edited because I forgot paragraphs again hahaha
     
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  15. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

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    LTF, I recant my last post. And I'd like to preserve the opportunity to continue this conversation with Tex. I do though need a few days to reply as I'm currently in the middle of scanning my History 116 text into my computer. I borrowed the book from a classmate and the text is about 1000 pages so I'll need a few days to complete this project.

    Succinctly though, I loved the post. I don't really agree with the simplicity to which you interpreted the "good" and "evil" stuff. I will expand on that a bit more so next time.
     
  16. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    I'm personally tired of all the crap talking N korea is doing, either put up or shut up. They have no clue as to what they would be getting themselves into with a war with the USA. I highly doubt we would even have the need for a ground based offensive. Our air power and Naval ships and long ranged cruise missles would take care of that stoneage half witted country.......it would be more or less like our guys playing a real life style video game, sit behind a screen and control missles, bombs, and predator drones.......in a way, I wish they would test us instead of just yapping off idle threats.
     
  17. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    Oshkosh, I tend to agree with you, however, the one doing the talkin' and the many doin' the dyin' on their side wouldn't be quite the same. We maybe should do all we can to cut the head off the snake before taking out the whole snake.
     
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  18. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    hahaha....who are you ? And what have you done with the REAL Texaspackerbacker ?? :roflmao:
     
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  19. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    I'm the same as I've always been, Bill. However, I get a different feeling for a country whose people are greatly oppressed by their own government and may not support it in high percentages, compared to other countries or religious groups where not just the dictator on top, but the vast majority down to the man in the street are fanatically and irrationally against us (and by us, I include your country). I wouldn't be at all upset to nuke that second bunch or hit them hard with conventional weapons. Taking out North Korea, however, with malice would kill a lot of poor slobs who haven't demonstrated that they need killin' - as we say in Texas - like Muslims, for example. There now, Bill, hahaha - are you convinced it's really me?
     
  20. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    Take your time, NWC. Careful you don't swallow too much liberal propaganda put out by (revisionist?) historians hahaha. I survived four years at one of the most left wing institutions on the face of the earth - the University of Wisconsin - without getting converted. I strategically avoided bringing religion into that good and evil thing, as I'm not the world's greatest example that way personally, but the fact is, our Judeo-Christian culture, heritage, and morality is pretty much what sets us apart (and above in terms of good and evil) as a nation ...... pretty much anybody you can name who ain't us.
     
  21. Shawnsta3

    Shawnsta3 Cheesehead

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    I don't really have a comment on anything other than this: Usually, and historically, it is not one side; right or left, that is right on all issues or for that matter wrong. Most of the best decisions (apart from the civil war) happen by the two sides meeting in the middle. I believe for every "left-wing propaganda" there is a " right wing propaganda"

    Calling one side out like this is biased and wrong. This reply applies to every post I've seen by you and not just this one.
     
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  22. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Okay, it`s really you....lol :tup:
     
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  23. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    Then you are a victim of that propaganda - from the media, from the educational establishment - both of which are horrendously biased in favor of anything leftist and against America. Open you eyes! Read a little bit! What you are spouting is called "moral equivalence". Do you honestly see North Korea, the fundamentalist Muslims, or any of these other tyranny-ridden freedom hating countries around the world as basically the same as us? And in case you are thinking about expounding on the moral degeneracy of this country and how things have gotten worse in terms of thought and behavior over the last couple of generations, yeah, that's true, but who gets the blame for that? That exact same media and educational establishment that leads you to conclude America is just like ...... fill in the blank.

    Usually and historically? So the Nazis were no worse than us? Maybe we should have "met them in the middle"? How about Soviet Communism? Just a bunch of nice guys trying to make the world a better place? Come on! The Muslims now? Yeah, what do we need all this freedom for anyway? Lets just meet them in the middle on Sharia Law, women's rights, beheadings, honor killings, etc. Oh and North Korea - poor Kim Un whatever is just a misguided kid - let him have his toys - meet him in the middle - if he promises to leave Wisconsin and the east coast alone, we'll let him nuke the west coast. Wake up Shawn.
     
  24. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

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    I'd like to interject some humor if I may. Found this, this morning browsing around the internet and it is aptly topical to this conversation.

    [​IMG]
     
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  25. Poppa San

    Poppa San SB I trophy First of four Staff Member Moderator

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    Unless your book was a handout or is otherwise OK to copy, wouldn't it be less time consuming and just easier to swipe it from the bookstore?
     

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