NFL Guidance on Roughing the Passer

[HardRightEdge]

The NFL completed this first review (of what may be several going forward) of the roughing rules. They have provided 4 examples each of roughing and legal tackles for public consumption:

http://media02.nfl.info/NFL/Officiating/2018/Cerminaro/Roughing the Passer 09_27_18.mp4

In looking at these clips, I would conclude that the Matthews flag in the Washington game isn't clearly one or the other. However, my takeaway is what the league expects is for the defender to get well into a roll tackle before the QB hits the ground whereby most body weight is not landing on the QB. Starting to roll while hitting the ground is not sufficient. They are not backing off the Matthews calls or like calls.

The NFL is not changing any rule wording or interpretation. The especially critical wording in the rules persists:

"When in doubt about a roughness call or potentially dangerous tactic against the quarterback, the Referee should always call roughing the passer."

Since it is hard to believe this "education" was not done already before the season started, providing clips to refs and teams showing what's expected, one cannot help but think this review is for public acclimation and persuasion.

The NFL made some late wording changes before the season started to the helmet contact rules whereby excluding the tackle box. The NFL's history shows they are loathe to change anything once the season starts. I would not expect anything further on this (except maybe more tapes and talk) for the duration of the season. It may undergo review and tweeking in the offseason.

This is what we've got for the duration of the season. A consistency problem remains and it is hard to see how 8 video clips on top of the ones already distributed is going to solve that.

For a little perspective, the NFL has thrown 34 roughing flags through 3 weeks, double the number last year. It's still less than one per game, and less than one every two games more than last season, which is less than the sketchy PI and holding calls and non-calls we see on a weekly basis. So there's that cold comfort.

On the Packer front, Matthews' comments on the matter in the following link are interesting:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...ation-roughing-passer-rule-ensure-consistency

First, he reports that Murphy, McCarthy and his position coach told him this is the way it's going to be, nothing is changing.

"I just think somehow you need to program something in your head that when you're coming with those straight-on hits with the quarterback, to pick a side, maybe go after the ball. Those are going to be the tough ones. As a pass rusher, most of your sacks -- that's not true."

That's right, Clay...hit, wrap up, and roll. I'm sure there's a tackling dummy around to practice on. Like it or not, it is what it is and it ain't changing.

 

[Mondio]

This is going to backfire. Tackles are tackles. There were ones where guys were giving a little extra and they seemed fairly obvious, but I guess they want them all gone. So be it. Wait until grasp, roll and swing down to the side becomes the soup du jour and the QB's head is going to gain even more momentum and hit legs, knees and bounce of the ground even more than it did before. So much for cleaning up the game. Until they make a rule against that too.

 

[gatorpack]

It's a joke!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I didn't realize until this week that the body weight provision of the rule has been in place since 1995 but the league made it a point of emphasis this offseason.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-committee-clarifies-techniques-on-sack-fouls

In my opinion with Mark Murphy being on the competition committee the Packers should be able to teach their pass rushers the legal way of tackling a quarterback.

I still believe the rule being enforced that way is ridiculous though.

 

[Mondio]

I didn't realize until this week that the body weight provision of the rule has been in place since 1995 but the league made it a point of emphasis this offseason.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-committee-clarifies-techniques-on-sack-fouls

In my opinion with Mark Murphy being on the competition committee the Packers should be able to teach their pass rushers the legal way of tackling a quarterback.

I still believe the rule being enforced that way is ridiculous though.

I do remember that being in place once, didn't realize it was so far back though. I remember this being in effect even last year though, I posted the rule about "stuffing" the QB, but at this point I don't want to look for it again. It doesn't matter. I'm pretty sure that bringing them to the side too hard is also against the rules. Where they grab them and sling them down. I remember that being a no no at one point too and I see it coming back again like the body weight rule because that is how a lot of QB's are going to get taken down and injuries will happen from it.

 

[BrokenArrow]

I'm just going to point out the elephant in the room here. The very fact that the NFL thought they needed to release this video at all is a pretty clear indication to me that they know they've got a major problem on their hands. This stupid video isn't going to get them anywhere though.

 

[XPack]

As usual, NFL is polishing a turd.

They should be training referees and not players on 'landing with body weight'

 

[Wi. Mike now in Florida]

Clay Matthews was told by everyone in the Packers front office this week including Mark Murphy and coaches to keep playing
the way he is.
Ok, so if there's additional roughing the passer flags in the games to come, will the Packers be OK with the 15 yard penalties
and another chance to lose the game??

Now I'm really confused

 

[HardRightEdge]

Clay Matthews was told by everyone in the Packers front office this week including Mark Murphy and coaches to keep playing
the way he is.
Ok, so if there's additional roughing the passer flags in the games to come, will the Packers be OK with the 15 yard penalties
and another chance to lose the game??

Now I'm really confused

Initially, that's how I read Matthews' comment as quoted by Demovsky:

"That's the biggest thing is, from speaking with Mark, Coach Mike, my position coach, everything, it's not to change a thing," Matthews said.

I think he meant it is not rule change per se, but a so-called "point of emphasis", because immediatly after that Demovsky quoted him as saying, "I just think somehow you need to program something in your head that when you're coming with those straight-on hits with the quarterback, to pick a side, maybe go after the ball. Those are going to be the tough ones. As a pass rusher, most of your sacks -- that's not true."

That second statement is the correct perspective. Fair or unfair, he absolutely, positively cannot keep playing the way he has and draw more flags.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Clay Matthews was told by everyone in the Packers front office this week including Mark Murphy and coaches to keep playing
the way he is.
Ok, so if there's additional roughing the passer flags in the games to come, will the Packers be OK with the 15 yard penalties
and another chance to lose the game??

Now I'm really confused

The Packers definitely won't be OK with Matthews being flagged for roughing the passer even more. The team rightfully doesn't want to change his playing style too much though.

 

[gopkrs]

I agree with the league that a sacker should not fall with all his body weight on the QB. And most of the time it has been done on purpose. I can usually see those giants and sometimes the interior fatties just letting their arms go limp and landing full force on the QB. Not necessary and flagrant imho.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I agree with the league that a sacker should not fall with all his body weight on the QB. And most of the time it has been done on purpose. I can usually see those giants and sometimes the interior fatties just letting their arms go limp and landing full force on the QB. Not necessary and flagrant imho.

On most occasions it's impossible for a defensive player not to fall with most of his body weight on a quarterback while sacking him.

 

[elcid]

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Look at 8:15. In the first weeks, this sack by Daniel Hunter would have been called. I really can't help but wonder how much better the season would have went had Alexander intercepted Kirk at Lambeau to seal the deal. Lot less question marks and pressure, more confidence. Too many costly penalties were certainly a factor in the derailing of our season.

 

[HardRightEdge]

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Look at 8:15. In the first weeks, this sack by Daniel Hunter would have been called. I really can't help but wonder how much better the season would have went had Alexander intercepted Kirk at Lambeau to seal the deal. Lot less question marks and pressure, more confidence. Too many costly penalties were certainly a factor in the derailing of our season.

There's no question in my mind certain officiating crews, if not the league as a whole, dialed way back on both the roughing and helmet contact rules since the early games. With some crews it is as though those rule changes were neve made.

 

[Mondio]

it's was a joke the way they stood behind such BS for the first month or so and then just "****" it all went away with hardly a word. They just stood up there like a bunch of politicians lying to our faces without a care if we believed them or not. It's just what they were going to do.

 

[HardRightEdge]

it's was a joke the way they stood behind such BS for the first month or so and then just "****" it all went away with hardly a word. They just stood up there like a bunch of politicians lying to our faces without a care if we believed them or not. It's just what they were going to do.

I was watching a New Orleans game a couple of weeks back where a receiver took a vicious helmet-to-helmet hit along the sidelines. The end zone replay showed a ref staring right at the play. No flag. And there is no question that the Hunter hit in elcid's post is exactly what the rule was supposed to address. No flag.

Conversely, I've seen in recent weeks helmet hits get called where the contact is incidental or actually a shoulder hit. And note Calais Cambell's hit on Roethlisburger that was flagged and fined just a couple of weeks ago in the following link, which would not have been flagged last season:

http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/...-ben-roethlisberger/er2qg1q18clz19mfou80qq3ne

My takeaway is a player can go ahead and bury a QB with full body weight, but if you roll off him right away you might draw the flag or maybe you don't.

It seems some officiating crews have their own ideas and the league doesn't do a very good job herding the officiating cats. In a way, this has always been the case. Some crews have always been known to throw a lot of flags while others "let them play". Teams have been scouting officiating crews for years for tendencies. Frankly, I don't see better consistency in calling pass interference than I do in the calls on these new rules. Problem: Flags are not reviewable.

I don't see it as the league "lying" about intent so much as having a vague idea of what they want to accomplish which results in a sloppy job in defining the rules and, consequently not drilling the refs with numerous examples of the dos and don'ts the rule is intended to define. The league just doesn't think these things through thoroughly in advance, as we saw when they made a late change to exempt helmet hits in the tackle box, which was kind of a "duh".

They don't lie. They muddle.

How much dumb stuff went into the catch rules over years before, finally, they've gotten it close to right. Muddling.

 

[Mondio]

Close to right? I could more easily call a catch 30, 20, 10 years ago than I can today.

Lying , muddle, call it what you want. The beginning of this season was a disaster with roughing QBs and the league completely backed off, completely, after doubling down and saying the clay Matthews tackle was going to distributed as a teaching tape.

Their whole handling of it was a joke. I don’t care what you want to call it.

 

[AKCheese]

Hopefully we won’t have to worry about Clay getting flagged in Green Bay next year. Seriously though, I saw a RTP call in the SF/Hawks game I COULD NOT BELIEVE. In my mind there IS a difference between tackling a guy and falling on him.... vs intentionally laying out so that your entire body weight lands on him. BTW.... taking a blow primping your hair with a trip to the Super Bowl on the line? ZERO chance of getting flagged . That said, going up against the Jets and Lions with nothing at stake? I see some monster meaningless stats coming for the ClayMaker!!

 

[BrokenArrow]

How many times have we seen Rodgers get slammed under a guys weight or hit directly in the head or below the knees without a single call in his favor this year? There must be at least half a dozen.