1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
  2. Announcement is LIVE: Read the Forum Post

new base 3-4 to make up for loss of cullen jenkins

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by cupacker, Aug 10, 2011.

  1. cupacker

    cupacker Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Messages:
    103
    Ratings:
    +20
    Packers consider reconfigured base defense - JSOnline

    the best part about this is it seems like it not only makes sense, but raji, pickett, and neal seem to be all for it. much different than kampman not wanting to be a part of the 3-4 :) i find this pretty exciting, i was worried about our d-line. players and coaches are not apparently.
     
  2. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    16,125
    Ratings:
    +4,082
    Capers knows what he is doing.

    I really really hope someone doesnt snag him after this season.
     
  3. cupacker

    cupacker Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Messages:
    103
    Ratings:
    +20
    well the good news is i seriously don't think anyone would snag him for a head coaching job. he's clearly much better at DC
     
  4. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    16,125
    Ratings:
    +4,082
    Can we just pay him top 10 head coach $? seriously...
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. cupacker

    cupacker Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Messages:
    103
    Ratings:
    +20
    if that's what it takes to keep him after his contract is up, i'm all for it lol
     
  6. 2411t

    2411t Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Messages:
    679
    Ratings:
    +119
    How do Steelers keep Dick LeBeau? Does he get top 10 $?
     
  7. neilfii

    neilfii Hall of Fame Fan

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    4,681
    Ratings:
    +714
    Either that or he did something foolish/borderline illegal and they blackmail him to stay. j/k
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    3,936
    Ratings:
    +3,031
    So here comes the next trick up Dom's sleeve! This makes all kinds of sense because it maximizes Raji's talent and Pickett's in the base D. We should keep in mind that they weren't in the base D that often last season but when they are, Raji should be able to cause offenses as much, or more problems than Jenkins did. Instead of "catching" O linemen at NT and controlling the middle, he'll be shooting gaps more. And Pickett goes back to taking on double teams at NT, which is his strength. Raji becomes the pass rushing specialist on the DL and Neal takes over Pickett's spot at DE on the strong side. Pickett has done a great job vs. the run but he won't get the pass rush Raji did at NT. But what they lose there in pass rush they will gain IMO at both DE positions.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    16,125
    Ratings:
    +4,082
    He just wants to stay. He turns down pretty much every offer to discuss a hc job
     
  10. slaughter25

    slaughter25 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    727
    Ratings:
    +211
    I never really thought about this as an option this year, and hell i guess that's why Dom Capers is the defensive genius and I am here posting on a forum. But I love it. Raji getting to shoot a gap, be more instinctual in his pass rush rather than having to think, read, and choose a gap makes me not miss Jenkins so bad. Hopefully this big boys can cause some mayhem in the backfield on both passing and running down situations. And also i def agree we need to do whatever it takes ( huge contract, strippers, etc) to lock down Capers for as long as possible
     
  11. GBPack2010

    GBPack2010 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2011
    Messages:
    483
    Ratings:
    +67
    I like this new formation. Pickett needs to be double teamed and it's tough for any lineman to go 1 on 1 with Raji. Neal will need to prove he's the real deal and he'll def. have the opportunities to do so.
     
  12. totalpackers

    totalpackers Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2011
    Messages:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    I don't necessarily think the defense is designed to make up for the loss of Jenkins because the coaching staff is very high on Mike Neal, who is going to start. It's more that Pickett plays better on the nose than at defensive end. And since B.J. Raji is a godd*m terror, they can pretty much put him anywhere on the line.
    I see it as maximizing the players' strengths who are going to spend the most time on the field. I won't say Neal will have more sacks than Jenkins did last season, but I'll bet he has more tackles.
     
  13. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    3,936
    Ratings:
    +3,031
    I disagree a little bit totalpackers. Neal was going to start no matter what in the base (unless injured of course). I do think Raji replaces Jenkins pass rush potential but just in the base D. But again, they weren’t in the base more than one-third of the time last season so the Packers may still miss Jenkins when they go 2-4-5. We know what we can expect from Raji in the 2-man line – and he may be even better this season – but IMO it will be up to Neal in the two man line to replace Jenkins' pass rush. Of course the subs will rotate in, too. It will be interesting to see how this change affects Raji. Instead of going from the NT techniques in base to the 3- and 5-techniques in the 2-4-5, Raji will be playing the same techniques throughout the game. That's if Capers goes ahead with this plan. Who knows, even if he does we may still see Raji at NT occasionally.

    I think/hope it’ll be retirement that will lure Capers away and I hope that doesn’t happen for a long, long time.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Future

    Future He did WHAT?

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2011
    Messages:
    362
    Ratings:
    +87
    I wonder who we'll see as the DL in the Psycho package. Raji probably makes the most sense there.
     
  15. Passepartout

    Passepartout I Pooted!

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2009
    Messages:
    191
    Ratings:
    +18
    People are different. Some are for the 3-4 and some are not. It depends on whether you want to be a team player or not as well.
     
  16. armand34

    armand34 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,859
    Ratings:
    +280
    I'm pretty sure that Raji is one of the most athletic men in the world at 340 pounds...it was evident for the whole world to see in the playoffs...I'm really curious to see if he meets all of our expectations when his number is called...of course it helps when you have some serious blitzing threats from the corner position off the same edge that Raji will be rushing....oh man, could be forcing them to throw TE's on the weakside to help block and leaves 52 one on one...oh man...this could be nutty!
     
  17. GBPack2010

    GBPack2010 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2011
    Messages:
    483
    Ratings:
    +67
    Even if the sky falls down, I don't think anybody would leave 52 in 1 on 1 situation unless it's one of the top 5 OT in the League. Even then......would any coach risk their QB taking a direct hit by Matthews?
     
  18. 2411t

    2411t Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Messages:
    679
    Ratings:
    +119
    Dude... does the psycho package ever work? It always ends in a 3rd n long conversion.
     
  19. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    3,936
    Ratings:
    +3,031
    Does it ever work? YES. The Packers finished the 2010 season second in points allowed per game, fifth in passing yards allowed per game, and second in sacks. Of course psycho was used sparingly and while I couldn't find stats specifically related to the psycho defensive alignment, here are several examples of it working.

    Here's a diagram of an INT vs. BUF using the psycho D.

    Here's a great quote from a Madison.com story about that play: "Shortly before the Bills' third play from scrimmage, Edwards broke the huddle and was greeted with chaos as looked over the Packers' defense. Chaos actually has a name — "Psycho," a nickel package that includes one defensive lineman, five linebackers and five defensive backs.

    CBS cameras zoomed in on Edwards, whose eyes were wide open. He looked confused and maybe even a little scared.
    "You see his eye scanning," said Brandon Chillar, one of the five linebackers in the package. "He doesn't know where you are coming from."

    The result was predictable. Less than four seconds after the ball was snapped to Edwards, he was on the ground with Clay Matthews on top of him — the first of three sacks for the outside linebacker during the Packers' 34-7 victory."

    Here's a video of a sack from the psycho D vs. WAS that resulted in a 9-yard sack.

    Here's an excerpt from a NY Post story before the Packers Jets game last season: "It's a tricky scheme," center Nick Mangold said. "It really makes you think and it tests whether or not the whole offensive line is on the same page along with the backs and quarterback. It's really going to be a test for us, because they can attack in many different ways."

    Right guard Brandon Moore said playing against the Packers' psycho scheme is "more of a feel deal." "You've got to be able to switch guys with everyone being alert and play it out on the move," Moore said. "We've got it on film and have a plan for it. We've had variations with that dealing with our defense."

    Here's a 2009 headline from USA Today: Packers 'psycho' defense confuses Cutler, Bears

    Here's an excerpt from Madison.com story from that Bear game: "The genesis of the "Psycho" package dates to Capers' stint as a defensive coordinator for the Jacksonville Jaguars from 1999-2000. He unleashed it again last season — his first with the Packers — during a December meeting with the Bears in Chicago, and the results were fantastic. The Packers went "Psycho" on seven third-down plays during a 21-14 victory over Cutler and the Bears. Chicago converted only 1 of 6 third downs and was called for holding once against the package." (I added the emphasis.)

    But hey, no scheme or alignment always works so here's a video from NFL Total Access. It's a discussion with Warren Sapp, Peprah, Bush, and Bishop. They show a sack against PIT from the psycho and a 25-yard completion vs. psycho.

    Obviously this innovative formation from the mind of Dom Capers causes confusion and IMO works more often than not. At the very least, every team the Packers play have to prepare for it.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  20. 2411t

    2411t Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Messages:
    679
    Ratings:
    +119
    Great info thanks! Also, "Packers 'psycho' defense confuses Cutler, Bears" <-- Great way to start my morning!
     
  21. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Messages:
    8,471
    Ratings:
    +979
    Psycho works like a charm if the timing is right, but no huddle offenses will murder it.

    It's too much movement and confusion, with a quick offense, is hard to settle.

    Another thing that disrpupts it's time is a very, very slow snap count, like Favre did against us. It makes the D to tell what it's going to do.

    So, it's a great D, but extremely risky, because the disguize and timing needs to be perfect.
     
  22. mradtke66

    mradtke66 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    472
    Ratings:
    +189
    I don't buy the hype that no-huddle is the counter to the Psycho. If anything, I suspect that Psycho is the counter to no-huddle.

    Consider: most defenses have a 'safe' call. Should the offense start doing something weird, the safe call is check to a base cover-2 or cover-3.

    This is an advantage to the offense. If the quarterback can safely expect a basic defense, he wins. (I believe the Oregon Ducks did this for the 2010 season. Quick to the line, a snap every 18 seconds or something like that. Opposing defenses ran something vanilla, as defensive plays couldn't get called fast enough.)

    What do you do? Personally, I'm not quite smart enough to be a defensive coordinator, but I'd have 6 'safe' checks 1 for 1st and 5-10, 1st and 1-5, 2nd and 5-10, 2 and 1-5, 3rd and 5-10, and 3rd and 1-5. A set of 6 new plays each quarter. Or more often, if your defense is on the field too much and the pattern is figured out.
     
  23. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Messages:
    8,471
    Ratings:
    +979
    I'm just passing along what Peyton Manning stated about it, seeing Tom Brady and Bill Bellichick use the no-huddle against Baltimore's psycho package.
     

Share This Page