Nathaniel Hackett new OC

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I like this guy already.
Yeah, It kinda surprised me at first he said that in response to “West Coast” (with him being newer to play calling and all). I liked it wasn’t a canned answer anyways he cut through the bs and I appreciate not getting lip service. He’s confident enough in his skills that he doesn’t need to “sound” knowledgeable. He got right to the point in saying his focus is how he can improve the running game.

I was thinking I got two ways..give me David Edwards or Beau Benschawel on Rye please!
 
H

HardRightEdge

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Yeah, It kinda surprised me at first he said that in response to “West Coast” (with him being newer to play calling and all). I liked it wasn’t a canned answer anyways he cut through the bs and I appreciate not getting lip service. He’s confident enough in his skills that he doesn’t need to “sound” knowledgeable. He got right to the point in saying his focus is how he can improve the running game.

I was thinking I got one way..give me a
Beau Benzschawel on Rye please!
I liked his answer because it is the right answer. If I look at some tape of a Bill Walsh / Joe Montana offense I see "West Coast". Nothing today looks like that in any meaningful way.
 
D

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You may get your wish. On an NFL Satellite radio interview this morning LaFleur said specifically he wanted more balance on running vs passing. He talked about how important it is to open up play action.

Actually data suggests that success on rushing plays doesn't result in play action being more successful.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/further-research-play-action-passing

Petals' offensive background suggests a lot more rushing attempts than what the Packers were normally doing under McCarthy. In recent seasons, GB was somewhere from 32-38% in terms of running plays. The Rams and 49ers were much higher, as were his Titans last year.

Well, LaFleur didn't have a quarterback even close to being as talented as Rodgers with any of those teams though.
 

Dantés

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Actually data suggests that success on rushing plays doesn't result in play action being more successful.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/further-research-play-action-passing



Well, LaFleur didn't have a quarterback even close to being as talented as Rodgers with any of those teams though.

Absolutely. And I don't expect the Packers to run 49% like the Titans did last year. But they will be a lot more balanced than they've been, I'm confident. That offense is predicated on that OZ run they use so commonly.
 

DarkHelmet

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It's always tempting to say 'run more' but if the O-line is designed primarily for pass protection the 'run more' ends up being 2 yard carry on first, stuffed for no gain on second and now we have third and long.

A team with Rodgers is always going to be pass first. What's needed is not necessarily more running plays -- it's more creativity, period. And better execution. Rodgers has to be more accurate with his 5-10 yard passes. Way too many were thrown too high, too low or behind receivers over the last two years.

Also, the best way to get more running plays called is to build an early lead.
 

Dantés

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It's always tempting to say 'run more' but if the O-line is designed primarily for pass protection the 'run more' ends up being 2 yard carry on first, stuffed for no gain on second and now we have third and long.

A team with Rodgers is always going to be pass first. What's needed is not necessarily more running plays -- it's more creativity, period. And better execution. Rodgers has to be more accurate with his 5-10 yard passes. Way too many were thrown too high, too low or behind receivers over the last two years.

Also, the best way to get more running plays called is to build an early lead.

Given that they were dead last in run %, I think what's also necessary are more running plays.
 

PackAttack12

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It's always tempting to say 'run more' but if the O-line is designed primarily for pass protection the 'run more' ends up being 2 yard carry on first, stuffed for no gain on second and now we have third and long.

A team with Rodgers is always going to be pass first. What's needed is not necessarily more running plays -- it's more creativity, period. And better execution. Rodgers has to be more accurate with his 5-10 yard passes. Way too many were thrown too high, too low or behind receivers over the last two years.

Also, the best way to get more running plays called is to build an early lead.
There's merit to what you're saying, but more running is going to be needed as well. More balance will keep teams from being able to pin their ears back and tee off on Rodgers, who took an *** whooping for much of the year.

The Packers have been far too predictable for far too long. More running is going to be necessary. To Dantés point, does he expect for it to be 50/50? No. And nor should it be when you have Aaron Rodgers. But this is something to think about:

Playoff teams in the top 10 in passing percentage:

Eagles
Colts

Only two teams. 6th seeds at that. And even those two teams ran it more than their season average toward the last few weeks.

Playoff teams in the bottom 10 in passing percentage:

Cowboys
Texans
Patriots
Rams
Bears
Saints
Ravens
Seahawks

You've got good running teams obviously, but you also have teams that have the ability to be explosive like the Saints, Patriots, and Rams.

So again, having some type of balance is extremely important. And it doesn't imply that we have to be a 50/50 ball club, because Seattle is the only team in the NFL that ran it more than they threw it. But our 2018 passing percentage of 67 (which led the NFL) ideally needs to be in the 55 to 60 range for the betterment of the Packers. That will help facilitate in making the passing game more effective.
 

AmishMafia

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I liked his answer because it is the right answer. If I look at some tape of a Bill Walsh / Joe Montana offense I see "West Coast". Nothing today looks like that in any meaningful way.
Exactly. I still see articles or hear people on TV/radio who describe the Packers as running the WCO. To my memory, McCarthy never ran that while here. Seems to me he was asked as a rookie HC if he would run the WCO and his response was something like "No, it's all about individual matchups."

So what is it? To me a WCO is
- spread formations
- quick slants
- FB screens
- setting up for YAC
 

pacmaniac

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Seems to me like he will be a long-term OC because he does not have the resumé to be offered a HC position anytime soon. This is a great hire when all things are considered.

Depends on whether he wants to call plays again.
 
D

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But this is something to think about:

Playoff teams in the bottom 10 in passing percentage:

Cowboys
Texans
Patriots
Rams
Bears
Saints
Ravens
Seahawks

You've got good running teams obviously, but you also have teams that have the ability to be explosive like the Saints, Patriots, and Rams.

I agree the Packers need to run the ball more often but the main reasons those teams listed ended up in the bottom 10 in passing percentage is that aside of Seattle (12th) they were all within the top 10 in average lead when taking the field.
 
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HardRightEdge

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Exactly. I still see articles or hear people on TV/radio who describe the Packers as running the WCO. To my memory, McCarthy never ran that while here. Seems to me he was asked as a rookie HC if he would run the WCO and his response was something like "No, it's all about individual matchups."

So what is it? To me a WCO is
- spread formations
- quick slants
- FB screens
- setting up for YAC
Spread formations? Not really. Whether the genesis of West Coast in Cincinnati in 1970, which Walsh implented under Paul Brown when Greg Cook was injured and replaced by the less skilled Virgil Carter, or the subsequent implementation in San Francisco, it was run primarily out of the standard formation of the day: 2 back, in-line TE, 2 wide.

Nothing today looks like that except the occasional short yardage where the FB/H-back lead blocks. Even then it is typically a run sell-out with a 7 man line (or even 8 man with no wideouts).

McCarthy hit the nail on the head. Those quick slants, FB screens and setting up for YAC was a match-up game, not in the player-vs-player meaning but in the way the offense attacks a defense. It was a departure from what was primarily a "we play our game, you play yours, and we'll see who wins".

Walsh was exploiting a defensive ineffciency in that defenses were largely static without the variety of substitutions or the disguises as we see today.

Today, the term West Coast is meaningless. Everybody runs a wide variety of everything on both sides of the ball in the match-up game. The differences boil down to (1) insight, what works best against what, (2) talent, where what you have leads to what you can emphasize and what you have to minimize, (3) clarity, in what's to be executed, euphemistically referred to as "communication", developed in practice and (4) execution, "do your job" invidivually within the collective concept which is most acutely a factor in line play.
 
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Dantés

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The term WCO referred to systems that emerged in the 70's and 80's that put a heavier emphasis on the passing game, forcing defenders to cover the entire field, and timing routes. Walsh's system relied more heavily on the short passing game, while the Gillman/Coryell version was a vertical attack. These offenses used traditional formations (i.e. 21 personnel) in non-traditional ways (throwing to the backs and tight ends far more often than was typical in that era). The current iteration of the Patriots is probably the closest thing we have to Walsh's style of offense in today's NFL.

But the term is irrelevant, because it was originally used to describe a few teams that stuck out from the norm. But today, literally every single NFL offense incorporates the principles of the WCO offense.
 
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Yes. I think we should all agree to go ahead and coin a new term “All Coast Offense”
 
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