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Myles Jack

Discussion in '2016 Draft Archive' started by Shanghai Pack, Apr 28, 2016.

  1. Vrill

    Vrill Cheesehead

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    Well, what's done is done, no use in having an aneurysm over it unless you're a masochist ;)

    But all things considered, IMO, besides not addressing the ILB spot (so far), this hasn't been a bad draft for us.
     
  2. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Well, ignoring it like Thompson has done only works until the start of the season.
     
  3. bigbubbatd

    bigbubbatd Cheesehead

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    To say it only took 5 picks is true but plenty of teams could have traded up into those first 4 picks if they thought he was that big of a steal but they didn't. TT could have made a mistake but almost every other Gm did is as well. Or they all weren't swayed by Dr andrews. It will be interesting to see who is right
     
  4. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Saying he doesn't need microfracture surgery now doesn't mean he won't in the future. Andrews just addressed now. Even jack himself said he may need it in the future.

    plain and simple, Ted doesn't value the ILB position, that's pretty clear at this point

    Oh and I heard good things about lacy getting his life together and making better decisions from people who know him. "I think he gets it finally" was what I heard.
     
  5. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    There's no guarantee any of the teams which had the first four picks in the second round was willing to agree to a trade. BTW the Jaguars traded up to select him.

    We've been told around here that Thompson is smarter than most GMs so I expect him to do better than his counterparts.

    Which is pretty stupid considering two guys at the position play nearly every single down on defense.
     
  6. Vrill

    Vrill Cheesehead

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    Its clear that the staff really likes Jake Ryan. I am wondering though what they really think about Sam Barrington? I know some of us fans don't think Sam is the answer next to Ryan (hell, some even think Ryan isn't the answer either) - Yet again though, and I've said this ad nauseam, what we as fans want and think the team needs, doesn't always translate to what the coaching staff, GM's and scouts think the team needs. I'm not quick to call Ted an idiot for this like some are, but then again, I do wonder (all BS aside) what they honestly think and feel about our current ILB situation? Maybe they just don't value the ILB position? Maybe all they care about are big run stuffing DL and outside pass rushers. Who knows? But if that is the case, then we need to go back to a 4-3. Because 3-4 personnel very much does need two ILB's that are more than just average. You can get away with average LB play in a 4-3 as long as your DL is elite. But not in a 3-4 as much.
     
  7. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Barrington coming off a season ending foot injury is a question mark to begin with. There's absolutely no way the coaching staff should feel comfortable with having Thomas and Bradford as the primary and only backups at the position.

    Even in a 4-3 defense teams need better linebackers than the Packers to be successful in the long run.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    So, just read an article discussing how the Packers build the team and one paragraph struck me as odd (btw, you should read the article, interesting read, link at bottom of post). Aaron Nagler (SI and Cheesehead TV) reported that the Packers were close to drafting Myles Jack in the first round but were concerned about his second-contract potential due to his knee injury. This struck me, if true, as kind of stupid. Historically, first round defensive players from Thompson haven't needed to worry about a second contract because their performance hasn't been worth a second deal (and I'm talking about a first round worthy second contract, not the one-year "try to prove I'm worth" it deal that Perry signed). What's the real concern? I mean, logically, what's the real concern? That Jack will be really good for three years (that would be TERRIFIC for the Packers) but that his knee will become a problem and he won't be worth a second deal? Guess what, that would be more than the Packers got out of Perry, Jones, Harrell, Sherrod or Raji (who did give the Packers one good year).

    Look at it this way. Ndamukong Suh only played out his first contract for the Lions. Does anyone look back at the Lions taking Suh and think it was a wasted pick? I'm not saying that Clark won't be terrific, I have no idea and I'm real hopeful, but factoring in a guy's SECOND contract (5 years down the road!) when making a draft pick doesn't make any sense. Again, Suh was a GREAT pick by the Lions and the Lions didn't get a second contract out of him.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...kers-won-the-draft-by-building-for-the-future
     
  9. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    I don't know about that...In a 4-3 defense, if you had two linebackers of Matthews' and Peppers' caliber you'd be pretty much set. Obviously Peppers wouldn't be playing LB in a 4-3 but we're only talking skill level here, not actually moving those players into those positions. A 4-3 linebacker that played as well as Peppers does at OLB would be a pretty good 4-3 LB. And Matthews is one of the best 3-4 OLBs in the NFL (ignore the past two seasons that have seen him out of position and playing m'eh at ILB), so you'd have to say the 4-3 team would have one of the best 4-3 LBs in the NFL. So, a 4-3 team with a really good linebacker and another linebacker that's one of the best in the NFL would be pretty much set at LB.

    People focus on ILB but I really think a big part of the problem (note, I'm not saying the ONLY problem, just a part of it!) is the lack of a decent NT to keep the guys clean. Packers have had to play heavier ILBs because the NT can't keep guards from the second level. That's why I've never liked the idea of drafting one of those 225-230 lb ILBs like Shazier or Darron Lee...they'd get crushed in the run game.
     
  10. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    If we'd have drafted Suh #2 in the draft and couldn't get a second contract out of him, yeah, I'd call that a wasted pick. The idea in picking so high is to get the real game changers, the all pro's, the HOFer's, and you don't want them to go in the prime of their career. Plenty of other rotational players to have roster turnover with, but the high draft picks and the big names? if you lose them after one contract, it was a mistake
     
  11. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    I think you have to read beyond what little that article wrote about the situation. Saying "second contract" is simplifying it. There isn't much guarantee that anyone makes it to the second contract. With Jack, it was more of a concern that his playing time could never even occur or be 1 play, 1 game, 1 season, etc. Personally, despite the concerns and what I have read, I would have loved the gamble. However, I totally understand the concern of using your #1 on a guy that medically, some have said, might have a very limited playing career.

    To think about it in a future light. Look at how everyone perceives the Sherrod pick? His medical condition happened after we picked him. If Jack's knee blows out early, how is that pick going to look down the road? You and I both know, there would be endless discussion about how TT should have known this was going to happen. Of course, Sherrod wasn't a top 5 pick either :D
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2016
  12. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Absolutely agree with the first paragraph of your post. The comparison to Suh, who was the second overall pick, isn't a good one though. It's true he was a great pick by the Lions but for sure extremely disappointing they weren't able to aign him to a second contract. With Thompson re-signing close to all core players after their rookie deals expire it's hard to imagine something like would have happened with the Packers.

    While the linebackers have a different assignment in a 4-3 defense the unit still needs productive players at those positions.

    The main reason passing on Jack is mind-boggling to me is that right now he's healthy. It's anybody's guess what happens with a draft pick a few years down the road but not selecting a special talent late in the first round, especially with the Packers mostly drafting at the end of it during Thompson's tenure, is extremely hard to understand.
     
  13. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    On FB, half the people complaining about the 1st pick compared him to the Justin Harrell pick and we should have taken Jack instead. I was left wondering if they remembered who Justin Harrell was? A guy with an injury history was a stupid pick, so we should have taken Myles Jack instead of a young DL with no injury history
     
  14. bigbubbatd

    bigbubbatd Cheesehead

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    Bob McGinn chimes in and has some great insight. A lot of interesting points and even history with Wolf and McKenzie. I found this quote from another team interesting.


    "We didn't get the OK to take him," the executive said this week. "Too big a risk. How do you waste a first-round pick? We didn't have enough picks to be throwing them around. Even if he can play, it's not going to be for long."

    http://m.jsonline.com/sports/packer...rafting-myles-jack-b99720748z1-378489746.html
     
  15. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Well, the article also states that one team within the top 20 cleared Jack. The Packers team physician failing Favre because of his hip before Wolf decided to trade for him ahould serve as evidence that doctors make mistakes as well.
     
  16. bigbubbatd

    bigbubbatd Cheesehead

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    Yes they make mistakes though McKenzie was the one who ultimately cleared Favre. 1 out of 20 isnt really great numbers and that 1 still chose not to take him. It easily could have been Jacksonville which meant it may have on been 1 out of the entire league.

    The main point is a ton of teams red flagged this guy. They could all be wrong but it isn't like TT and the pack became ultra conservative here. 19 of the top 20 didn't clear the guy. The quotes from the executive from another team are completely logical.
     
  17. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    During Thompson's tenure the Packers have rarely gotten a chance to select a player as talented as Jack. According to McGinn's article he was ranked the third best in this year's draft in a survey of multiple scouts.

    I would have liked Thompson to take a gamble on Jack. Especially considering he's currently healthy as he was able to participate in the Jaguars rookie camp this weekend.

    It's possible he won't end up playing a lot of years in the league but there aren't any guarantees with other players either.
     
  18. Sky King

    Sky King 158.3

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    Achilles choice: A short and glorious life or a long and uneventful one. TT chose the latter with the hope that he finds a gem in the middle rounds that might be worthwhile. We pretty much know that he's not going to seek one as a FA.

    One consolation is that the guy who helped clear the way for Myles Jack will now be playing a similar role for us.
     
  19. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    Myles is really the only player I'd wished we'd went and grabbed.....outside of that though I loved the draft personally. I just suspect with the depth of the DL this draft...we could have switch Clark for Jack....still traded up for Spriggs....and most likely went DL with the Fackrell pick or seen us draft another one with the Martinez (although still even with Jack a smart pick up in the 4th) or Murphy pick.

    You simply swamp out Jack for Clark and than a DL in the 3rd or one of the 4ths and this draft is a freaking 6 STAR RATING.

    But alas it didn't happen. Clark plays well, we will all forgive staff.....but won't if Martinez can't atleast "plug" the ILB need enough to not feel shortchanged yet again.
     

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