My 2 rookies who would start from day 1..

[rodell330]

Wow. Do you fail to understand the implication of having to move into the top-8 (which may not even be high enough for Barr)? Look at the ATL trade - 2 first, 2 seconds, and 1 fourth. And the Falcons fan clearly explained how that trade has hurt their team more than it has helped, even though they landed a top-5 WR and true difference maker. For a person that claims he's all about FACTS, you sure do love to ignore the big picture when making such grandiose statements.

Hell, we can add Washington to the list of bad draft day trades. Sure, they got a potential franchise QB in RG3 and made the playoffs the next year. But, that trade yielded the following players for STL: Michael Brockers, Janoris Jenkins, Isaiah Pead, some mutt, Alec Ogletree, Stedman Bailey, and Zac Stacy.

To summon Andy Dufresne: How can you be so obtuse?

Ignore the big picture? lol ok pot calling kettle black eh?? yea sounds like it.

 

[NOMOFO]

Wow. Do you fail to understand the implication of having to move into the top-8 (which may not even be high enough for Barr)? Look at the ATL trade - 2 first, 2 seconds, and 1 fourth. And the Falcons fan clearly explained how that trade has hurt their team more than it has helped, even though they landed a top-5 WR and true difference maker. For a person that claims he's all about FACTS, you sure do love to ignore the big picture when making such grandiose statements.

Hell, we can add Washington to the list of bad draft day trades. Sure, they got a potential franchise QB in RG3 and made the playoffs the next year. But, that trade yielded the following players for STL: Michael Brockers, Janoris Jenkins, Isaiah Pead, some mutt, Alec Ogletree, Stedman Bailey, and Zac Stacy.

To summon Andy Dufresne: How can you be so obtuse?

Not to mention that there is seldom "value" is paying for the contracts that come along with the much higher slotted players.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

Not to mention that there is seldom "value" is paying for the contracts that come along with the much higher slotted players.

That's not entirely true any more since the rookie salary cap started. The rookie salary cap essentially made the top half of the draft a low risk/high reward situation. If you hit on a player such as JJ Watt, you get an All-Pro for 4 years/$12M. The Colts get Andrew Luck for 4years/$22M. The "value" is there if you draft the right player.

 

[NOMOFO]

That's not entirely true any more since the rookie salary cap started. The rookie salary cap essentially made the top half of the draft a low risk/high reward situation. If you hit on a player such as JJ Watt, you get an All-Pro for 4 years/$12M. The Colts get Andrew Luck for 4years/$22M. The "value" is there if you draft the right player.

no question... but if the guy isn't as "special" as a JJ Watt or Luck... then you're stuck. It's just my opinion... but we see year after year many top picks end up being less than anything special. I would rather invest in proven players.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

no question... but if the guy isn't as "special" as a JJ Watt or Luck... then you're stuck. It's just my opinion... but we see year after year many top picks end up being less than anything special. I would rather invest in proven players.

Morgan Burnett is making more than the first overall pick, so I would be fine investing the money in a high draft pick (not saying we should trade up or anything like that, just meaning the cap hit for a high draft pick isn't a huge risk anymore)

 

[NOMOFO]

Morgan Burnett is making more than the first overall pick, so I would be fine investing the money in a high draft pick (not saying we should trade up or anything like that, just meaning the cap hit for a high draft pick isn't a huge risk anymore)

I'm not even talking about the cap hit specifically. I said many times, I'm fine with a high pick if it's a home run sure bet pick. That's one reason some teams trade out... they don't think there's cost justification.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I'm not even talking about the cap hit specifically. I said many times, I'm fine with a high pick if it's a home run sure bet pick. That's one reason some teams trade out... they don't think there's cost justification.

No, your thinking here is just plain and simple wrong. Before the rookie wage scale was introduced in the new CBA teams didn't want to hold on to their high draft picks because of the financial commitment they had to make to a player who never played a single down in the NFL. But they didn't find another team giving away draft picks and wanting to pay that kind of money to a rookie.

It's totally different now. Teams with a high draft pick can either hold on to their pick and fill obvious needs without having to make a major commitment (see Indy drafting Luck), or trade it away because other teams are willed to give up multiple draft picks to trade up, cause once again, they don't have to screw up their cap for a top pick (see St. Louis trading away their #2 pick to Washington for RGIII, getting three first and a second round pick in return).

 

[NOMOFO]

No, your thinking here is just plain and simple wrong. Before the rookie wage scale was introduced in the new CBA teams didn't want to hold on to their high draft picks because of the financial commitment they had to make to a player who never played a single down in the NFL. But they didn't find another team giving away draft picks and wanting to pay that kind of money to a rookie.

It's totally different now. Teams with a high draft pick can either hold on to their pick and fill obvious needs without having to make a major commitment (see Indy drafting Luck), or trade it away because other teams are willed to give up multiple draft picks to trade up, cause once again, they don't have to screw up their cap for a top pick (see St. Louis trading away their #2 pick to Washington for RGIII, getting three first and a second round pick in return).

I'm not wrong in the least. There's still a larger commitment to early picks than later picks. The slot doesn't change that. They talk about this all the time on and around draft day.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I'm not wrong in the least. There's still a larger commitment to early picks than later picks. The slot doesn't change that. They talk about this all the time on and around draft day.

It would be great if you would admit being wrong at least once. No teams shy away from the financial commitment for a top pick anymore.

Do you realize all of the #1 picks since the rookie wage scale was introduced got less money than Hawk and Raji got in their rookie deals???

The only reason teams trade out of these picks is because they want to get additional picks and don't think a single player at their spot would make a huge impact.

 

[TJV]

I'm not wrong in the least.

No, you are wrong 'in the most'. There's no question the rookie wage scale has dramatically changed how teams view picks at the top of the draft. Andrew Luck signed a 4-year $22.1M contract with a $14.5M signing bonus. Sam Bradford, the top pick in 2010, signed a 6-year, $78M contract with $50M guaranteed. To spell it out for you, regarding the guaranteed money in the two contracts: $50M is more than twice as much as $22.1M. It doesn't matter if you want to admit it or not, any fan with a passing knowledge of the difference the most recent CBA made, knows you're wrong.

 

[GreenDeath]

There isn't a possibility that Clowney and Barr drop down to us. It's a pipe dream, unless we give up the farm(multiple first rounders and 2nd and/or 3rd rounders) we are not moving up into the Top 7 which is where they will almost certainly go.

More realistic targets are Khalil Mack(who might even go ahead of Barr is he blows up the combine, but he's probably going in the top 12) or Louis Nix, the NT from Notre Dame. Both of those guys are day one starters for us and fill a need, especially Nix. I don't see TT breaking the bank to resign Raji.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

There isn't a possibility that Clowney and Barr drop down to us. It's a pipe dream, unless we give up the farm(multiple first rounders and 2nd and/or 3rd rounders) we are not moving up into the Top 7 which is where they will almost certainly go.

More realistic targets are Khalil Mack(who might even go ahead of Barr is he blows up the combine, but he's probably going in the top 12) or Louis Nix, the NT from Notre Dame. Both of those guys are day one starters for us and fill a need, especially Nix. I don't see TT breaking the bank to resign Raji.

Nix is a talented guy, but the knee injury that ended his 2013 season is a big concern for me, especially with our strength and conditioning staff.

 

[GreenDeath]

Nix is a talented guy, but the knee injury that ended his 2013 season is a big concern for me, especially with our strength and conditioning staff.

That's a good point. And with big guys like that, knee injuries are more of a concern because of the amount of force that is cranking on the ligaments and joints every game. It's going to be one of those "is the risk worth the reward" type scenarios. If he passes the medical and he's there at our spot, you almost have to take him if Raji isn't on the roster anymore. Unless we're magically changing to the 4-3, not having a NT in the 3-4 is suicide.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That's a good point. And with big guys like that, knee injuries are more of a concern because of the amount of force that is cranking on the ligaments and joints every game. It's going to be one of those "is the risk worth the reward" type scenarios. If he passes the medical and he's there at our spot, you almost have to take him if Raji isn't on the roster anymore. Unless we're magically changing to the 4-3, not having a NT in the 3-4 is suicide.

I agree that we need a NT cause we're not changing to a 4-3. Maybe Pickett has another productive season in him, don't think there are many other impact NTs as Nix available.

 

[ivo610]

I agree that we need a NT cause we're not changing to a 4-3. Maybe Pickett has another productive season in him, don't think there are many other impact NTs as Nix available.

Hageman some say. i really like the kid out of pitt if you can get over his height.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Hageman some say. i really like the kid out of pitt if you can get over his height.

Hageman's 6-6 and 318, rather have him play DE in a 3-4. Are you talking about Aaron Donald out of Pitt??? That guy weighs 288!!!

 

[ivo610]

Hageman's 6-6 and 318, rather have him play DE in a 3-4. Are you talking about Aaron Donald out of Pitt??? That guy weighs 288!!!

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=64492&draftyear=2010&genpos=DT

Geno is undersized and prob the best player at his position. I think he is a 3rd rd investment.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=64492&draftyear=2010&genpos=DT

Geno is undersized and prob the best player at his position. I think he is a 3rd rd investment.

You know the Bengals play a 4-3 defense, don't you???

 

[ivo610]

You know the Bengals play a 4-3 defense, don't you???

What about it? You dont think a player like geno would be successful on the line in either the 3-4 or 4-3? Obviously he would need to move around.

 

[GreenDeath]

Hageman's 6-6 and 318, rather have him play DE in a 3-4. Are you talking about Aaron Donald out of Pitt??? That guy weighs 288!!!

Yeah, a 6'6 guy playing NT seems iffy. Not sure how he would be able to get leverage on those linemen in the run game. Although, I do believe there is currently a 6'5 or 6'6 nose tackle who was starting for someone this year. His name completely escapes me at the moment, but from all accounts he wasn't a major liability.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

What about it? You dont think a player like geno would be successful on the line in either the 3-4 or 4-3? Obviously he would need to move around.

He would for sure not play NT in a 3-4 defense.

 

[GreenDeath]

What about it? You dont think a player like geno would be successful on the line in either the 3-4 or 4-3? Obviously he would need to move around.

Geno Atkins would need to put on another 25-30 pounds to potentially be a nose tackle. He's just wayyyy too small at this stage. Donald as well, he's only 288 pounds. They are prototypical 3 techniques. Just stand a guy like Vince Wilfork beside Geno Atkins and you'll see the difference.

 

[packfan1]

Maybe we will find the next Nick Perry, Mike Neal, Morgan Burnett or Bj Raji with all those picks! oh wait?? =/

These players mentioned are not bad players. Neal had 5 sacks first year at OLB. Hope he is resigned. Perry showed he is better at ROLB and made a few impact plays. Raji has talent no question...for whatever reason he didn't have the stats. He had flashes here and there and I would agree that he didn't show up a lot of times last season. Burnett needs a counterpart at the other S position...he is a good player and good tackler. He had 96 last year 2nd on the team. Defense has to have 2 VERSATILE safteys though so that the opposing offense doesn't know what each safety is going to do pre-snap. Burnett I'm thinking had to play closer to the LOS due to the undersized Jennings given our run defense struggled some as the DL got nicked up (Jolly-IR and Picketts knee) There's no guarantee with Barr either. Good players-pro bowl players have been found much later in the draft and the more picks you have the better your chances. Drafting that high also means you pay more $ which means less $ for other players we need to sign moving forward. I like your urgency for the team to get better, but IMO we need every pick we get. I would rather take Shazier at 21 in the first. He can run, tackle and cover well and wouldn't cost more than 1 pick. Take Buchannon or the best available at S in the 2nd.

 

[ivo610]

Geno Atkins would need to put on another 25-30 pounds to potentially be a nose tackle. He's just wayyyy too small at this stage. Donald as well, he's only 288 pounds. They are prototypical 3 techniques. Just stand a guy like Vince Wilfork beside Geno Atkins and you'll see the difference.

You don't think you could effectively use a geno on the packers?

 

[packfan1]

I'll admit i'm wrong..if i'm wrong. I'm not wrong about TT, the guy doesn't like to sign free agents and would rather build through the draft. The niners are a better team than the Packers right now regardless of the 2010 season...funny how people like you won't talk about 2011 to present tho. Talk about skewing facts to prove a point kettle. TT hasn't drafted well in the first round in like 4 yrs..true. The Packers have been terrible in the playoffs the past 4 yrs..very true. I know i know.. we beat the Vikings with a backup quarterback yea yea. I don't hate the guy because i'm listing FACTS. Prove to me where what i've said isn't true and is just hatred for TT. Call it what you want to but just because im not in the Teddy fan club doesn't mean i hate the guy. So as the president of the TT fanclub spread the word haha.

Two words: Salary Cap. If you look at the 49ers...yes they have a couple guys they signed free agents that worked out, but the core of their team is through the draft as I see it. Kapernick, Iupati, Davis(RT), Reid, Bowman, Willis, Davis(TE), Crabtree, and Aldon Smith. Not sure but I think Staley and Gore were also drafted. Iupati was a big loss for them -once he exited the Seattle game the 49ers had trouble running the ball. Don't forget we lost by ONLY 3 and Hyde was a fingertip from the INT which would have given us the ball LAST and given us the likely win. We held them to 23 points and that loss was more on the offense. Although history has shown the way to beat Rodgers is to only rush 4 and play coverageHopefully our OTs getting healthy negates this scheme and gives Rodgers the 1-2 more seconds he needs to find the open WR with 7 in coverage. Also would you rather sign a blockbuster deal with a free agent, or sign Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb coming up. Not to mention Sam Shields. TT signs free agents when he needs to...not as option #1 as many times you can find people in the draft to fill holes for WAY cheaper...which then allows you to sign the good core players on your OWN team.