Minny's Return To Mediocrity Imminent As Packers Set Stage For 2010 Repeat

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PackerfaninCarolina

PackerfaninCarolina

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Look at it this way. In 2017 the Vikings QB's took up 14.67% of their cap space. In 2018 that number will be 15.47% of cap space. For an increase of .8% of cap space by signing Cousins.

I'm guessing that's cuz they've decided to go with Hundley-esque backups behind him
 
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PackerfaninCarolina

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I think Cousins has a good arm and is able to hit his receivers. I believe he was mainly playing from behind and that will inflate his stats. The defenses will be more conservative and he will be throwing more. So maybe it is too early to tell exactly how good he can be. But the little I watched him play; he looked good to me. I don't put much stock in the fact that the Redskins did not resign him as their owner seems to be control freak. Personally, I would rather have Cousins than Smith.

That there says it all and only confirms my evaluation of him.
 
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Look at the yardage that Cousins put up in Washington compared to Keenum. It's not even close. Keenum was a game manager, the offense never went through him. Cousins was Washington's offense,and now he joins a better WR group, coaching staff, and one of the most talented young RBs in the league returning from injury. I agree with the points that Cousins isn't elite, but I think people are in denial about the issues this causes for us.

I fully expect the Vikings to present a tough opponent for the Packers over the next few years. I'm not convinced their offense will significantly improve because of having Cousins starting at quarterback now.
 

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C-level QB whose value is heavily overrated.
Gotta love your pessimism. Way over rated.

The last 3 years.

Code:
         W  L T   Cmp   Att   Cmp%    Yds    TD    TD%    Int  Int%     Y/A   YPG
Cousins  24 23 1  1132   1689 67.0%   13176  81    4.8%    36   2.1%    7.7   274
Brady    36  8 0  1078   1637 63.9%   12901  96    5.9%    17   1.0%    7.9   293
Rodgers  24 15 0   902   1420 64.5%    9924  87    6.1%    21   1.5%    7.9   254
Brees    25 22 0  1285   1836 70.0%   14412  92    5.0%    34   1.9%    7.8   307
 

Patriotplayer90

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Gotta love your pessimism. Way over rated.

The last 3 years.

Code:
         W  L T   Cmp   Att   Cmp%    Yds    TD    TD%    Int  Int%     Y/A   YPG
Cousins  24 23 1  1132   1689 67.0%   13176  81    4.8%    36   2.1%    7.7   274
Brady    36  8 0  1078   1637 63.9%   12901  96    5.9%    17   1.0%    7.9   293
Rodgers  24 15 0   902   1420 64.5%    9924  87    6.1%    21   1.5%    7.9   254
Brees    25 22 0  1285   1836 70.0%   14412  92    5.0%    34   1.9%    7.8   307
By this board's standard, Brees is not a franchise or elite QB since he's only been to one playoff series in the past three years and barely has a winning record.
 
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Gotta love your pessimism. Way over rated.

The last 3 years.

Code:
         W  L T   Cmp   Att   Cmp%    Yds    TD    TD%    Int  Int%     Y/A   YPG
Cousins  24 23 1  1132   1689 67.0%   13176  81    4.8%    36   2.1%    7.7   274
Brady    36  8 0  1078   1637 63.9%   12901  96    5.9%    17   1.0%    7.9   293
Rodgers  24 15 0   902   1420 64.5%    9924  87    6.1%    21   1.5%    7.9   254
Brees    25 22 0  1285   1836 70.0%   14412  92    5.0%    34   1.9%    7.8   307

Cousins has the lowest TD percentage and yards per attempt as well as the highest interception percentage out of that group. He's defintely not an elite quarterback.

What is even more important in my opinion is that when you compare his numbers to those of Keenum last season the Vikings might not even get improved quarterback play going forward.
 
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By this board's standard, Brees is not a franchise or elite QB since he's only been to one playoff series in the past three years and barely has a winning record.

Brees has won 57.3% of the games he started and has a ring though. In addition the Saints have finished in the top 10 in points scored 10 out of 12 seasons. He's definitely elite.

Washington on the other hand ranked 10th, 12th and 16th during Cousins three seasons as the starter.
 

Patriotplayer90

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Cousins has the lowest TD percentage and yards per attempt as well as the highest interception percentage out of that group. He's defintely not an elite quarterback.

What is even more important in my opinion is that when you compare his numbers to those of Keenum last season the Vikings might not even get improved quarterback play going forward.
Please, try looking at a stat other than QB rating. Keenum threw for 3.5K yards last year, which does not even compare to Cousins. That's like comparing Dak Prescott to Drew Brees by using QB rating only. He was efficient in terms of TD/INT ratio, but there is a reason why they led the league in carries despite not being particularly good at running the ball. Now they have a QB who can actually move the ball down the field, and unlike Keenun, he's done so consistently over the past few years, and you know what to expect. .
 
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Please, try looking at a stat other than QB rating. Keenum threw for 3.5K yards last year, which does not even compare to Cousins. That's like comparing Dak Prescott to Drew Brees by using QB rating only. He was efficient in terms of TD/INT ratio, but there is a reason why they led the league in carries despite not being particularly good at running the ball. Now they have a QB who can actually move the ball down the field, and unlike Keenun, he's done so consistently over the past few years, and you know what to expect. .

Total passing yards is a terrible metric to measure a quarterback's success. You can twist and wiggle it as much as you like but Keenum was very efficient last season and I'm not convinced Cousins will be a significant upgrade.
 

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Total passing yards is a terrible metric to measure a quarterback's success. You can twist and wiggle it as much as you like but Keenum was very efficient last season and I'm not convinced Cousins will be a significant upgrade.
By that logic, let's go get Latavius Murray instead of LeSean McCoy. He had more rushing TDs, and that's all that matters, right? CaptainWINN logic, FTW!!!
 
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By that logic, let's go get Latavius Murray instead of LeSean McCoy. He had more rushing TDs, and that's all that matters, right? CaptainWINN logic, FTW!!!

I was obviously talking about quarterback efficiency, not sure what rushing touchdowns have to do with that.

BTW it's WIMM for you, sir ;)
 

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I was obviously talking about quarterback efficiency, not sure what rushing touchdowns have to do with that.

BTW it's WIMM for you, sir ;)
You are Captain WIN, because you always have the right answer.

Cousins hasn't been as efficient as elite QBs, but his QB rating was still in the high 90s over the past 3 seasons on a team which hasn't had a consistently good QB in decades, including a 5,000 yard season. A QB like him hitting FA is extremely rare, which is why teams were lining up to throw money at him, and Keenum had far fewer takers.

Keenum is a game manager. If he can consistently put up those efficiency numbers, then a team could certainly do much worse. But as we have seen with T. Taylor and Alex Smith, when a team has a QB who is efficient but unable to generate much yardage, teams tend to long for more.

I view Cousins the same way the I view Stafford. He does not scare you on an average team, but I certainly do not want to see him join the Vikings. Didn't he have nearly 400 yards and a 145 QB rating against us in 2016? And now he's on a better team..
 
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You are Captain WIN, because you always have the right answer.

Cousins hasn't been as efficient as elite QBs, but his QB rating was still in the high 90s over the past 3 seasons on a team which hasn't had a consistently good QB in decades, including a 5,000 yard season. A QB like him hitting FA is extremely rare, which is why teams were lining up to throw money at him, and Keenum had far fewer takers.

Keenum is a game manager. If he can consistently put up those efficiency numbers, then a team could certainly do much worse. But as we have seen with T. Taylor and Alex Smith, when a team has a QB who is efficient but unable to generate much yardage, teams tend to long for more.

I view Cousins the same way the I view Stafford. He does not scare you on an average team, but I certainly do not want to see him join the Vikings. Didn't he have nearly 400 yards and a 145 QB rating against us in 2016? And now he's on a better team..

That there is your problem, you keep mistakenly believing Keenum's role is game manager. Game managers don't make high-risk throws like what he was doing last year.
 
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Please, try looking at a stat other than QB rating. Keenum threw for 3.5K yards last year, which does not even compare to Cousins. That's like comparing Dak Prescott to Drew Brees by using QB rating only. He was efficient in terms of TD/INT ratio, but there is a reason why they led the league in carries despite not being particularly good at running the ball. Now they have a QB who can actually move the ball down the field, and unlike Keenun, he's done so consistently over the past few years, and you know what to expect. .

4 QBs were in that list and Cousins has the most losses and ints tossed out of all of them.
 

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That there is your problem, you keep mistakenly believing Keenum's role is game manager. Game managers don't make high-risk throws like what he was doing last year.
Game managers throw for 3.5K yards and play in offenses with the most rushing attempts, even though their RBs are average at best and they had the best WR duo in the league. Open your eyes.
4 QBs were in that list and Cousins has the most losses and ints tossed out of all of them.
You mean Cousins isn't as good as 3 of the best QBs of all time? Alert the presses!!!
 
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Game managers throw for 3.5K yards

If that's the barometer for being a game manager, I'd sure like to know how Joe Flacco and Jameis Winston keep their jobs.

Also, maybe now everyone can agree Brett Hundley is the hottest pile of garbage in NFL history since he played 10 games and didn't come anywhere near to getting half of that yardage.
 

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Case Keenum played really well last season and that was largely because Pat Shurmur is one of the best offensive minds in football. That being said, Defilipo has shown to be pretty brilliant as well over the last couple seasons and the Vikings offense shouldn't miss a beat.

I think it is largely a mistake to point towards Cousins last 3 seasons as a trend of what he is going to look like in MN. And the comparison between Keenum and him is largely silly. Cousins has a much better arm and his passes are much more effortless. You put him together with a Defilipo offense and he could certainly limit the INT's. You also give him arguably his best offensive weapons he has ever had. Theilen, Diggs, Rudolph, and Cook. Murray as the power runner coming off the bench. They upgraded Wright WR's for depth. We haven't even gotten into the draft yet. And one of the leagues top defenses to boot in order to take a lot of the pressure off of him. Cousins will upgrade this offense. The efficiency might not be largely evident as Keenum was efficient under the helm. But he will provide the ability to spread the ball around in a variety of different ways and make it harder for defenses to limit.
 

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Keeping their guys will be expensive as just evidenced by Eric Kendricks getting 5 years 50 million with 25 million guaranteed. Makes him the 4th highest per year paid ilb in the NFL. He has the second most guaranteed money. Kendricks graded out as the 36th best lb last year and got an Average grade from PFF. I know PFF isnt the end all be all but Martinez and Ryan both graded out a decent amount higher. I understand systems are different just giving some data for the signing and how much guys are costing these days.
 

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Keeping their guys will be expensive as just evidenced by Eric Kendricks getting 5 years 50 million with 25 million guaranteed. Makes him the 4th highest per year paid ilb in the NFL. He has the second most guaranteed money. Kendricks graded out as the 36th best lb last year and got an Average grade from PFF. I know PFF isnt the end all be all but Martinez and Ryan both graded out a decent amount higher. I understand systems are different just giving some data for the signing and how much guys are costing these days.

Same type of money we will be looking to give Martinez next season unless by chance we pick Roquan Smith/Tremaine Edmunds/Leighton Vander Esch/Rashad Evans with one of our first 2 picks. Then again we probably still give him that money depending on what happens with Clay next season any of those 4 guys could end up moving outside and providing the hybrid role Matthews has over the last few seasons.
 

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Same type of money we will be looking to give Martinez next season unless by chance we pick Roquan Smith/Tremaine Edmunds/Leighton Vander Esch/Rashad Evans with one of our first 2 picks.

If that is the case the Packers need to begin the process of finding another middle linebacker. It is hard to justify 10 million a year for Martinez. I know PFF had him rated highly but is he worth that. I think Kendricks is rated a little too low by PFF but I dont think he is worth the per year and guaranteed money he just got
 

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If that is the case the Packers need to begin the process of finding another middle linebacker. It is hard to justify 10 million a year for Martinez. I know PFF had him rated highly but is he worth that. I think Kendricks is rated a little too low by PFF but I dont think he is worth the per year and guaranteed money he just got

Going to be some hard decisions next season. If Martinez continues to improve he justifies the pay day. Matthews is playing on the final year of his contract this season. Jake Ryan is on his final year of his rookie deal. This is why I think the Packers will be running to the podium if Roquan Smith or Tremaine Edmunds falls to 14.
 

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Case Keenum played really well last season and that was largely because Pat Shurmur is one of the best offensive minds in football. That being said, Defilipo has shown to be pretty brilliant as well over the last couple seasons and the Vikings offense shouldn't miss a beat.
I think it is largely a mistake to point towards Cousins last 3 seasons as a trend of what he is going to look like in MN. And the comparison between Keenum and him is largely silly. Cousins has a much better arm and his passes are much more effortless. You put him together with a Defilipo offense and he could certainly limit the INT's. You also give him arguably his best offensive weapons he has ever had. Theilen, Diggs, Rudolph, and Cook. Murray as the power runner coming off the bench. They upgraded Wright WR's for depth. We haven't even gotten into the draft yet. And one of the leagues top defenses to boot in order to take a lot of the pressure off of him. Cousins will upgrade this offense. The efficiency might not be largely evident as Keenum was efficient under the helm. But he will provide the ability to spread the ball around in a variety of different ways and make it harder for defenses to limit.
Well remember now, when Keenum took over everyone was saying that the Vikings would be lucky to make it to .500.
 

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Esseentually the only 4 in the league. Sorry, I compared him to the top 3 QB's in the league. Maybe I should have put him up against Flacco, Smith and Ryan.

that's where i'd put him, although Ryan I'd say is the best of that bunch. You could even put Ryan up in the Brady-Rodgers-Brees group. I also think that Russell Wilson deserves to be in that 2nd group. As surprisingly good as Keenum was last year, it's kind of hard to argue that Cousins does not represent an upgrade at QB.
 

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