Minny's Return To Mediocrity Imminent As Packers Set Stage For 2010 Repeat

[Deleted member 6794]

Probably depends how deep we go at the position.

Compare the top 3 and I think it easily gb. The Vikings number 3 wr had 20 catches.
The Packers number 3 wr was Nelson with 53.

Theilen and Diggs had a better year than Adams and Cobb or Nelson but when add the 3rd wr who is often on the field and the fact that Rodgers will be qb instead of hundley it changes. What would have theilen and Diggs numbers looked like with hundley?

Through games with Rodgers Jordy was on pace for 76 catches 920 yards and 24 tds (obviously that would have went down) over 16 games
Through 4 games with Cobb was on pace for 92 catches for 872 and 3 tds over 16 games

I would take Adams Nelson Cobb over Theilen Diggs Wright for next year and I think theilen is very good.

The Vikings definitely don't have a decent #3 wide receiver but in my opinion their top two are better than any combination of Adams with either Nelson or Cobb.

 

[Half Empty]

The Vikings definitely don't have a decent #3 wide receiver but in my opinion their top two are better than any combination of Adams with either Nelson or Cobb.

Always refreshing to see someone note that discussions like this are completely subjective.

 

[bigbubbatd]

The Vikings definitely don't have a decent #3 wide receiver but in my opinion their top two are better than any combination of Adams with either Nelson or Cobb.

I agree. I just think went comparing groups you compare the whole and since 3 wr sets are the norm in the NFL you have to look at top 3 in my mind and if you take that into effect than gbs wr are better than Minnesota in my mind. I also wonder if the Jordy we see next year (if he is a packer) will be closer to the one we saw with Rodgers or the one we saw with hundley. If it the one we saw with Rodgers the Adams Nelson combo is just fine for a 1/2 punch

 

[PackAttack12]

I still say it's 100% Brett Hundley's fault Cobb had a bad year.

Cobb would have had a better year with Rodgers behind center, without question. However, Brett Hundley didn't stop Davante Adams from continuing to make a difference.

It's alarming to me that no one outside of Adams was able to produce with a less than HOF QB.

 

[PackAttack12]

And finished 4-2 with Rodgers as starter which is why the fictional story of the Packers in rebuild mode has holes shot in it.

The Packers are not in rebuilding mode, but the team's performance without Rodgers is concerning to say the least. Hopefully a lot of the defensive issues were due to scheme/coaching, but there's also a talent issue that needs to be addressed if the Packers want a legitimate shot at competing for a Super Bowl. Key additions will need to be made in this draft, and in free agency in order to accomplish this. Perhaps even a trade or two of some nature.

Here's to hoping for BGK have an aggressive method of improving the team this offseason.

 

[El Guapo]

The Vikings are a better team than the Packers. As someone accurately noted, we just have the best QB. Thielen is better than Nelson, mostly because he is younger and Nelson is (IMO) past his prime. Diggs and Adams are close but I've seen bigger games out of Diggs. We do have better #3 and #4 WRs. Their RBs are slightly better, our OL is better, and their entire defense is better than ours. Their defensive coach is better, and before Shurmer departed, I would have said that their offense is better.

Their team has subsisted for years with mediocre QB play. Their strength is defense and Dalvin Cook is for real. If he comes back strong after his ACL, they will be a threat no matter who is at QB. The word from pundits is that they will franchise tag Keenum and keep Bridgewater. I think they will be just fine at QB, depending on who the new offensive coordinator is.

Their entire team played poorly in the NFCCG outside of Kendricks and Keenum. Speaking of Kendricks, he's pretty amazing. Also on that defense is Barr, Linval Joseph, Everson Griffen, Harrison Smith, and Xavier Rhodes. That team has at least two legit playmakers at all three levels of their defense. The big key for them this year was that their average offensive line stayed mostly healthy and kept their QBs upright and free of constant pressure.

The reality is that the Packers likely would have won the NFC North had Rodgers been healthy. I think that will be the case next season as well but Minnesota will be nipping at our heals.

 

[Mondio]

I hope they Franchise Keenum. That would be sweet.

 

[swhitset]

Cobb would have had a better year with Rodgers behind center, without question. However, Brett Hundley didn't stop Davante Adams from continuing to make a difference.

It's alarming to me that no one outside of Adams was able to produce with a less than HOF QB.

Hundley barely even looked at anyone but Adams. Frankly, Although I like Adams, I am more afraid of a regression with him next year after signing the big contract than I am about Jordy or Cobb (although one or both of the latter two may be gone due to contract numbers anyway).

 

[PackAttack12]

Hundley barely even looked at anyone but Adams. Frankly, Although I like Adams, I am more afraid of a regression with him next year after signing the big contract than I am about Jordy or Cobb (although one or both of the latter two may be gone due to contract numbers anyway).

Both Cobb and Nelson had 44 targets a piece in the 8 full games that Hundley started. Hundley was definitely looking Adams' way a lot, but a lot of that has to do with him actually being open.

Cobb and Nelson had opportunities to be productive.

 

[GBkrzygrl]

I still say it's 100% Brett Hundley's fault Cobb had a bad year.

And Nelson as well. Jordy was playing well with Aaron.

 

[swhitset]

Both Cobb and Nelson had 44 targets a piece in the 8 full games that Hundley started. Hundley was definitely looking Adams' way a lot, but a lot of that has to do with him actually being open.

Cobb and Nelson had opportunities to be productive.

"Targets" is a statistic... I watched the games. When the ball is nowhere near the receiver... that is not an opportunity.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

"Targets" is a statistic... I watched the games. When the ball is nowhere near the receiver... that is not an opportunity.

Not to mention some of those targets turned TD passes to Adams that Hundley threw were blown coverages on him. This to me puts all the offensive problems even supposed receivers not getting open squarely on Hundley's head.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I agree. I just think went comparing groups you compare the whole and since 3 wr sets are the norm in the NFL you have to look at top 3 in my mind and if you take that into effect than gbs wr are better than Minnesota in my mind.

In that case it might make more sense to take a look at the entire group of pass catchers on both rosters. With Rudolph and McKinnon the Vikings still hold the edge in my opinion.

 

[bigbubbatd]

In that case it might make more sense to take a look at the entire group of pass catchers on both rosters. With Rudolph and McKinnon the Vikings still hold the edge in my opinion.

That makes sense. Our tes definitely need improvement. Actually think Williams is very solid receiving back Abe McKinnon is a free agent. Although cook was really good as a wr I think too. All it would be are in my mind for the Packers to overtake this category is a solid te. In Richard Rodgers best year his stats matched Rudolph from this year

 

[PackAttack12]

"Targets" is a statistic... I watched the games. When the ball is nowhere near the receiver... that is not an opportunity.

So Adams was the only player on the roster that was given passes that were catchable?

 

[Mondio]

So Adams was the only player on the roster that was given passes that were catchable?

oh no, everyone played their part in this season. Hundley isn't a pinpoint passer, but he did have some great throws that weren't caught. He had your normal every play every day type throws that weren't caught either. He had some really crap *** games, no way around. But there were also games like that MN game where nobody helped him out at all either and all they had to do was make the routine play. His numbers looked terrible, they should have been better with nothing more than people making routine plays. and guys that should like Jordy. You can't play like that as supporting cast when you have a back up. They didn't always, sometimes it was squarely on Hundley though. I remember the classic play action to Jordy deep and he over threw him by 10 yards wide open, I remember another one where he wasn't open at all, 2 defenders just waiting for it and he threw it anyway and it was picked. It wasn't all hundley, and it wasn't all receivers. They all played their part.

 

[PackAttack12]

oh no, everyone played their part in this season. Hundley isn't a pinpoint passer, but he did have some great throws that weren't caught. He had your normal every play every day type throws that weren't caught either. He had some really crap *** games, no way around. But there were also games like that MN game where nobody helped him out at all either and all they had to do was make the routine play. His numbers looked terrible, they should have been better with nothing more than people making routine plays. and guys that should like Jordy. You can't play like that as supporting cast when you have a back up. They didn't always, sometimes it was squarely on Hundley though. I remember the classic play action to Jordy deep and he over threw him by 10 yards wide open, I remember another one where he wasn't open at all, 2 defenders just waiting for it and he threw it anyway and it was picked. It wasn't all hundley, and it wasn't all receivers. They all played their part.

Absolutely agree.

Which goes to my point that, in the Hundley offense, Adams was the only player to really standout in regards to pass catchers. Adams has turned into the only guy that can really create separation and make plays.

I'm fine with keeping Jordy and/or Cobb under the right circumstances. Jordy moreso than Cobb just because of the freakish wavelength he has with Rodgers. That's something that cannot be replaced. I could see Jordy taking more snaps from the slot next season, particularly in the 4th quarter of big games where we have to have a conversion to extend drives.

Keeping all three however with their cap numbers just isn't feasible if we're serious about upgrading the rest of the roster, IMO.

 

[Mondio]

Adams in 2 steps beats a lot of guys, but he's too slow to play WR.

I go back and forth on the receivers to keep or not. It depends if they try and position to pick up a lot of guys or not? I know it will drive some crazy, but I can see letting them all play out their contracts this year and using a lot of draft capital either in lots of picks or moving to the guys they really want and giving them a year to develop let the big contracts come off "naturally" so to speak and then make moves next year when they have given their young guys time to develop a season and they know what they want to do.

Or if they want to get some guys this year, the have to make room. I'm also inclined to keep Jordy over Cobb for this season. I just don't see a lot of help coming in FA with a quick glance, but it doesnt pay now anyway until tags and things come out. I think we have a lot of good players, but I don't think we can get it all there with just FA, even with letting guys go, it creates holes and doesn't leave us that much to work with. and draft picks almost always need a season or 2 before they can be relied upon heavily. I'm on a 2 year plan, a 1 year if we have some really good luck.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That makes sense. Our tes definitely need improvement. Actually think Williams is very solid receiving back Abe McKinnon is a free agent. Although cook was really good as a wr I think too. All it would be are in my mind for the Packers to overtake this category is a solid te. In Richard Rodgers best year his stats matched Rudolph from this year

With Nelson getting up there in age and Cobb having struggled for the past few years the Packers might need a solid #2 receiver pretty soon as well.

 

[bigbubbatd]

With Nelson getting up there in age and Cobb having struggled for the past few years the Packers might need a solid #2 receiver pretty soon as well.

I agree with that. I actually think wr is 4th on the needs list this off season behind olb, cb, and te. You could argue safety and guard as well but I would out wr above them. I think you can find good slot wrs in the middle rounds it is the outside spot opposite Adams that worries men going forward. It is also why I hope the Packers can use free agency to address cb, olb or te bc then wr can get moved up in the draft

 

[Raptorman]

2018 is going to be one of the best years to be a Packer fan as once again the Vikings get their hopes dashed on the rocks even worse than what happened in 2009 in Favre's last stand. This ladies and gentlemen was a worse defeat for them than what happened to us against Atlanta last year because we came into that game with the league's worst defense knowing we were going to have to repeat the 1984 shootout against Washington to win it, and even with Rodgers scoring 45 points a game is a tall order. The Vikings do not have this excuse having come into this game with the league's best defense and not having to cover Julio Jones plus playing against backup Nick Foles and an offense that had not scored a TD since Wentz went down, and they got their @sses beat down so bad, the smoke and mirrors show came to an end on national television.

The definitive proof in the Vikings going downhill fast this next year can be found in what happened to the 2015 Panthers dropping from 15-1 to 6-10 after every single expert crowned them a deadlock to get back to the NFC Championship and they crashed and burned so bad they officially became the NFL's biggest joke team. Similarly, the 2015 Arizona Cardinals also were a big old fail in 2016, and we also must not forget what happened to America's 2016 Dallas Cowboys also going bad in 2017 and not even making the playoffs. The Vikings have less talent than all of those three teams and have followed up winning seasons with losing ones every year since the 1970s. Plus Case Keenum doesn't have Cam Newton or Dak Prescott's talents and is in a QB competition still with Sam Bradford who Zigi Wilf has broken the bank on. And just as Kelvin Benjamin failed to save the Panthers season in 2016, so shall Dalvin Cook fail to do so upon returning in 2018.

Meantime the Packers fortunes are about to surge upward in 2018 with not only the return of Aaron Rodgers behind center, but a new and improved OL, Aaron Jones set to break Ahman Green's records, a new GM who is going to be using our high draft picks to bring Rodgers a stockpile of weapons, and of course the work of Mike Pettine who's going to be making this defense an instant superbowl contending machine.

Also, gotta love our schedule with the only tough games being in the Patriots', Seahawks' and Rams' houses and the rest all being games we got in the bag.

Wow. You are so right. Although you forgot a team as to how things can go downhill fast. The 2007 Packers were 13-3 and then in 2008 with Rodgers a the helm they went 6-10. Just goes to show how a change in QB can effect a team. And if Keenum is with the Vikings next year I'm sure we will see a similar fall off. After all, it is the Vikings.

 

[GBkrzygrl]

Adams in 2 steps beats a lot of guys, but he's too slow to play WR.

I go back and forth on the receivers to keep or not. It depends if they try and position to pick up a lot of guys or not? I know it will drive some crazy, but I can see letting them all play out their contracts this year and using a lot of draft capital either in lots of picks or moving to the guys they really want and giving them a year to develop let the big contracts come off "naturally" so to speak and then make moves next year when they have given their young guys time to develop a season and they know what they want to do.

Or if they want to get some guys this year, the have to make room. I'm also inclined to keep Jordy over Cobb for this season. I just don't see a lot of help coming in FA with a quick glance, but it doesnt pay now anyway until tags and things come out. I think we have a lot of good players, but I don't think we can get it all there with just FA, even with letting guys go, it creates holes and doesn't leave us that much to work with. and draft picks almost always need a season or 2 before they can be relied upon heavily. I'm on a 2 year plan, a 1 year if we have some really good luck.

I think someone mentioned earlier about chemistry. We all know that Aaron has to trust you or you don't get the ball. It takes a while to build chemistry. That's why I feel almost positive that Jordy will be back. If they are serious about making a run next season they are not going to want to be breaking in new WR's.

 

[OldSchool101]

First of all I wouldn't bank on the Vikings laying down in 2018, I think they will remain our primary threat this year again. They have 2X the salary Cap we have and if Cook can regain his pre-injury form he is going to also be a factor. If they regress substantially it will more than likely be in 2019 or beyond.

However you want to cut it the Queens blew a major opportunity. A year where Aaron Rodgers is hurt and the no.1 seeded team is playing a backup QB. Throw in the fluke play last week against the Saints and the possibility of hosting there own team in the Super Bowl and I don't know how much more it will ever be that set up for them again.

Catastrophic Fail!

I do agree with that. Not to toot our own horn but getting #12 back on the field and any improvement whatsoever in the Packer Defense will make the scenario of the Vikings beating GB twice in that fashion (or at all) very unlikely. Our division is a completely different animal with a healthy AR and this year was like a gift wrapped with pretty paper, with a bow and a nice card with a stack of cash in it. We're going for broke now, we're going to cancel Christmas on the Vikings next year and I wouldn't be surprised if they melt like Frosty in a Greenhouse (I won't be crying this time tho)

Key additions will need to be made in this draft, and in free agency in order to accomplish this. Perhaps even a trade or two of some nature.

I think this is one of the primary strategies that led to TT's being pushed aside

 

[rodell330]

Have to disagree with this. As long as you can play defense in this league, you’re going to win. Minnesota has a young great defense. We just need to keep Rodgers healthy and build up our own damn defense.

 

[Jed12]

I don’t we are in rebuild mode as said above but I don’t think the Vikings are any less talented than us really?

QB goes without saying but that Defense is elite and the receivers are on par with our own. I think they will go back to Teddy and will look pretty good when Cook is taking hand off’s again but let’s not forget McKinnon and Murray didn’t do a bad job.

I like the coaching changes we have made and most importantly the GM. If we want to go from massive flop to where we belong in the playoffs they have a lot of work to do in FA and the draft