Mike Pennel suspended four games

[GreenBaySlacker]

we need to look at the common thread here. First Guion, then Jones, and now Pennel.

Anybody else thinkin maybe Trvogic is a drug kingpin and uses his DL as muscle?

As far as this discussion of them being like normal people, most of us dont sign an agreement saying we wont. Nor are we risking our careers if we do. They are entertainers whose public image is vital to NFL sucess.

Yea but weed is awesome...

 

[El Guapo]

Everyone here seems to have gotten on a marijuana tangent. It's important to point out that there has been no word about his specific violation. I merely implied that if it was weed that I wasn't as concerned. CaptainWIMM correctly pointed out that nothing is confirmed and that there is a good chance that it was something worse.

Either way, we've lost an ascending player at a point where he should be either taking a step forward or plateauing. Hopefully he takes this league sanction seriously and commits himself fully to playing and being his best.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Everyone here seems to have gotten on a marijuana tangent. It's important to point out that there has been no word about his specific violation. I merely implied that if it was weed that I wasn't as concerned. CaptainWIMM correctly pointed out that nothing is confirmed and that there is a good chance that it was something worse.

There's a chance it could be something worse, but I'd not call it a good chance. Weed seems to be particularly popular in the game today. When word does occasionally come out about the drug in question, usually when there is a bust, it seems weed is most frequently the culprit.

It's reasonable to make a default conjecture of weed until proven otherwise. Or the first strike that got him in the program was pot and the second strike that earned the suspension could have been alcohol over 0.06% which would not earn a DUI bust in many states.

Here's the list of banned non-performance enhancing drugs listed in the CBA, which is notable as much for what is not included as for is:

Benzoylecognine (cocaine) ≥ 150 ng/mL
Delta 9-THC-carboxylic acid (marijuana) ≥ 35 ng/mL
Amphetamine and its analogues ≥ 300 ng/mL
Opiates (total morphine and codeine) ≥ 300 ng/mL
Opioids (e.g., hydrocodone, oxycodone) ≥ 300 ng/mL
Phencyclidine (PCP) ≥ 25 ng/mL
Methylenedioxymethamphetamine ("MDMA") and its analogues ≥ 200 ng/mL [that's ecstacy or moly]
Alcohol ≥ .06 g/dl (%)

Alcohol is prohibited only if a Player’s Treatment Plan explicitly prohibits alcohol, but all Players in Intervention Stages are tested for alcohol for clinical monitoring purposes.3 Discipline for alcohol use is imposed only if a Player’s Treatment Plan prohibits alcohol.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

There's a chance it could be something worse, but I'd not call it a good chance. Weed seems to be particularly popular in the game today. When word does occasionally come out about the drug in question, usually when there is a bust, it seems weed is most frequently the drug in question.

It's reasonable to make a default conjecture of weed until proven otherwise. Or the first strike that got him in the program was pot and the second strike that earned the suspension could have been alcohol over 0.06% which would not earn a DUI bust in many states.

If Pennel got suspended because of using marijuana he was already caught for the fourth time since entering the league. The Journal Sentinel mentioned in an article that the four game suspension indicates it was for a harsher drug. It's possible they know that he hasn't previously be fined by the league.

 

[HardRightEdge]

If Pennel got suspended because of using marijuana he was already caught for the fourth time since entering the league. The Journal Sentinel mentioned in an article that the four game suspension indicates it was for a harsher drug. It's possible they know that he hasn't previously be fined by the league.

While I got the sequence wrong, the JS article did not say what you said. The article is also misleading in its incompleteness.

In the absence of procedural violations, an alcohol issue or a behavioral issue, you are correct that 2nd. and 3rd. violations for pot result in only fines, with a 4 game suspension at the 4th. violation.

What neither you nor the JS article said is that for non-performance enhancing drugs other than pot, the 4 game suspension comes with a 3rd. violation.

The mere fact of a 4 game suspension is not compelling one way or the other.

Now, I'm sure hints and rumors about who uses what and when swirl around the clubhouse and front office. If the JS writer got a whiff of something and means to provide a hint, that's anybody's guess.

I find it a reasonable conjecture, as I said before, though not a certainty which I did not suggest, that the issue is pot because of the reported prevalence of it's usage.

There is a another consideration as well. Though the science is not precise, for a heavy pot user THC could take as long as 3 months to pass a urine test. For codeine, to take one example, it could be just a few days to clear in a urine test. I don't see anything indicating the NFL uses anything but urine tests. In other words, a pot user is more likely to be caught than users of other drugs.

Of course getting arrested (as in the cases of Jones, Guion or Jolly) is a different situation going to the policy of "conduct unbecoming".

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The simple message here is, if you want to play in the NFL, you play by the set rules. If you don't know the rules, hire someone who can coach you on them. If you can't live by the rules, hire a baby sitter. While some of us may not agree with the rules, they are what they are. I have very little sympathy for guys making the kind of money they are and feel the rules either don't apply to them or are so comfortable (or naive) that they are willing to risk breaking the rules at the detriment of their own careers and the success of their team.

 

[tynimiller]

He agreed to the rules, and knew what he shouldn't ingest, consume or inhale into his body. Play idiot games...you get idiot awards.

 

[HardRightEdge]

The simple message here is, if you want to play in the NFL, you play by the set rules. If you don't know the rules, hire someone who can coach you on them. If you can't live by the rules, hire a baby sitter. While some of us may not agree with the rules, they are what they are. I have very little sympathy for guys making the kind of money they are and feel the rules either don't apply to them or are so comfortable (or naive) that they are willing to risk breaking the rules at the detriment of their own careers and the success of their team.

It's hard to argue with that, given the absence of moralizing. I would add to your root causes ["comfortable (or naïve")] two other possibilities: stupidity or addiction.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It's hard to argue with that, given the absence of moralizing. I would add to your root causes ["comfortable (or naïve")] two other possibilities: stupidity or addiction.

Agreed. But the "moralizing" of the subject happens when the player signs the contract (for that player). Personally, I have a completely different viewpoint of marijuana then the NFL does, but if I want to play in the NFL, I need to live with their rule.

Addiction is definitely an excuse, but here again, something a player needs to recognize and seek help or face the consequences. We saw this with Favre. Possibly not much different then a player who struggles with food addiction. There are no direct penalties from the NFL for this, but the indirect penalty is you may eat yourself out of a job.

Just like when we all get our drivers license, we agree to the rules of the road. Personally, I find it silly to stop at a stop sign in the middle of nowhere and no other car in site, but if I choose to run that sign, I face the consequences of my actions. Some NFL players just seem to run red lights in the middle of the day, at a busy intersection, in front of a police station. Hard to fix stupid.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Agreed. But the "moralizing" of the subject happens when the player signs the contract (for that player). Personally, I have a completely different viewpoint of marijuana then the NFL does, but if I want to play in the NFL, I need to live with their rule.

Addiction is definitely an excuse, but here again, something a player needs to recognize and seek help or face the consequences. We saw this with Favre. Possibly not much different then a player who struggles with food addiction. There are no direct penalties from the NFL for this, but the indirect penalty is you may eat yourself out of a job.

Just like when we all get our drivers license, we agree to the rules of the road. Personally, I find it silly to stop at a stop sign in the middle of nowhere and no other car in site, but if I choose to run that sign, I face the consequences of my actions. Some NFL players just seem to run red lights in the middle of the day, at a busy intersection, in front of a police station. Hard to fix stupid.

You avoided moralizing in your previous post, which I agreed with, but you now seem to have second thoughts.

I still agree with much of what you said. However, if one overeats his way out of a job or rolls through a stop sign, as in your analogies, one is hard pressed to call those "moral failings".

The point being, there are Packer fans (and much of the culture at large), though perhaps not you in particular, that singles out drug usage among myriad self-destructive behaviors as a moral failing disqualifying a player for the elevated status of "Packer player".

It's worth considering that had Favre been pulled over with that unprescribed vicodin in his possession before he had decided to turn himself in so to speak, there's little to differentiate him from Jolly driving around with a cup of drank.

And as noted previously, you can't make assumptions about who might be the "good guys", if we're to call them that, because you just don't know if they're just smart enough and not addicted so as not to get caught.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You avoided moralizing in your previous post, which I agreed with, but you now seem to have second thoughts.

Maybe I am interrupting "moralizing" incorrectly, but what I was trying to say was then when a player signs a contracts to play in the NFL, he is agreeing to live by the moral standards that the NFL has set. Doesn't matter what his morals are, only matters what the NFL morals are. My morals or his morals may be different when it comes to certain things, but the moment he puts his name on the dotted line, if his morals result in actions that fall outside what the NFL allows, he faces the consequences. Aaron Rodgers might believe that Pot should be legal (his moral), but I'm guessing he knows that as an employee of the Green Bay Packers, it is a violation for him to use it. I seriously doubt that there is a player in the NFL that doesn't know this, but some, for whatever reason(s) put their need ahead of the possible consequence.

I only used the over eating analogy to explain a players mindset. They may consciously or subconsciously know that an unhealthy diet could be detrimental to their careers, but the desire to not control their diet outweighs the motivation of doing so.

Basically, it comes down to choice. A player gets busted for pot or anything else which falls outside the NFL's rules, in most of the cases, the player made the choice to participate in that action.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Maybe I am interrupting "moralizing" incorrectly, but what I was trying to say was then when a player signs a contracts to play in the NFL, he is agreeing to live by the moral standards that the NFL has set. My morals or his morals may be different when it comes to certain things, but the moment he puts his name on the dotted line, if his morals result in actions that fall outside what the NFL allows, he faces the consequences. Aaron Rodgers might believe that Pot should be legal (his moral), but I'm guessing he knows that as an employee of the Green Bay Packers, it is a violation for him to use it. I seriously doubt that there is a player in the NFL that doesn't know this, but some, for whatever reason(s) put their need ahead of the possible consequence.

Actually, the NFL does not consider non-performance enhancing drug issue a moral issue. More like a disease treatment issue as the Comish has stated. Is their chief concern the well-being of the players in "curing" them of drug problems? Or is it more of an image issue whereby the fewer guys who are on drugs the fewer who will have the opportunity to taint the league image by getting busted? You can decide for yourself.

Performance enhancing drugs are another matter. The NFL sees these drugs as compromising the integrity of the game. I suppose that could be a moralistic stance since the implication is that it's "cheating".

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Is their chief concern the well-being of the players in "curing" them of drug problems? Or is it more of an image issue whereby the fewer guys who are on drugs the fewer who will have the opportunity to taint the league image by getting busted? You can decide for yourself.

IMO, it's all about image. This is the NFL after all.

 

[Sky King]

Whether one is a user and enthusiast of so-called recreational drugs or whether one has no use for them whatsoever, Pennel testing positive has resulted in at least two unnecessary consequences:

1. It hurt the Packers as a team due to Pennel's unavailability for four games
2. It hurts the young man because unnecessary drugs in one's system may negatively affect their overall health (physical and mental) and they can be addicting. Multiple positive tests would be a sign of addiction, not to mention any bad judgment caused by an addiction.

Multiple positive tests and a significant suspension does not inspire any confidence in Pennel's short or long-term future as an NFL player.

 

[Poppa San]

Whether one is a user and enthusiast of so-called recreational drugs or whether one has no use for them whatsoever, Pennel testing positive has resulted in at least two unnecessary consequences:

1. It hurt the Packers as a team due to Pennel's unavailability for four games
2. It hurts the young man because unnecessary drugs in one's system may negatively affect their overall health (physical and mental) and they can be addicting. Multiple positive tests would be a sign of addiction, not to mention any bad judgment caused by an addiction.

Multiple positive tests and a significant suspension does not inspire any confidence in Pennel's short or long-term future as an NFL player.

Kinda shot down the mega money contract when the time comes no matter how he plays. Even if he channels his inner JJWatt.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Kinda shot down the mega money contract when the time comes no matter how he plays. Even if he channels his inner JJWatt.

While I don't expect Pennel to ever perform at an elite level players like Watt will be paid mega money no matter what. Just wait and see what a contract Von Miller will get within the next few days.