Midseason Assessment

Dantés

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The Packers are 3-5 and 8 games into this disappointing season. Here are some thoughts/questions.

1. The offensive line is the biggest factor rendering this offense and passing game ineffective. It's stunning how poorly they've played. There are the obvious injury factors to consider. One also wonders if they miss Stenavich in the OL Coach role. Until they improve, the offense will not make serious strides.

2. The pass catching options are not the root cause of the passing woes, but they exacerbate it. Just as a good secondary can make a defensive front look good by covering longer and forcing a QB to hold the ball, so good receivers can make an offensive front look good by getting open quickly and allowing the QB to get rid of the ball.

3. Rodgers is showing some signs this year of both decline (albeit not major) and his old tendencies of cowboying the offensive gameplan.

4. The defense has been, by far, the biggest disappointment on the year. They play soft, stupid football. They clearly are not being coached well. There are zero excuses. The personnel ingredients are all there. This is made a more bitter pill by the fact that the other candidate for the job, Ejiro Evero, is coaching a lesser group into the #2 scoring defense in the league.

5. Despite everything, if the offensive line can improve over the back half, I still think it's in the realm of possibility that the Packers make a push towards double digit wins and get in the mix for a WC spot.
 

Magooch

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I guess probably the biggest question for me is whether or not this team is performing more or less at the level you'd expect from its talent or if it's underperforming at the moment.

I think our roster has a lot of problems but I'm also of the mind that it's wildly underperforming at the moment, and for me that's especially true of the defense. I think you could make an argument that this *should* be a top-5 defense in the league right now. I guess that speaks towards #4 in your OP. You could perhaps make a case that our offense's struggles have made things harder on the defense but I think the bottom line is that just about everyone predicted a regression on offense while most would've told you defense would be a strength. I don't know if we've just vastly over-rated our own players or if it's poor coaching (I tend to think it's the latter, but I don't know), but in whatever case the trouble is that it seems awfully unlikely to me that we'll do anything of significance in-season to rectify that issue, so for better or worse we've probably got to get used to what we've got. This team has given its defensive coaching staff FAR too long of leashes for as long as I can remember, so I've got no confidence that they'll suddenly decide to step up and actually make a (needed) change.

In spite of all that - and I think this kind of speaks to point #5 - I think things are not entirely so awful as they might seem. We have a lot of problems and I'm not just saying we've simply been unlucky but at the same time it has felt like most games this season have had just a couple of plays that have gone against us that have entirely changed the complexion of the game. If Watson catches that sure-thing touchdown in week 1 I suspect we win that game. If Amari doesn't fumble against Washington we win that game. If Rasul doesn't get an unnecessary roughness on Slayton against the Giants we probably win that game. And so on...And I get it. Some of that is discipline issues. Sometimes you "make your own luck". We've not been good this year, but it's not like we're getting absolutely played off the field, either. A few plays go the other way and we're 6-2, 5-3 and things feel a lot different right now, I'd suspect.

But, all that being said, what's done is done and what's happened is what's happened and we're 3-5 and very much on the outside looking in when it comes to the playoffs, so I don't really know where we go from here. I suspect we will ultimately get better down the stretch, but I'm not sure it will be enough. I don't think we're willing to go all-in on this season (or Rodgers' remaining time with us in general), which leads me to think we're going to be stuck in purgatory for a bit, not willing to go all-in to commit to the right-now but also not willing to commit to a rebuild for the future.
 

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The defense has been a disappointment mostly. While I hate to finger point or name call, you can probably say that Campbell and Savage have regressed

Clark has been awesome but I feel bad for him as we may be wasting his career. Wyatt, I assumed would take time to contribe as 3-4 DL in the NFL can be a difficult adjustment

Lowry has been subpar again, and despite a bounce back year last year should be traded

Who was the guy we signed again? Reid? He has been non existent lol

Rashan and Preston have been good but with out a 3rd guy it feels like Offenses can gas/key in on them

Preston is a better run defender, so run away from him
Rashan is a better pass rusher, so double him on pass downs lol

Jaire has been good I think. Stokes and Rasul have been ok but not played as well as I would have liked
 
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The Packers are 3-5 and 8 games into this disappointing season. Here are some thoughts/questions.

1. The offensive line is the biggest factor rendering this offense and passing game ineffective. It's stunning how poorly they've played. There are the obvious injury factors to consider. One also wonders if they miss Stenavich in the OL Coach role. Until they improve, the offense will not make serious strides.

2. The pass catching options are not the root cause of the passing woes, but they exacerbate it. Just as a good secondary can make a defensive front look good by covering longer and forcing a QB to hold the ball, so good receivers can make an offensive front look good by getting open quickly and allowing the QB to get rid of the ball.

3. Rodgers is showing some signs this year of both decline (albeit not major) and his old tendencies of cowboying the offensive gameplan.

4. The defense has been, by far, the biggest disappointment on the year. They play soft, stupid football. They clearly are not being coached well. There are zero excuses. The personnel ingredients are all there. This is made a more bitter pill by the fact that the other candidate for the job, Ejiro Evero, is coaching a lesser group into the #2 scoring defense in the league.

5. Despite everything, if the offensive line can improve over the back half, I still think it's in the realm of possibility that the Packers make a push towards double digit wins and get in the mix for a WC spot.
As awful as we started on Defense. We showed some resilience and never gave up. The Offense actually played pretty good for once considering the strength of our opponent and we were missing more starters than them.Elgton, Lazard, Cobb, Watson

We put up more yards in Buffalo than any team has this season (398)
We also held Buffalo to their 2nd lowest yards total (369) on Offense in 7 contests. As bad as we played at times? Had we tightened up a few more plays this was a 1 score Loss and we had the ball last with :43 sec on their side of the field.

We allowed 3 points in 3rd-4th Quarters against the #4 rated Offense at their house
 
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Dantés

Dantés

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I guess probably the biggest question for me is whether or not this team is performing more or less at the level you'd expect from its talent or if it's underperforming at the moment.

I think our roster has a lot of problems but I'm also of the mind that it's wildly underperforming at the moment, and for me that's especially true of the defense. I think you could make an argument that this *should* be a top-5 defense in the league right now. I guess that speaks towards #4 in your OP. You could perhaps make a case that our offense's struggles have made things harder on the defense but I think the bottom line is that just about everyone predicted a regression on offense while most would've told you defense would be a strength. I don't know if we've just vastly over-rated our own players or if it's poor coaching (I tend to think it's the latter, but I don't know), but in whatever case the trouble is that it seems awfully unlikely to me that we'll do anything of significance in-season to rectify that issue, so for better or worse we've probably got to get used to what we've got. This team has given its defensive coaching staff FAR too long of leashes for as long as I can remember, so I've got no confidence that they'll suddenly decide to step up and actually make a (needed) change.

In spite of all that - and I think this kind of speaks to point #5 - I think things are not entirely so awful as they might seem. We have a lot of problems and I'm not just saying we've simply been unlucky but at the same time it has felt like most games this season have had just a couple of plays that have gone against us that have entirely changed the complexion of the game. If Watson catches that sure-thing touchdown in week 1 I suspect we win that game. If Amari doesn't fumble against Washington we win that game. If Rasul doesn't get an unnecessary roughness on Slayton against the Giants we probably win that game. And so on...And I get it. Some of that is discipline issues. Sometimes you "make your own luck". We've not been good this year, but it's not like we're getting absolutely played off the field, either. A few plays go the other way and we're 6-2, 5-3 and things feel a lot different right now, I'd suspect.

But, all that being said, what's done is done and what's happened is what's happened and we're 3-5 and very much on the outside looking in when it comes to the playoffs, so I don't really know where we go from here. I suspect we will ultimately get better down the stretch, but I'm not sure it will be enough. I don't think we're willing to go all-in on this season (or Rodgers' remaining time with us in general), which leads me to think we're going to be stuck in purgatory for a bit, not willing to go all-in to commit to the right-now but also not willing to commit to a rebuild for the future.

They are most certainly amounting to less than the sum of their parts-- no doubt in my mind.

On the offensive side, I can be forgiving. Key players have been injured, and they have a lot of new/young pieces. I expected a rocky start, albeit not this rocky.

On defense, it's unforgivable. You have absolutely everything you need. There are high draft picks and high priced extensions/signings absolutely everywhere. And their problems are largely schematic-- either in the sense that they are put in poor positions or don't play with enough football IQ.

I have been way more patient with Barry than most people on this board, but if I had control I would fire him today and give the job to Jerry Gray as the interim. If the whole reason you're hired is because you're going to install the in-vogue 2 high, match coverage defense of the day, and your veteran unit (in year two btw!) can't figure out how to handle a crossing route until week 6, you can leave. You either suck at teaching scheme or don't know what needs to be understood by the players or both.
 
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They are most certainly amounting to less than the sum of their parts-- no doubt in my mind.

On the offensive side, I can be forgiving. Key players have been injured, and they have a lot of new/young pieces. I expected a rocky start, albeit not this rocky.

On defense, it's unforgivable. You have absolutely everything you need. There are high draft picks and high priced extensions/signings absolutely everywhere. And their problems are largely schematic-- either in the sense that they are put in poor positions or don't play with enough football IQ.

I have been way more patient with Barry than most people on this board, but if I had control I would fire him today and give the job to Jerry Gray as the interim. If the whole reason you're hired is because you're going to install the in-vogue 2 high, match coverage defense of the day, and your veteran unit (in year two btw!) can't figure out how to handle a crossing route until week 6, you can leave. You either suck at teaching scheme or don't know what needs to be understood by the players or both.
I’m not certain, but I’m about 75% sure it’s schematic.
I’ll say it again. Many thought I was nuts for wanting us to run the ball.

Get Wyatt on that field more (30+ snaps) and consider subbing Eric Wilson in more at LB early in a game and you’ll see the Run game improve some. Then revert back in the second half. They are both very good Tacklers, have high motors and excel at Run stop
 
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kevans74

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I find the comments on Wilson interesting. I mean it goes back to the "once in a generation/rare" type 3-4 ILBs like Patrick Willis.

Most can NOT cover the pass and stop the run well, so just pick one LOL.

Devondre was pretty good at both last year but has certainly regressed this year. I would say Walker has/will be one of the best pass defending ILBers we will ever have in quite some time - probably even better than Nick Barnett who played safety(?) i believe in college, but so far Quay hasn't exactly been great against the run either
 

Schultz

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I’m not certain, but I’m about 75% sure it’s schematic.
I’ll say it again. Many thought I was nuts for wanting us to run the ball.

Get Wyatt on that field more (30+ snaps) and consider subbing Eric Wilson in more at LB early in a game and you’ll see the Run game improve some. Then revert back in the second half. They are both very good Tacklers, have high motors and excel at Run stop
Dang it Oldschool. We need you calling the plays. Run the ball. Kick FGs. The well rested Defense plays to expectations. The Pack win every game 15-14.
 
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Dang it Oldschool. We need you calling the plays. Run the ball. Kick FGs. The well rested Defense plays to expectations. The Pack win every game 15-14.
No we don’t want that I’d be awful at the details because it’s not my field of expertise. I am successful in assessing risk and kinda street smart from days I ran the roads and hit my lows.
If you need my help though I’m not free. I’ve got things to, places to go, people to see.
No just kidding I’ll help you Shultz, but if it was anyone else asking I’d say no
 
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captainWIMM

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But, all that being said, what's done is done and what's happened is what's happened and we're 3-5 and very much on the outside looking in when it comes to the playoffs, so I don't really know where we go from here.

Actually the Packers are only a game behind the Niners for the last wild card spot at this point.

Clark has been awesome but I feel bad for him as we may be wasting his career.

Clark has struggled defending the run as well.

Lowry has been subpar again, and despite a bounce back year last year should be traded

I highly doubt another team would be interested in trading for Lowry and his contract.

Who was the guy we signed again? Reid? He has been non existent lol

Reed is playing a lot of snaps. While he hasn't made a ton of big plays he has hardly been a liability either.

Rashan and Preston have been good but with out a 3rd guy it feels like Offenses can gas/key in on them

Enagbare might be able to perform at a decent enough level to give both Gary and Preston a breather from time to time.

Jaire has been good I think. Stokes and Rasul have been ok but not played as well as I would have liked

Douglas isn't making any big plays anymore and Stokes has struggled for most of the season.

We allowed 3 points in 3rd-4th Quarters against the #4 rated Offense at their house

The defense played well in the second half. Once again, they weren't able to show up for four quarters though.

I have been way more patient with Barry than most people on this board, but if I had control I would fire him today and give the job to Jerry Gray as the interim.

Unfortunately MLF was pretty clear about it during yestrday's press conference that there will be no changes to the coaching staff on defense.

Understandably after it worked out so well to hold on to Drayton for all of last season :sneaky:

I’ll say it again. Many thought I was nuts for wanting us to run the ball.

It would have been nuts to run the ball for the majority of plays in the games leading up to the one at Buffalo as it wasn't working either.

Get Wyatt on that field more (30+ snaps) and consider subbing Eric Wilson in more at LB early in a game and you’ll see the Run game improve some. Then revert back in the second half. They are both very good Tacklers, have high motors and excel at Run stop

Wilson struggled mightily defending the run during the previous two seasons with the Vikings, Eagles and Texans as well.

I would say Walker has/will be one of the best pass defending ILBers we will ever have in quite some time - probably even better than Nick Barnett who played safety(?) i believe in college, but so far Quay hasn't exactly been great against the run either

Quay has actually been terrible defending the run so far.
 

kevans74

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Actually the Packers are only a game behind the Niners for the last wild card spot at this point.



Clark has struggled defending the run as well.



I highly doubt another team would be interested in trading for Lowry and his contract.



Reed is playing a lot of snaps. While he hasn't made a ton of big plays he has hardly been a liability either.



Enagbare might be able to perform at a decent enough level to give both Gary and Preston a breather from time to time.



Douglas isn't making any big plays anymore and Stokes has struggled for most of the season.



The defense played well in the second half. Once again, they weren't able to show up for four quarters though.



Unfortunately MLF was pretty clear about it during yestrday's press conference that there will be no changes to the coaching staff on defense.

Understandably after it worked out so well to hold on to Drayton for all of last season :sneaky:



It would have been nuts to run the ball for the majority of plays in the games leading up to the one at Buffalo as it wasn't working either.



Wilson struggled mightily defending the run during the previous two seasons with the Vikings, Eagles and Texans as well.



Quay has actually been terrible defending the run so far.
Ok
 

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The rebuild has begun. While I know they are technically still in the playoff hunt I don't think they are talented offensively enough to make it happen. The remaining schedule for the Packers is pretty daunting. If I'm being optimistic, I say they have three more wins in the Lions twice and the Bears left. Then they win one they shouldn't. Remaining schedule is Lions, Cowboys, Titans, Eagles, Bears, Rams, Dolphins, Vikings and Lions. I'll say the one they shouldn't win will be the Cowboys just for fun. That leaves them at 7-10. If my glass is half empty, which I don't allow in my personal life, I say they win two more. They beat the Lions in one of their matchups and the Bears. The selloff will begin in the offseason, if not a couple guys today.

The oline is nowhere near what we thought it would be. The WRs are worse than I thought they would be and the defense isn't elite. I actually think the defense has held up well enough for the Pack to win games. The O just can't put up points. There is a huge lack of skill players right now. In fact, it's glaring. The only one I see that can make plays is Jones. Maybe a little out of Dillon last game. Anyway, the rebuild that we have dreaded for many years is upon us.
 

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The oline is nowhere near what we thought it would be. The WRs are worse than I thought they would be and the defense isn't elite. I actually think the defense has held up well enough for the Pack to win games. The O just can't put up points. There is a huge lack of skill players right now. In fact, it's glaring. The only one I see that can make plays is Jones. Maybe a little out of Dillon last game. Anyway, the rebuild that we have dreaded for many years is upon us.

The OL has simply not stayed healthy (Bakh and Jenkins) and those that are have underachieved (especially Newman) when in there.

WRs are very hard to judge seeing as how Watkins, Cobb, Lazard and Watson ALL have simply not been healthy. We could have in off season added any two WRs, if they don't stay healthy they'd provided no more or no less than our current stable.

Health is an overarching offensive issue I have #1 issue
#2 is execution by those in there when healthy for sure....the same page simply isn't always happening between OL in protection, between Rodgers and skill players...

When your skill players have collectively missed 11 games...plus Watson exiting last game early....it doesn't matter who you have.
 

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As much as I hate to say it. Time to look at the draft? I don't see any free agent they could bring in that would make any difference.
 

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The defense has been a disappointment mostly. While I hate to finger point or name call, you can probably say that Campbell and Savage have regressed

Clark has been awesome but I feel bad for him as we may be wasting his career. Wyatt, I assumed would take time to contribe as 3-4 DL in the NFL can be a difficult adjustment

Lowry has been subpar again, and despite a bounce back year last year should be traded

Who was the guy we signed again? Reid? He has been non existent lol

Rashan and Preston have been good but with out a 3rd guy it feels like Offenses can gas/key in on them

Preston is a better run defender, so run away from him
Rashan is a better pass rusher, so double him on pass downs lol

Jaire has been good I think. Stokes and Rasul have been ok but not played as well as I would have liked
I wonder how much of the defences problems could be attributed to the coaches?
 

tynimiller

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The way the NFC is weak (we're one game out of WC) it truly sucks the deadline is now and not next week.
 
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The defense played well in the second half. Once again, they weren't able to show up for four quarters though.
Yes. They were gashed in the first half. Barry needs to put a complete game together against a playoff contender. 2 Quarters isn’t enough.
It would have been nuts to run the ball for the majority of plays in the games leading up to the one at Buffalo as it wasn't working either.
How would you know? By the 12 snaps across 4 Quarters??
You’re defending a game plan that we already know didn’t work. We couldn’t have done any worse than miserable! :eek:

You said the same thing about Buffalo and how it was basically a bad idea to Run. You (and several others that jumped on your train) repeatedly used the Ravens as your litmus test if you recall?
So let’s just look at the evidence and the Ravens absolutely were admittedly successful, so I can see where maybe fear got you a little, which it does to each of us.

Ravens vs Bills 33X162 4.9 per
Packers vs Bills 31X208 6.7 per

Why not at least Run a bigger mix? 31 was Decent. We can handle
30-35 easily. It’s clearly worked in the games where we’ve committed (>25 rushes) It’s really probably the strength of this current Offense. I’m not suggesting doing it 100%, but Run Increased mix in situational, against teams with potent Offenses etc..
 
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PackAttack12

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I have been way more patient with Barry than most people on this board, but if I had control I would fire him today and give the job to Jerry Gray as the interim. If the whole reason you're hired is because you're going to install the in-vogue 2 high, match coverage defense of the day, and your veteran unit (in year two btw!) can't figure out how to handle a crossing route until week 6, you can leave. You either suck at teaching scheme or don't know what needs to be understood by the players or both.
I would actually love this scenario.
 

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Yes. They were gashed in the first half. Barry needs to put a complete game together against a playoff contender. 2 Quarters isn’t enough.

How would you know? By the 12 snaps across 4 Quarters??
You’re defending a game plan that we already know didn’t work. We couldn’t have done any worse than miserable! :eek:

You said the same thing about Buffalo and how it was basically a bad idea to Run. You (and several others that jumped on your train) repeatedly used the Ravens as your litmus test if you recall?
So let’s just look at the evidence and the Ravens absolutely were admittedly successful, so I can see where maybe fear got you a little, which it does to each of us.

Ravens vs Bills 33X162 4.9 per
Packers vs Bills 31X208 6.7 per

Why not at least Run a bigger mix? 31 was Decent. We can handle
30-35 easily. It’s clearly worked in the games where we’ve committed (>25 rushes) It’s really probably the strength of this current Offense. I’m not suggesting doing it 100%, but Run Increased mix in situational, against teams with potent Offenses etc..
I remember a few of those games, we penalized ourselves right out of run downs, or had 1st or 2nd down runs that got stuffed leaving a passing down. Sure we could rush for 8 yards on the next play, but when it's 3rd and 9 it doesn't help much.

and although the run game showed some good signs last game, lets not forget we still lost by 2 scores and were down by 2-3 possessions much of the game. Running for a while helped keep it from getting out of hand, but it wasn't our path to victory either.
 
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and although the run game showed some good signs last game, lets not forget we still lost by 2 scores and were down by 2-3 possessions much of the game. Running for a while helped keep it from getting out of hand, but it wasn't our path to victory either.
That’s just odd. It’s like playing both sides in an attempt to diminish our Running Game. Let’s focus on the Running game and not the 23 other aspects of the Buffalo contest that contribute to final score. In your opinion… Did Running the Ball in increased fashion (30+ times) help our cause or hinder it against Buffalo?

Yes or No??
 
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Unfortunately MLF was pretty clear about it during yestrday's press conference that there will be no changes to the coaching staff on defense.

Understandably after it worked out so well to hold on to Drayton for all of last season :sneaky:
MLF is making the same mistakes McCarthy made.
 
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Dantés

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Unfortunately MLF was pretty clear about it during yestrday's press conference that there will be no changes to the coaching staff on defense.

Understandably after it worked out so well to hold on to Drayton for all of last season :sneaky:

Overwhelmingly, the most likely outcome is that Barry is retained through the season and fired afterwards (assuming the defense doesn't majorly rebound under him).

The one sliver of possibility that might change that is something that Demovsky recently hinted at in an article about LaFleur keeping Barry: the players are getting really annoyed with Barry's approach to defense. If half the lockerroom is in revolt, it might force LaFleur's hand.

Again-- unlikely. But that is something that could change the equation.
 

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The Packers are 3-5 and 8 games into this disappointing season. Here are some thoughts/questions.

1. The offensive line is the biggest factor rendering this offense and passing game ineffective. It's stunning how poorly they've played. There are the obvious injury factors to consider. One also wonders if they miss Stenavich in the OL Coach role. Until they improve, the offense will not make serious strides.

2. The pass catching options are not the root cause of the passing woes, but they exacerbate it. Just as a good secondary can make a defensive front look good by covering longer and forcing a QB to hold the ball, so good receivers can make an offensive front look good by getting open quickly and allowing the QB to get rid of the ball.

3. Rodgers is showing some signs this year of both decline (albeit not major) and his old tendencies of cowboying the offensive gameplan.

4. The defense has been, by far, the biggest disappointment on the year. They play soft, stupid football. They clearly are not being coached well. There are zero excuses. The personnel ingredients are all there. This is made a more bitter pill by the fact that the other candidate for the job, Ejiro Evero, is coaching a lesser group into the #2 scoring defense in the league.

5. Despite everything, if the offensive line can improve over the back half, I still think it's in the realm of possibility that the Packers make a push towards double digit wins and get in the mix for a WC spot.
I agree except with the double digit wins. It may be too late. The schedule is not on our side and we must be realistic. When you lose to the Giants, Jets, and Commanders with limited talent at the QB position how can you beat teams like Philly, Minnesota, LA, Tennessee, and Miami? The truth is that we will be in a battle even to beat the Lions. And those Lions are hungry.
 
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