McCarthy to give up play calling

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Mondio

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I'm not sure this is going to change as much as some people think. I think the head coach is still going to dictate the flow of the game anyway. I think Clements was given a new title to prevent him from being taken away for a "promotion", and I also think the way this Front office operates, they find people and build them up. Do your job, you get more opportunity. Clements is one of those guys.

I'm sure MM will still be involved in play calling and at least dictating the overall tone of how they're going to call the game. and Edgar is another one that has worked for and earned another opportunity.

But in the end, we're going to be having the same guys involved in formulating plans, just with minor changes in responsibilities going forward.

Some people are saying this was a move forced by the top? I don't buy that. I think all the guys involved have too much respect for each other and are too intelligent for that scenario to have occurred. and besides, what leverage did Thompson have? "Hey Mike, give up the play calling or I'll be really mad" ??? He's certainly not going anywhere.

I have a feeling it was a decision based on a lot of self reflection and thought and also talks with everyone involved.
 
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HardRightEdge

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It seems a bit of a muddle to me. Why is Clements going to be calling the plays as "assistant head coach" while Bennett is offensive coordinator? So Bennett prepares the game plan and another calls the plays? Couldn't Clements have just remained oc and done the play calling?

Will Bennet go up in the booth during games and Clement work on the sideline with Aaron?

Some titles and roles are being shifted around the basic Packers' offensive "brain trust" will remain the same.
I would expect the play caller to be in the booth.
 

Sunshinepacker

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It's a good move. I think McCarthy probably looked at a couple of games in which play calling was an issue or he thought that his time would have been better spent focusing on another part of the team during the game and he decided to consider removing himself from having to focus on one element of the game.

And let's all be honest here...the Packers have a great oline, two phenomenal WRs, a terrific RB and the best QB in the NFL...is the playcaller REALLY that important? I mean, it's not like the Packers have this exotic, complicated offense. They have a passing offense that's built off multiple reads from the receivers and QB, so those guys are as much in charge of what happens on the field as the coach.
 

RepStar15

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I think this could work out pretty well. Our offense is established and successful in what they do, thanks mostly to the offensive line and star veteran play maker's. Aaron Rodgers knows what to look for in his opponents and changes the call if there is something he does not like. Maybe this means a huge reform to defensive strategy. Not something as significant as switching up to a 4-3, but maybe an upgraded scheme to the "NASCAR" bull rush.
 

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Still no official announcements but multiple sources reporting it makes the changes likely IMO. I agree the promotion of Clements is at least partially to make it more difficult for another team to poach him. The promotion of Bennett is probably due to the fact he’s done a great job and deserves to ascend another rung on the ladder.

I too suspected McCarthy was behind the changes on D after the bye and although no one will come right out and say it, Capers came pretty close. McCarthy is so detailed and organized IMO the most important benefit of him giving up play calling will be on game days. And while I support the change, IMO McCarthy has a very solid record as a play caller – just look at where his offenses have finished in scoring vs. the league.

BTW, Ivo610 could you make the text in post #7 a little bigger? ;)
 

Mondio

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Bennett is going to be one of those guys that does well in this league in the long term I think. He was a good running back, not outstanding, but good and one of my all time favorite Packers. He was good because he worked his *** off and paid attention. He understood that offense we ran, and needed to or he probably wouldn't have lasted long.

He's paid dues in this league as a coach and around a lot of people that know football. I'm sure he's been paying attention. He seems to be one of those guys that can balance being a coach and a player and still be relevant and motivating to the guys around him. He's not one that is just going to be there one day and be gone, he's the guy that has taken his skills, worked hard, learned all he could, put in the time, taste success and defeat and continue to put it all together to one very good package in the end.
 

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I think they are giving bennett his due just, he's been a packer a looooooonnggggg time. So packers are building his resume. I don't know to much about clements but i think if he stay aggressive both halfs we win a lot of games.
 
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I was reading an article about a month ago that said Aaron Rodgers is already calling about one half of the plays. I don't think he would have called run with four minutes left to go in the game. But I could be wrong. Lombardi let Bart Starr call almost all of the plays. Maybe it's time to go old school.

On most of the plays Rodgers had an option to change the play at the LOS to a predefined run or pass depending on the defense's look. MM was still calling the plays though.

Very much this! Add this may help better the team's replay challenge/timeout decisions. Ironically, the Dez Bryant challenge was a historically huge success but, overall, Mac's record has not been good.

McCarthy was really bad in 2014 but had a decent record (15-of-29) from 2010-13.
 

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Clements has been in GB since 2006. He's a system guy and as offensive coordinator, he already had a big role in game planning. Anyone who is hoping for a big change in play calling will be disappointed as I expect it to be very similar.

I bet this is more for MM to focus on other areas in game than for an improvement in the offensive play calling.
 

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Clements has been in GB since 2006. He's a system guy and as offensive coordinator, he already had a big role in game planning. Anyone who is hoping for a big change in play calling will be disappointed as I expect it to be very similar.

I bet this is more for MM to focus on other areas in game than for an improvement in the offensive play calling.
Agreed. I don't think this change if it turns out to be true is as much about Clements being a better play caller than McCarthy, as much as its about McCarthy wanting to focus more on the defense and special teams and improve those units.
 
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HardRightEdge

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is the playcaller REALLY that important? I mean, it's not like the Packers have this exotic, complicated offense.
The play caller is very important even with an experienced and accomplished QB. He should be in the booth, though.

I'm amused to watch players, particularly QBs, pore over the 24 player snapshots while their play caller works from the sidelines where he cannot see sh*t. Regardless, somebody has to send in the personnel groups which delimit the range of play call possibilities as noted earlier.

The Packers do have a complicated offense. The playbook is reported to be quite hefty, as is common among offenses with West Coast roots. By his accounting, McCarthy has taken measures in recent years to reduce the "volume", which is more of a necessity if there are a lot of young players on the field. Capers, on the other hand, eschews such compromises to his genius.

Regardless, there are a lot of combo, option and timing routes built into this offense. To give one example, Nelson was still adding to his route tree in year 4.

Zone blocking can get pretty sophisticated.

There's a lot of subtlety involved in the enterprise.
 

SoonerPack

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Classic damned if you do case. MM got torched after the Seattle debacle and rightfully so. He we called stubborn and people swore there would be no changes made and the status quo would continue. So, Slocum gets the axe and if this report is true Mike will be focusing more on the entirety of the game opposed to more offensive centered. These are obvious signs that he concedes that mistakes were made and change is necessary yet some of you still pan him? The reality of the situation is some of you just hate coach and no matter what he does you will not move from your position. I say kudos to coach and think all the moves made this off-season will only serve this team well next season. When someone tries to correct a wrong I typically applaud their actions I feel Mike is doing just that. As I said some of you already have your mind made up on coach and that would lead me to ask one simple question...who's the stubborn one?
 

PackerDNA

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Irregardless of how it turns out, I appreciate that MM and the rest of this organization are hard at work in fixing problems. At the end of the day, that's all we can ask.
 

PFanCan

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Now, if they name someone other than McCarthy for the person to throw the red challenge flags, we will finally have this mess sorted...
 
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Great News!
There is valid reasoning in the military behind why a General doesn't do a Colonels work and so on down the ranks.
Although the General sometimes misses his role as a Colonel and enjoys the duties of this, he needs to focusing on ALL of his Colonels and holding them accountable for their role in the big picture. MM should be making sure the goal is clear (pun intended!) and the plan to get there is consistently reliant on the strengths of the department heads.
The President doesn't involve himself in Judiciary matters. As the executor, he hires the necessary people to do the job
MM has enough to do without overseeing traffic court
Coach Philbin would be proud
 

GoPGo

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Now, if they name someone other than McCarthy for the person to throw the red challenge flags, we will finally have this mess sorted...
It's not Mike. It's the guys in the booth who have the monitors who make the majority of the decisions on whether to challenge or not. Who physically throws the flag matters very little.
 

GoPGo

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Great News!
There is valid reasoning in the military behind why a General doesn't do a Colonels work and so on down the ranks.
Although the General sometimes misses his role as a Colonel and enjoys the duties of this, he needs to focusing on ALL of his Colonels and holding them accountable for their role in the big picture.

It's funny you mention this. I just got done watching the "Band of Brothers" episode where Lt. **** in his incompetence is tasked with capturing the village of Foy and freezes up. So Cpt. Winters tries to run out to lead the charge when Col. Sink reminds him that he's a battalion leader and orders him back, telling him it's not his job, so Winters sends in Lt. Speirs to get it done.

If Clements does his best Lt. **** on occasion, I wonder if McCarthy will try to pull a Cpt. Winters and if so, will there be a Col. Sink (who could be anyone on staff) to pull him back? And if so, would that make Edgar Bennett our Lt. Speirs?
 
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Now, if they name someone other than McCarthy for the person to throw the red challenge flags, we will finally have this mess sorted...
Yes! If flags can be constantly consistent and thrown in a relatively related fashion.. I believe, Sir, you are correct in assuming the mess will be sorta sorted, But this task could be a charged with challenging changes
 

Sunshinepacker

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The play caller is very important even with an experienced and accomplished QB. He should be in the booth, though.

I'm amused to watch players, particularly QBs, pore over the 24 player snapshots while their play caller works from the sidelines where he cannot see sh*t. Regardless, somebody has to send in the personnel groups which delimit the range of play call possibilities as noted earlier.

The Packers do have a complicated offense. The playbook is reported to be quite hefty, as is common among offenses with West Coast roots. By his accounting, McCarthy has taken measures in recent years to reduce the "volume", which is more of a necessity if there are a lot of young players on the field. Capers, on the other hand, eschews such compromises to his genius.

Regardless, there are a lot of combo, option and timing routes built into this offense. To give one example, Nelson was still adding to his route tree in year 4.

Zone blocking can get pretty sophisticated.

There's a lot of subtlety involved in the enterprise.


I think you're partially talking about gameplanning, which I would assume McCarthy would still be a part of. NFL teams don't bring their entire playbook into a game since they're only going to get at most 70 plays. Teams scout their opponent and decide how and who to attack and then select plays accordingly, which they then pratice during the week. The actual process of calling plays is not simple, never meant to imply that it was, but it's certainly not some amazingly difficult process when you have Rodgers, Cobb, Nelson and Lacy along with a good oline.

Bravo by the way on somehow managing to take a shot at Capers in a McCarthy play-calling thread. I mean, he should certainly understand that a simple, easy to read defense is the best kind of defense! For both your team and the opponent's offense!
 
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Now, if they name someone other than McCarthy for the person to throw the red challenge flags, we will finally have this mess sorted...

I think a lot of people tend to overreact on certain things based on limited information.

I agree McCarthy was terrible in challenging calls in 2014 (aside of the most important one vs. the Cowboys) but let's take a look at the stats from 2008-13 (I wasn't able to find more infos about it and as of right now don't have the time to do a research on my own):

During that period 24 of MM's challenges were overturned in the Packers favor which ranks 3rd in the league (17.7 average). His success rate of 48% was 14th and over the league average of 45%.

While it seems MM often makes a bad decision challenging a call it's common that most calls aren't overturned in the NFL.
 
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HardRightEdge

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I think you're partially talking about gameplanning, which I would assume McCarthy would still be a part of. NFL teams don't bring their entire playbook into a game since they're only going to get at most 70 plays. Teams scout their opponent and decide how and who to attack and then select plays accordingly, which they then pratice during the week. The actual process of calling plays is not simple, never meant to imply that it was, but it's certainly not some amazingly difficult process when you have Rodgers, Cobb, Nelson and Lacy along with a good oline.

Bravo by the way on somehow managing to take a shot at Capers in a McCarthy play-calling thread. I mean, he should certainly understand that a simple, easy to read defense is the best kind of defense! For both your team and the opponent's offense!
No, I was actually addressing comments that the play caller is not necessarily important and that the Packers' offense is not complex. I said nothing about game preparation. But since you mentioned it, if the reported changes take place I would expect McCarthy to remain heavily involved in game planning but likely with fewer hours devoted to it.

Game planning makes determinations about what the opposing defense is expected to do, a determination of weaknesses and strengths, and a series of if/then propositions. Play calling involves an assessment of what the opponent is actually doing on the field that day, and selecting plays to attack it. I'm sure you've heard the expression "making adjustments"? The idea that the play caller is somehow not critical to the outcome of the game hardly warrants response.

As for Capers, it's two sides of the same coin, as noted earlier. If McCarthy has an OC and an associate HC both working the offensive side of the ball, it stands to reason he's looking to spend more time on defense and ST.

Further, in my recent criticisms of Capers, he was defended in these pages for his brilliant stroke of moving Matthews to the inside. As it turns out, according to Demovsky, it was McCarthy's idea. I'm failing to see evidence of Capers' alleged genius playing out on the field. He's overly preoccupied with the opponents passer rating, his defenses struggle to hold 4th. quarter leads, and he's failed to make adjustments at critical times, as Woodson noted in one critical instance, a comment that got him fired.

Letting a QB run for 179 yds. before contact? Having opponents go 7 quarters without forcing a punt? Giving up 3 scoring drives of about 200 yds. in 5 minutes against Seattle? These kinds of epically bad performances would have gotten him fired anywhere else.

The Green Bay Packers will not win another Superbowl with Dom Capers running this defense unencumbered. Perhaps McCarthy can introduce some helpful encumbrances. Otherwise, we can enjoy the annual playoff chases and suffer the postseason disappointments.
 
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Sunshinepacker

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No, I was actually addressing comments that the play caller is not necessarily important and that the Packers' offense is not complex. I said nothing about game preparation. But since you mentioned it, if the reported changes take place I would expect McCarthy to remain heavily involved in game planning but likely with fewer hours devoted to it.

Game planning makes determinations about what the opposing defense is expected to do, a determination of weaknesses and strengths, and a series of if/then propositions. Play calling involves an assessment of what the opponent is actually doing on the field that day, and selecting plays to attack it. I'm sure you've heard the expression "making adjustments"? The idea that the play caller is somehow not critical to the outcome of the game hardly warrants response.

As for Capers, it's two sides of the same coin, as noted earlier. If McCarthy has an OC and an associate HC both working the offensive side of the ball, it stands to reason he's looking to spend more time on defense and ST.

Further, in my recent criticisms of Capers, he was defended in these pages for his brilliant stroke of moving Matthews to the inside. As it turns out, according to Demovsky, it was McCarthy's idea. I'm failing to see evidence of Capers' alleged genius playing out on the field. He's overly preoccupied with the opponents passer rating, his defenses struggle to hold 4th. quarter leads, and he's failed to make adjustments at critical times, as Woodson noted in one critical instance, a comment that got him fired.

Letting a QB run for 179 yds. before contact? Having opponents go 7 quarters without forcing a punt? Giving up 3 scoring drives of about 200 yds. in 5 minutes against Seattle? These kinds of epically bad performances would have gotten him fired anywhere else.

The Green Bay Packers will not win another Superbowl with Dom Capers running this defense unencumbered. Perhaps McCarthy can introduce some helpful encumbrances. Otherwise, we can enjoy the annual playoff chases and suffer the postseason disappointments.

Does it ruin the argument of Capers being a poor DC by pointing out that Russell Wilson, the best running QB in the NFL this past year, was held to only 25 yards rushing by the Packers? Or do we get to just explain that away somehow? That after being given some decent players on defense to work with the Packers defense was average this season? Or are we not supposed to be happy unless we get a defensive coordinator that can be the driving force behind a Super Bowl....oh wait....

The DC can only put players in position to make plays. HaHa was in position to stop the 2-pt conversion. How was it Capers fault that HaHa didn't stop it? Williams was in position to stop deep passes by Seattle. How was it Capers fault that he didn't? If the DC is supposed to expect your best corner to not be able to cover a poor WR, well then, your problem isn't the DC. Finally, there seem to an awful lot of professional football personnel, who's livelihoods depend on knowing these things, who still think Capers is a good DC.

Finally, my comment was slightly tongue-in-cheek about the playcaller but I still firmly believe that a playcallers job is FAR easier with the Packers offensive personnel.
 
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HardRightEdge

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Does it ruin the argument of Capers being a poor DC by pointing out that Russell Wilson, the best running QB in the NFL this past year, was held to only 25 yards rushing by the Packers? Or do we get to just explain that away somehow? That after being given some decent players on defense to work with the Packers defense was average this season? Or are we not supposed to be happy unless we get a defensive coordinator that can be the driving force behind a Super Bowl....oh wait....

The DC can only put players in position to make plays. HaHa was in position to stop the 2-pt conversion. How was it Capers fault that HaHa didn't stop it? Williams was in position to stop deep passes by Seattle. How was it Capers fault that he didn't? If the DC is supposed to expect your best corner to not be able to cover a poor WR, well then, your problem isn't the DC. Finally, there seem to an awful lot of professional football personnel, who's livelihoods depend on knowing these things, who still think Capers is a good DC.

Finally, my comment was slightly tongue-in-cheek about the playcaller but I still firmly believe that a playcallers job is FAR easier with the Packers offensive personnel.
You described the Capers whack-a-mole defense quite well.
 

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