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Mason Crosby

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by News Bot, Jul 27, 2013.

  1. GoPGo

    GoPGo Cheesehead

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    It's not that simple. Look at the numbers a little closer and you will find that few kickers attempt more 50+ yarders than Crosby does. Most of the guys at the top of the list only attempt 2-4 per year on average. Crosby average 6.5 per year at that distance...the most in the league by a good margin. A miss will hurt your average more than a make will help it. There are only a few guys who attempt anywhere close to as many 50+ kicks and the highest average among them is around 81-82%. Take 50+ attempts out of the equation and I bet you'd find Crosby somewhere in the middle of the pack. I don't know exact numbers, but I'd also bet out of his 33 attempts beyond 50 yards that at least 7 or 8 of those were 55 or longer. BTW, he attempted a whopping 9 from long range last year.

    Take away the really long ones that he's not very good at and his percentage is 81.8% and that includes his slump last year. Looks to me like MM needs to punt a little more and cut back on the 53+ yarders.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
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  2. GoPGo

    GoPGo Cheesehead

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    Thanks. But I think you'll find that it's Crosby who has the unorthodox approach, not Tavecchio. The only difference is that Crosby is leaving out the short step by starting with his feet in position as if he had already taken that step. Look at videos of various kickers and you'll see that the vast majority kick how Tavecchio does, which is identical to the technique Stenerud introduced decades ago.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
  3. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Carpenter was just cut.

    When you get down to it, kickers make their money from 30-49 yards. At one point last season, the league was something like 170-170 inside the 30...that range has become nearly equivalent to an extra point. +50 is nearly a coin flip among most of the better kickers.

    Carpenter's career from 30-49 is 83%.

    Crosby's career average from the same distance is 78%.

    Not a huge difference but it is a difference. It will come down to whether the coaches think Crosby has crossed the line into Chuck Knoblach Syndrome. Or is it Rick Ankiel Syndrome. Given questions regarding Crosby's state of mind, a guy like Carpenter might be a better risk/reward proposition.
     
  4. GoPGo

    GoPGo Cheesehead

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    I'm just curious as to what your rush is in chasing Tavecchio out the door. What more could he possibly do so far to earn his keep? Give the man a chance.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
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  5. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Who's rushing him out the door?

    T. is a guy who has never kicked in an NFL game. Until he's played in some preseason games we won't know what we have. Not knowing should turn thoughts to plan B, or in this case Plan C.

    I wasn't comparing T. to Carpenter. I was comparing Crosby to Carpenter. T. has no record to compare.

    In the end, I think they'll stick with Crosby unless he stinks it up in preseason. It is easy to rationalize the long kick misses, a temporary slump, cold whether affects, etc. And I think it would be a risky choice.
     
  6. GoPGo

    GoPGo Cheesehead

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    Not knowing should turn thoughts toward finding out, should it not? Then if he fails, you worry about Plan C, not before.
     
  7. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    First of all, I was just a messenger on this one...multiple media sources reported the same thing...the difference between C. and T in 2 step vs. 3 step technique and Slocums 1.3 second requirement.

    Second, since the NFL scrubs the internet of game video it would be a little hard to examine a meaningful sample. If you have links I'd like to see them.

    Third, what I can do is compare college clips of T. to, say, a guy like Blair Walsh only one year removed from college and the state of the art in robokicking as we know it.

    Walsh stands left foot slightly forward at set-up and takes a small first step with the left foot. So, one could say he's technically a three-stepper. T. stands right foot forward and takes a full step with his right foot as a lefty. T. looks like he has a slightly longer stride on step one. But yes, both are 3 steppers.

    O.K., Oprah.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
  8. GoPGo

    GoPGo Cheesehead

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    In this video you see T. standing with his right foot forward. He takes a small step with his right foot, then a longer step with his left foot, and finally a long stride with his right foot and swings through with his left leg for the kick. That's classic form going all the way back to Stenerud.



    Here you see David Akers using identical form:



    Here's Dan Carpenter doing the same from the other side:



    Here's a link describing the more common three-step technique:

    http://healthyliving.azcentral.com/kick-field-goal-soccer-style-5519.html

    It's a non-issue made up by some reporter. Crosby's two-step is pretty unique to his style.
     
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  9. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I corrected my earlier post to say "right foot" before you quoted it. It wasn't one reporter...it was at least 3. I assume this was taken from Slocum comments highlighting differences since one commented that Slocum had no intention of trying to change his mechanics. I agree that the differences are minimal. I saw a Cal clip where his first step was longer...an actual step rather than a small chop...he may have adjusted by the time he got to SF.
     
  10. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    If you throw out ALL of his career 50+ yard attempts/makes, Crosby would rank 11th. in career FG% among kickers active in 2012. That's pretty weak.

    He does attempt more +50 than most kickers (5.5 not 6.5 per game, by the way), but his 42% make rate is very low relative to his contemporaries.

    In 4th. and 2 from the opponent's 36, and in other similar variations, the risk/reward proposition says it's a go-for-it situation most of the time for most teams. MM started to discover that by accident when he lost confidence in Crosby. I trust we'll see more of that regardless of the kicker.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
  11. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Not when you know how effective Plan C is.
     
  12. GoPGo

    GoPGo Cheesehead

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    Actually, since there are 32 kickers, 11th best would by definition be above average.

    You're right on the number per season, I concede. One other part of that equation though, not only is he asked to attempt a lot of 50 yarders, he has been asked to try quite a few 55+ yarders. It's hard to know exactly how many (at least I couldn't find any stats on it), but I know he has an attempt from 69 yards, 63 yards and at least one from 60 yards. There's also several from 55-60. A lot of kickers never attempt a 55 in their entire careers. That mitigates his 42% rate a good degree. I would guess his percentage from 50-54 is much more in line with other kickers.
     
  13. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    When the hell did MM send him out there to attempt a 69 yd FG ? That is insane !!!! I just don't remember that one.
     
  14. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Perhaps you misunderstood...11th. if we throw out all of CROSBY's +50's, NOT everybody's +50's. To repeat, that is sad. And as noted already, a guy just cut is 5% better from 30-49 without the head case risk.
     
  15. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    I wouldn't use the word "a lot." In 2012, teams asked their kickers to attempt 50+ on average 4.8 times. While Crosby was asked to do it 9 times last season, his career average is 5.5 attempts per season - ironically 4.8 times if you consider 2012 an outlier.

    As for kicking 55+....he did that twice last season, attempting 55 yards against the Giants and 58 yards against the Rams - both misses. He made FGs of 51 and 54 in Week 17 and Week 2 respectively while having misses of 50, 51, 51, 52, 53, 55, and 58.

    If you look back in the Crosby threads from last year, I was harping on MM's stubborn belief that he could force Crosby out of the slump. In the core of the slump while Crosby was badly missing from close range, McCarthy had him attempt 50+ four weeks in a row, Weeks 11-14. Crosby's FG% for 2012 was certainly lower because of McCarthy. The down and distance on his 50+yard attempts weren't insurmountable by the offense had they gone for it on 4th down.

    As for longest kicks, Crosby has a couple of 56 yarders under his belt as well as the all-time Packer record of 58 yards. His 69 yard attempt was against the Lions in 2008 on a free kick to end the half. The kick was on target but landed at the base of the goalpost
     
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  16. GoPGo

    GoPGo Cheesehead

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    Usually there's a reason kickers get cut. I'd be extremely cautions. Carpenter has had his own bouts with the yips in the past too. He's also always been a fair weather kicker. He only hit 72% at Montana. That doesn't inspire confidence as a cold weather kicker.
     
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  17. Poppa San

    Poppa San SB I trophy First of four Staff Member Moderator

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    I believe this was the last game I made it to. Vs DET? to finish a perfect 0-16 season.
     
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  18. Passepartout

    Passepartout Showers of April!

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    Hopefully Crosby will get his act together. But sadly it seems that he had a pretty bad camp. As who knows, maybe it is time for a change at K. Would hate to see Crosby go through.
     
  19. Shawnsta3

    Shawnsta3 Cheesehead

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    I'm not sure where you heard this, or it could possibly be old. Crosby has hit 19/21 field goals since family night ended.

    On a different note, as far as Carpenter goes when you have two kickers who are combining for 39/42 streak, I don't really see the need to bring in a different guy right before the season begins.
     
  20. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Well, there's a job for PFF...kicker splits above/below 45 degrees.
    In fact, Carpenter hit 73% at Montana, not 72%. However, here are his 4 year breakdowns:

    freshman: 62.1%
    sophmore: 66.7%
    junior: 80.0%
    senior: 82.6%


    Brrrr!

    And yet, you are enthusiastic about a Cal guy who kicked under balmy Pac 12 skies?

    Kickers often get cut or let go in FA because of the money. Very few spend their entire career with one team.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
  21. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    Maybe kicking isn't Mason's thing anymore.
    Try him out for back up QB to make that even more interesting.
     
  22. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Practice is one thing; go time is another.
     
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  23. Shawnsta3

    Shawnsta3 Cheesehead

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    55 yard kick to win the Super Bowl next year. Who ya got?

    Crosby, Tavecchio, Carpenter (Since he seems to be the hot name)
     
  24. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    None of the above. There isn't any kicker I'd ever expect to make a 55 yarder at the gun in the SB.

    There are better criteria, such as which kicker would you expect to have the highest conversion rate between 30 - 49 yards?
     
  25. GoPGo

    GoPGo Cheesehead

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    And we have 3 more preseason games to find out. If I were MM I would get him and Tavecchio every attempt I could at various distances, even if it meant kicking a few times on 1st, 2nd or 3rd down. It's been done before. I'd try to make sure they both get at least 2 shots per game.
     

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