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Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by spaulding, May 12, 2005.

  1. spaulding

    spaulding Cheesehead

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    DT from USC that is entering the supplemental draft. John Clayton says the Packers are one of several teams that may pick him up at the bottom of the first round. Thoughts?
     
  2. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    Spaulding - You got any more info on this guy....?
    If he's as big as I think he is...
    Do we have another Grady Jackson in our midst?
    Or, am I wrong about that....?

    It'd really be great to have another "dependable" Nose Tackle in the second ranks...
     
  3. spaulding

    spaulding Cheesehead

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  4. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    Height / Weight: 6-6 / 290

    I would really like to tandem this guy with Donnell and the new guy... Mike Montgomery

    This is the type of Defense I've always dreamed of for the Packers....
    Now - let's clone Gravedigger over & over.. then, we're set.

    Side note - Here's the thing, and me & my girl were just talkin' about this John -guy.... back during the SuperBowl run and on afterwards... we saw a certain scenario happening... Follow me, if you will, down memory lane...

    During the 95 & 96 Seasons, we had LeRoy Butler and (I think) Mike Prior (local guy, btw) both working the Safety positions.... I know Prior was there in the 96 season, but the 95 is a bit fuzzy... Anyway - as we've all read, Butler was the guy that made Sharper look outstanding in his first couple of seasons with the Packers... Then, after LeRoy got hurt, suddenly, the talent chart tooka dip... centerfield, so to speak. My thinking, is that even Mike Prior benefited from LeRoy Butler's expertise out there on the field... along with LeRoy's ability to be a "Teacher".... I've met Mike Prior down here last year during the Colts game - And he was pretty sloshed, even for a Catholic School Athletic Director... He didn't exactly have the LeRoy Butler charm, if ya know what I mean..... but I digress, he was partyin' and so was I... just the same, impressions are lasting... and I didn't get it that he was ALL-PRO when it comes to NFL football... I felt like he was just floatin' possibly on Butler's wings... if ya get my drift.

    To me - there were three, maybe four Players which significantly affected our SuperBowl run... they were:

    • Reggie White
      Brett Favre
      LeRoy Butler
      Desmond Howard
    In that order, too!

    Anyone got another take on that line of thought?
     
  5. Cheezy

    Cheezy Cheesehead

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    You guys i was wondering what is the supplemental draft? I only follow the regular draft. And plus why would we get another DT when we've got Washington, Lee, Jenkins, big Grady, and heck even Kenny Peterson, all who have been raved about as outstanding players by Bates.
     
  6. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    Cheezy - If we can afford the guy, for the right price - then I say go for it....
    It's been awhile since we've been this deep on Defense... couldn't hurt!
     
  7. spaulding

    spaulding Cheesehead

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    Who knows who we will wind up with at DT? We could lose hunt, lee, and peterson and not miss anything. Why not take a shot at somebody people are high on?
     
  8. slackerbacker

    slackerbacker Cheesehead

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    spaulding no offense, but that's what many of use were asking on draft weekend. Yes, they drafted some guys w/ speed, but can they play NFL football? Hard to be too high on a bunch of guys from small schools, mid-majors and no school at all. If they had NFL potential, why wouldn't they be playing at NFL feeder university programs? This kid sounds like another project; he couldn't break into the starting lineup, how's he going to help GB? I think the club would be much better off keeping a 1st or 2nd rd pick and hope another kid like Rogers falls in their laps. Better yet, trade the pick for an established NFL player who has proven he can make plays at this level.
     
  9. spaulding

    spaulding Cheesehead

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    Slacker-The first part of your argument fails-He went to the 2 time National champs USC. Why even bring up small schools? Second the guy was a SOPHOMORE playing behind two guys that were drafted 31st overall and 37th overall in this years draft. How could he break the starting line-up? According to scouts he's one of the best DT prospects in years. Would you rather have him or Hunt/Peterson/Cole/Lee? We can get this kid cheaper than a veteran DT and with more upside.
     
  10. slackerbacker

    slackerbacker Cheesehead

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    I'll give you that first point; it's about time they looked for players @ big time football schools! They have to be a cut above just to get into the university not to mention they practice everyday and play every week against stiff comp. There's no weeks off in a USC type program. It's just a shame they don't do it more often which is why I brought it up thank you very much. Depending on your definition of what a big time college football program is, GB drafted outside that circle @ least 6 or 7 times in this past draft. The real point is, he has no real track record and you and others want to spend a 1st or 2nd rd pick for a kid who hasn't proved anything @ the college level let alone the NFL? Secondly, aren't you one of the most vocal na sayers when it comes to what the so called "experts" think about a particular player? Why do you want to believe this report on this kid and not all the others on draft weekend? And you guys talk about Sherman throwing away picks?
     
  11. PackerTraxx

    PackerTraxx Cheesehead

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    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    One other guy that I believe was instrumental is Sean Jones, he was a leader on the defense. If we had kept him for the second SB we would not have lost. IMO
     
  12. spaulding

    spaulding Cheesehead

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    USC is a D-line factory. The kid has talent. Was just stuck behind two really good players.

    His pedigree from the USC Bio

    HIGH SCHOOL: He earned 2001 Super Prep All-American, Prep Star All-American, Tom Lemming All-American, Max Emfinger All-American, Student Sports All-American second team, Super Prep Elite 50, Prep Star Dream Team, Super Prep All-Far West, Prep Star All-Western Region, Student Sports All-West first team, Long Beach Press-Telegram Best in the West first team, Tacoma News Tribune Western 100, Orange County Register Fab 15 first team, Las Vegas Sun Super 11 first team, Cal-Hi Sports All-State first team, All-CIF Southern Section first team, All-CIF Division I Defensive MVP, Los Angeles Times All-Southeast/South Coast first team and Long Beach Press-Telegram Dream Team first team Defensive MVP honors as a senior defensive lineman at Poly High in Long Beach (Calif.). He had 142 tackles (60 solo), including 16 sacks, plus 4 fumble recoveries, 3 forced fumbles, 20 deflections and an interception. As a junior in 2000, he made Cal-Hi Sports All-State first team, Cal-Hi Sports All-State Underclass first team, All-CIF Division I first team and Long Beach Press-Telegram Dream Team first team while recording 95 tackles (57 solo), with 25 sacks. He was a 3-year starter as Poly went 39-1-1 and won 3 CIF Division I titles. Current Trojans Darnell Bing, Hershel Dennis and Winston Justice also prepped at Poly.

    2004: Wright was an often-used and effective backup defensive tackle behind Shaun Cody as a sophomore in 2004 and even started twice (BYU and Arizona) when Cody moved to end. Overall in 2004 while appearing in 11 games, he had 23 tackles, including 6 for losses of 17 yards (with 2 sacks for 10 yards), plus he deflected 2 passes and recovered 2 fumbles. He made 2004 All-Pac-10 honorable mention. He had a team-high 6 tackles (with 2 for losses, including a sack) and returned a fumble 20 yards for a TD against Colorado State. He added 3 tackles against California (with a key 5-yard sack on the Bears' failed last-minute scoring attempt) and Arizona State (with 0.5 sack and a deflection). He had 2 tackles, a fumble recovery and a deflection at Washington State. He posted 3 tackles (2.5 for loss) against Oklahoma. He was hampered during the second half of the year with a sprained right elbow that he hurt prior to the Arizona State game and then during the Washington contest. And he sprained his left ankle against Arizona, which sidelined him for USC's next 2 games (Notre Dame and UCLA).

    He makes plays behind the line of scrimmage and creates turnovers, 2 things our current line doesn't do.
     
  13. CaliforniaCheez

    CaliforniaCheez Cheesehead

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    You have to be careful in the supplemental draft. I don't follow college football much. What is this guy's problem?? Why is he in the supplemental draft??

    We took Wahle when he got kicked out of the Naval Academy for positive steroid test.

    The guy will take a couple of years of development because he is young. Who do you cut from the 53 man squad to add this guy? Can he beat out one of our DTs? Jackson, Hunt, Peterson, Lee, Washington, Jenkins
    If you think he is better than 2 of these then submit the sealed bid.

    Each team bids a round and highest drafting team in the round bid wins the player paying with that round from next years draft. Is he worth next years 2nd round pick?

    I don't know.
     
  14. PackerTraxx

    PackerTraxx Cheesehead

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    If the Pack feels he is a significant upgrade, then they should go for it. We have no pro bowl d-linemen.
     
  15. slackerbacker

    slackerbacker Cheesehead

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    This guy has proved nothing and using a supplemental pick on him is a huge risk. He has project stamped all over his forhead. They'll be several good DL available in next year's draft. Who knows, GB might even consider taking one unless of course there's some unknown player from whatsamatter U available.
     
  16. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    One thing, SB - I think Jim Bates is the difference maker this Season.
     
  17. spaulding

    spaulding Cheesehead

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    There's risk in using any draft pick. Jamal Reynolds ring a bell? The kid makes plays behind the line of scrimmage. No player in the front 7 besides KGB had more than 5 sacks last year. If not taken in the supplemental draft he will likely apply for the following nfl draft and be taken in the 1st round anyway. Everybody pisses and moan about them not adding pass rush-here you go.

    For slacker, who doesn't believe you can play football unless you go to a football powerhouse.

    Contributors to SB XXXI from Non-Football Factories

    Offense

    Brett Favre, Southern Miss
    Frank Winters, W. Illinois
    Adam Timmerman, South Dakota State
    Don Beebe, Chadron

    Defense
    Roderick Mullen, Grambling
    Doug Evans, LA Tech
    Mike Prior, Illinois State
    Eugene Robinson, Colgate
    Bob Kuberski, Navy
    Keith Mckenzie, Ball State
    Sean Jones, Northeastern
    Gabe Wilkins, Gardner-Webb

    Special Teams
    Chris Jacke UTEP
    Travis Jervey, The Citadel
     
  18. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    Nice post, Spaulding ----

    Mike Prior is actually the Athletic Director - here in Indianapolis - at St. Luke's Catholic School

    Also - side note - we have Chukie Nworkie lives here in the off-season and just recently got married.
     
  19. slackerbacker

    slackerbacker Cheesehead

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    There are draft risks and then there are huge risks. Taking a kid who hasn't even started 1 full season in college ball w/ a 1st or 2nd rd pick is a huge risk. Eric Swann ring a bell? There are a ton of players with great measureables...height, weight, etc who can't play. GB has several DL w/ measureables just like this kid whom Bates says he likes. So why take a risk on this kid? What's important is can a guy w/ great measureables play effectively in the NFL level. How would you know until he's proven it in college and or the NFL? Again, this kid has proved nothing, Bates likes their DL depth, and most importantly GBs picks should be savored and not thrown around like yesterday's news.

    Spaulding, I like to use history as a guide when possible and history tells us that GB has a propencity for drafting players from small or mid major programs. History also revels GB has not been real successful in their drafts because of it. 1 or 2 players a draft is reasonable, but any more than that and I think your really reaching. That's not what you want to do on draft day. Of the players you listed, only 1 was drafted w/ a #1 pick, most were drafted by other teams and then proved themselves in the NFL which is what made Wolf/Holmgren so shrude and successful during their tenure in GB. They, unlike Sherman & TT, sought out players like this and used them to supplement their drafts to build very good teams. It's a piece of the puzzle GB has been missing since Wolf left. Small school or big school it really doesn't make the difference. Can the player be effective in the NFL; that's the question that needs to be answered. I think it's fairly logical to assume a big time football school player has a much better chance of quickly adjusting to the NFL and producing at the NFL level based on a number of related factors. More improtantly, that's the type of young player GB needs while Farve is still under center. Ifen you had the time to research it, I would bet many more small school players aren't as productive nor do they last as long in the league as their big time school counter parts?
     
  20. spaulding

    spaulding Cheesehead

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    For every Eric Swann there is a Joe Horn-Itawamba CC. My point is talent is everywhere. Football aptitude matters more than anything else. Sharper played well, had a Wonderlic score of 25 and went to the football powerhouse William and Mary. You don't have to be from a big school to be productive and you don't have to be a 4 year starter to be productive. Wright probably would have started at any other school. Again the players ahead of him on the depth chart were drafted 31st and 37th overall in this years draft. When he got on the field he made plays--in the backfield.
     
  21. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    I think it's a bit early to call into question "Sherman & TT " as a success ratio, or not!
    This is the first year for this Tandem Tag Team..
    GB's new Dynamic Duo need to be given a fair chance, IMHO.....

    While the Big versus Small School thinking may have merits - where did Mike Wahle come from again? Even Wolf, I feel, had a pretty decent success ratio by not necessarily focusing on only the BIG School players.. many of which have, unto themselves, tended to be flops just as often as the Smaller Schools.

    In total, one could google the line of thought - wherein Round One draftees have fallen away from the NFL within (say) two, at most three, years and they are gone, totally out of football - probably Coaching somewhere... Who was that guy in Denver, a RB who was popular in the Chunky Soup Commercials and didn't last three years - he was gone.... Terrell Davis.. (knew I'd remember it).... Slated to be better than Emmitt Smith... well, we found out what happened there...

    Of course, no one wants to re-hash Green Bay's success with first round draft picks all that much either.. remember Mandarich?

    I say let's back off on calling TT's 1st round with drafting for GB a bust at this time....
    Give the DUO a break.

    SB - if that's not what you're leading to... then I digress.....
     
  22. slackerbacker

    slackerbacker Cheesehead

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    Yah, you both need to digress. I think I made my pts quite well and very reasonable. Both of you just continue to ignore them. The real question is does a team like GB w/ an aging HOF QB have time and money to spend on projects or are they better off drafting and signing well rounded college players who are MORE LIKELY (Probability here guys) of coming in and being able to contribute right away. The answer of course is GB doesn't have the time to wait on this type of player to develop! I basically admitted you can find talent anywhere, (history proves that) but the likely hood is you'll find a more polished guy from Wisconsin, Tennessee, Florida, USC, Miami etc. Did either one of you read Sherman's comments comparing Fergy and Murphy? A couple of JSONLINE articles earlier this year on Wells provided a lot of insight on what I am talking about as well. Why do both of you ignore the fact that Bates likes GB's DL depth. GB could've drafted a DL early this year and didn't; why would they want to spend an early pick on this guy now? The kid has barely been on the field let alone prove anything. If I had 10 @ bats and 3 hits, I guess you guys would have me pegged for the baseball HOF? GB will do what it wants to, I wouldn't spend a day one pick on this kid until he's proven something on the field.
     
  23. spaulding

    spaulding Cheesehead

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    Of course you think you made your points well. Everyone thinks they make their points well. Your just as guilty of ignoring our points as we are of yours in your viewpoint. You think that the Pack should draft immediate impact players. More polished guys. Wright's played for the 2 time defending national champs and rotated with--again--players taken 31st and 37th in the draft. Obviously he's receiving the best coaching out there. As for them coaching staff liking the DL depth, could it just possibly been lip service for the guy who just hired you and is still under fire for some of those picks? As for the small schools, here's some perspective-from 1991 to 2001 the Pack drafted 28 small schoolers, 23 before 1998. Using your thinking, shouldn't the Pack have drafted more polished players to improve depth, replace the FA's and extend the run? Wouldn't that be better? Apparently, crazy as it is, teams don't look at every small schooler as a project.
     
  24. arrowgargantuan

    arrowgargantuan Cheesehead

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    does this kid have any stats?

    if not, then slacker's reasoning makes perfect sense. seems like way too many question marks for anybody to seriously make a push for him. way too many unknowns ya know, ya know?
     
  25. spaulding

    spaulding Cheesehead

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    his bio was posted earlier. If the Pack doesn't draft him someone else will. Why not improve the weakest link. Was anybody happy with our pass rush last year?
     

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