Lets talk about anything EXCEPT Adrian Hubbard. (formerly Adrian Hubbard feels some MM love)

[GreenBaySlacker]

Im really not for Hubbard moving inside that much. I just prefer all options open. When someone tells me no, a 23 year old world class athlete can not play both inside or outside LB position. I just disagree.

 

[PikeBadger]

I think it's better to let HardRight speak for himself. In support of HardRight, faith, trust, and hope are not strategies - in sports, business, or life. Faith and Hope specifically belong in the realm of religion like Scientology and all the others I personally have no use for. I certainly do trust in TT's philosophy, but I'll wait and see how improved the D and STs are this year. Certainly with TT as GM I'm optimistic that his offseason moves will pay off - and I've said this elsewhere and it seems to give a lot of people gas - even given that this is the best O in the Rodgers era, it will take a top 10 effort from the D and STs to bring home the Lombardi trophy. Well either that or luck, which I also have no use for.

Disagree. Having trust and faith in your coaching staff to consistently develop talent into skilled players is absolutely imperative for a successful GM. I think it was HRE that mentioned hope and scientology which I guess would classify as a ........ Strawman ....... since Thompson didn't mention hope in regards to the defense.

A number of people here seem to interject their own personal opinions and philosophy of roster building into Thompson's actions, make absolute assessments of those actions or inactions and then repeat their mantra incessantly. I guess it's fine. Free speech and no requirement for any accountibility. If you're wrong in your assessments, I'm going to use my right to free speech, to never let other posters forget some of these snarky assessments. Your credibility is at stake.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

2014 the Packers kept both the Cowboys and the Seahawks below their season average in points, 2013 Packers held the only team they played below their season average, 2012 they held the Vikings below the average but the less said about the 49ers game the better, 2011....yeah, that sucked, 2010 they held 3 of 4 teams below their average in the playoffs and 2009 was also terrible defensively.

So, the Packers defense doesn't seem to do as well in the postseason, though in 3 years they did their job and in 3 years they didn't, but you would sort of expect that since the competition is much better in the playoffs.

The Seahawks scored 24.6 points on average during last season, so the Packers didn't hold them below that. I really don't give a damn about what the defense was able to accomplish against the Vikings in 2012 with Joe Webb as their QB.

BTW I don't consider holding an opponent below their season average as succesful, the only thing I care about is winning.

Before Peppers became a OLB at what? 35 years old? knuckles in the dirt his entire HOF career. It would be easy to point out the obvious in saying he would not be great in coverage, and completely discredit the option before he got a chance... In truth, he was a big play maker. His big plays outweighed the liability of his coverage skills. Our defense may have had to compensate in strategy to get it to work properly. But I would have a hard time finding anyone who says he didnt play well. especially after he settled in.

You see my point? we just dont know until we try.

Hubbard- 4.69 40. 38.5" verticle. 117 broad jump. On a 6'6" 257 pound frame... Seems like he is athletic enough to give it a try. 6'6" 38.5" verticle... standing in the middle knocking balls up in the air. thats what i see.

I won't even start talking about Peppers being a future HOFer or him being a special athlete or that playing DE in a 4-3 is pretty similar to OLB in a 3-4.

Hubbard ran a 4.58 20-yard shuttle (which measures change-of-direction ability) at his pro day, which is significantly slower than you would like for an inside linebacker. He doesn't have the required athleticism to play inside.

We have 15 LBs on the roster. Two future HOFers at OLB under contract for 2016. I speculate we will be more than fine for now. 2 drafts and 2 free agency's before it really becomes a potential problem. IMO Guys like Mulumba, and Elliot. Neal is a good contributor. Even if Thompson and Perry dont come to terms, and peppers retires. Mathews is interchangable. I suspect we will be just fine.

Matthews will continue to play inside, Peppers will start to decline at some point. Neal and Perry will become free agents after this season. Mulumba and Elliott have combined for one sack during their careers so far. It's possible OLB could be a position in dire need of an upgrade next offseason.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

You can quote all the stats you want regarding the Seattle game and nothing will change the fact Capers brittle defense fell apart again. Saying the defense "did their job" in that game is misguided.

Brittle is probably the wrong word. During earthquakes, the shaking can actually liquify sand. I'm not sure I can sum that analogy up in one word.

So, in your opinion, forcing Wilson into four interceptions (when he had a whopping 7 in the prior 17 games) and limiting him to 1 touchdown and barely 200 yards passing is a terrible defense?

You don't think the offense, which had six drives in the second half and managed a total of 6 points, had anything to do with the outcome in that game?

I think you're looking on the wrong side of the ball for the loss in the Seattle game.

 

[HardRightEdge]

So, in your opinion, forcing Wilson into four interceptions (when he had a whopping 7 in the prior 17 games) and limiting him to 1 touchdown and barely 200 yards passing is a terrible defense?

You don't think the offense, which had six drives in the second half and managed a total of 6 points, had anything to do with the outcome in that game?

I think you're looking on the wrong side of the ball for the loss in the Seattle game.

And in the last 5 minutes, it all falls apart. Brittle or a foundation of sand? You choose.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

The Seahawks scored 24.6 points on average during last season, so the Packers didn't hold them below that. I really don't give a damn about what the defense was able to accomplish against the Vikings in 2012 with Joe Webb as their QB.

BTW I don't consider holding an opponent below their season average as succesful, the only thing I care about is winning.

First, you can't evaluate a defense on "winning" because the offense and special teams have something to say about that (please see Seattle game).

Second, the defense only surrendered 22 points (special teams was on the hook for seven).

 

[Mondio]

Come on guys, can either of you REALLY say the loss was because of one side of the ball? They all played their part, in all 3 phases of the game, including the last 5 minutes. The offense churning out 3 and outs and dropping passes for 1st downs didn't do a thing to win us that game either.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

And in the last 5 minutes, it all falls apart. Brittle or a foundation of sand? You choose.

So the offense wasting 55 minutes of terrific defense isn't a factor? I'm getting the impression that if, for whatever reason, McCarthy decided to move Capers to offense that suddenly everything would be the offense's fault.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Come on guys, can either of you REALLY say the loss was because of one side of the ball? They all played their part, in all 3 phases of the game, including the last 5 minutes. The offense churning out 3 and outs and dropping passes for 1st downs didn't do a thing to win us that game either.

I actually don't put much of the loss on the defense. This team is built for the offense to win. The defense actually had a pretty phenomenal day considering where they were playing. The special teams, offense and coaching decisions, in my opinion, were the main factors in the loss. Sure, there were plays on defense that could have changed the outcome (like Dix deciding to catch invisible butterflies during the 2pt conversion) but the game should never have gotten to that point.

 

[PikeBadger]

[QUOTE="captainWIMM, post: 614234, member: 6794]


I won't even start talking about Peppers being a future HOFer or him being a special athlete or that playing DE in a 4-3 is pretty similar to OLB in a 3-4.


Matthews will continue to play inside, Peppers will start to decline at some point. Neal and Perry will become free agents after this season. Mulumba and Elliott have combined for one sack during their careers so far. It's possible OLB could be a position in dire need of an upgrade next offseason.[/QUOTE]

It's really not appropo to compare people to guys like Peppers, Watts, Woodson et al. When these guys leave it is not really possible to replace them and their production capabilities with a backup or draft pick. They are on a completely different plane than their peers.

 

[TJV]

IMO Mondio hit on it. Don’t you just love it when all three phases do their part? In this case obviously not. I don’t understand why a Packers fan would ignore the great job the Packers D did for the first 56 minutes of that game. Or that the offense didn’t do its job to close it out. Or the two huge plays on STs that led to 14 points for Seattle. Or the brain farts by individual players. Or the D’s collapse at the end. All were “necessary” for Seattle to win: It was a perfect **** storm for the Packers.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Disagree. Having trust and faith in your coaching staff to consistently develop talent into skilled players is absolutely imperative for a successful GM. I think it was HRE that mentioned hope and scientology which I guess would classify as a ........ Strawman ....... since Thompson didn't mention hope in regards to the defense.

A number of people here seem to interject their own personal opinions and philosophy of roster building into Thompson's actions, make absolute assessments of those actions or inactions and then repeat their mantra incessantly. I guess it's fine. Free speech and no requirement for any accountibility. If you're wrong in your assessments, I'm going to use my right to free speech, to never let other posters forget some of these snarky assessments. Your credibility is at stake.

You obviously missed the point of my reference to Scientology...it had nothing to do with hope. The strawman reference as well...in that case a pointed criticism of one aspect of the football operation was generalized as some kind of indictment of the operation as a whole.

As for accountability, at what point will you hold anyone in the organization accountable for these serial playoff blow ups? That goes to your credibility.

 

[HardRightEdge]

IMO Mondio hit on it. Don’t you just love it when all three phases do their part? In this case obviously not. I don’t understand why a Packers fan would ignore the great job the Packers D did for the first 56 minutes of that game. Or that the offense didn’t do its job to close it out. Or the two huge plays on STs that led to 14 points for Seattle. Or the brain farts by individual players. Or the D’s collapse at the end. All were “necessary” for Seattle to win: It was a perfect **** storm for the Packers.

I'll tell you why.

The Special Teams coach was fired, and it was overdue. Accountability...asked and answered.

Seattle fielded one of the best defenses in the last decade; that the offense would have some difficulties is expected.

Seattle's offense is not even designed to score in bunches. Those guys are built to run the ball, game manage and win low scoring games. Somehow, they were able to repeatedly zip up and down the field at will over those last 5 minutes.

At the time, I defended McCarthy's decisions to kick the close-in FGs and run the clock late. In retrospect, the critics of these decisions may be right...perhaps McCarthy should have anticipated that his defense could not close.

So, McCarthy has given up play calling. Did he do this because he's concluded that he's not very good at it? Or are there issues with the defense and special teams, where he pledged to be more fully engaged? Nobody questions the reasons behind his increased engagement with the ST. Why the defense as well? The dots are so close together they don't even need to be connected.

So these Pollyannas, Scientology auditors, or whatever they think they are, who believe the leaders in the organization are beyond reproach, find themselves in a box. They need to decide...is McCarthy overreacting and thereby misguided or does Capers need to have his boss get up in his business.

I strongly side with McCarthy.

 

[Mondio]

I don't think anybody is above reproach. I don't think anybody is overreacting either. I think McCarthy giving up some play calling responsibilities are a function of time more than anything. This is an org that has repeatedly given those who've earned it, opportunity and increased responsibility. I think that's what we're seeing here more than anything. Just like I think Edgar is being groomed as a headcoach one day, maybe not for GB, but for someone.

With his decreased role (MM) in the offense, it only make sense he'll increase his roles for other aspects. I'm sure some other things had a hand in this too, like Clay not being on the field and he wasn't sure why he wasn't available. Or that Sherman was injured and he wasn't made aware and the special teams gaffes. I'm sure that's all a part of it, but mostly I think it's about his eventual planned decrease in play calling. I'd be very surprised if this wasn't in the works for a season or 2 already before it was announced, though the timing seems suspicous from the outside.

 

[Joe Nor Cal Packer]

You can quote all the stats you want regarding the Seattle game and nothing will change the fact Capers brittle defense fell apart again. Saying the defense "did their job" in that game is misguided.

Brittle is probably the wrong word. During earthquakes, the shaking can actually liquify sand. I'm not sure I can sum up that analogy in one word.

Oh darn it HardRight - just when I was starting to feel good about the NFCCG because we held the Seahawks below their season average score (thanks Sunshine, what an appropriate user name!), you go and spoil it all by reminding me that, in fact, the Packers lost that game. What's wrong with you? Have you no compassion? Oh, the humanity, the humanity........ Brittle defense is right, and a ST coach who couldn't spell "cat" if you spotted him the "c" and the "t"....

 

[Poppa San]

Of the last dozen or so posts, none have been about Hubbard. Instead it has turned into another rehash of the NFCCG of which are many existing threads without needing to hijack another. At what point will this get back on track?

 

[Joe Nor Cal Packer]

Of the last dozen or so posts, none have been about Hubbard. Instead it has turned into another rehash of the NFCCG of which are many existing threads without needing to hijack another. At what point will this get back on track?

Guilty as charged Poppa San. Back to Hubbard. What amazes me is that he was not drafted. Alabama pedigree, great measurables, and apparently a very bad attitude. From one report, he seems to act as if the world owes him something. Even if that were half right, I gotta believe someone would have taken a chance on him. Maybe not being drafted gave him the attitude adjustment he needed. If that happened, and MM and the coaches can get the best out of him, he may be a huge steal. This is a case that I suppose will be decided in TC and the pre-season games. I hope so. Why would a deltoid strain keep him out of the shuttle and 3-cone drill though? I don't get that.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I don't think anybody is above reproach. I don't think anybody is overreacting either. I think McCarthy giving up some play calling responsibilities are a function of time more than anything. This is an org that has repeatedly given those who've earned it, opportunity and increased responsibility. I think that's what we're seeing here more than anything. Just like I think Edgar is being groomed as a headcoach one day, maybe not for GB, but for someone.

With his decreased role (MM) in the offense, it only make sense he'll increase his roles for other aspects. I'm sure some other things had a hand in this too, like Clay not being on the field and he wasn't sure why he wasn't available. Or that Sherman was injured and he wasn't made aware and the special teams gaffes. I'm sure that's all a part of it, but mostly I think it's about his eventual planned decrease in play calling. I'd be very surprised if this wasn't in the works for a season or 2 already before it was announced, though the timing seems suspicous from the outside.

The idea that McCarthy is giving up play calling as a mentoring exercise is magical thinking.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Of the last dozen or so posts, none have been about Hubbard. Instead it has turned into another rehash of the NFCCG of which are many existing threads without needing to hijack another. At what point will this get back on track?

Well done.

 

[TJV]

I'll tell you why.

You did not give a reason to ignore the fantastic job the D for the first 56 minutes of that game. And more important, it wasn't only the D that didn't close: With 6:53 left the Packers went three and out and punted the ball with 5:22 left. 3 plays, 6 yards, 1:40. After the INT the Packers got the ball back with 5:04 left at their 43. A run for -4. Another run for -2 and a run for 2 yards. 3 plays, -4 yards, 1:12. Seattle scores in 1:43 so with 2:09 left they KO to the Packers. If the Packers recover the game is probably over. Instead Seattle recovers the onside kick.

A couple of first downs on either of those drives and Seattle runs out of time. “Remarkably” when the Packers get the ball back with 1:25 left, they drive 48 yards in 7 plays and make three consecutive first downs on that drive – worth 42 yards - to score the FG. One or two of those play calls with that execution on the earlier drives and the game is over.

If Peppers doesn’t convince Burnett to go down the game is probably over – and that had nothing to do with Capers or his scheme.

In spite of being reminded right before the onside kick, Bostic ignores his assignment and botches the play.

So it wasn’t just the D that didn’t close. McCarthy’s play calling didn’t close. The execution of the O on two consecutive drives didn’t close. Peppers and Burnett didn’t close. STs and Bostic didn’t close. I'll say it again, there's no reason to ignore the great job the D did for 56 minutes of that game and IMO you have to ignore reality to blame only the D for not closing.

I like that McCarthy is taking charge of the entire team. It is certainly to help the STs - perhaps he would have alerted that unit to watch for the fake FG. And it is certainly to help out the D, reportedly including giving them a QB's perspective. But it should also help him see the big picture and put the game away on offense when the opportunity arises. You're right, Seattle fielded a great D, but the Packers fielded the #1 scoring offense. All three phases of the Packers team didn't close at Seattle and I hope McCarthy gave up play calling with all three in mind.

 

[Joe Nor Cal Packer]

You did not give a reason to ignore the fantastic job the D for the first 56 minutes of that game. And more important, it wasn't only the D that didn't close: With 6:53 left the Packers went three and out and punted the ball with 5:22 left. 3 plays, 6 yards, 1:40. After the INT the Packers got the ball back with 5:04 left at their 43. A run for -4. Another run for -2 and a run for 2 yards. 3 plays, -4 yards, 1:12. Seattle scores in 1:43 so with 2:09 left they KO to the Packers. If the Packers recover the game is probably over. Instead Seattle recovers the onside kick.

A couple of first downs on either of those drives and Seattle runs out of time. “Remarkably” when the Packers get the ball back with 1:25 left, they drive 48 yards in 7 plays and make three consecutive first downs on that drive – worth 42 yards - to score the FG. One or two of those play calls with that execution on the earlier drives and the game is over.

If Peppers doesn’t convince Burnett to go down the game is probably over – and that had nothing to do with Capers or his scheme.

In spite of being reminded right before the onside kick, Bostic ignores his assignment and botches the play.

So it wasn’t just the D that didn’t close. McCarthy’s play calling didn’t close. The execution of the O on two consecutive drives didn’t close. Peppers and Burnett didn’t close. STs and Bostic didn’t close. I'll say it again, there's no reason to ignore the great job the D did for 56 minutes of that game and IMO you have to ignore reality to blame only the D for not closing.

I like that McCarthy is taking charge of the entire team. It is certainly to help the STs - perhaps he would have alerted that unit to watch for the fake FG. And it is certainly to help out the D, reportedly including giving them a QB's perspective. But it should also help him see the big picture and put the game away on offense when the opportunity arises. You're right, Seattle fielded a great D, but the Packers fielded the #1 scoring offense. All three phases of the Packers team didn't close at Seattle and I hope McCarthy gave up play calling with all three in mind.

With all respect, it was the outcome of that game, not how well the Packers performed for 56 minutes of a 60 minute game, that matter to me. A loss is a loss is a failure. Period.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Guilty as charged Poppa San. Back to Hubbard. What amazes me is that he was not drafted. Alabama pedigree, great measurables, and apparently a very bad attitude. From one report, he seems to act as if the world owes him something. Even if that were half right, I gotta believe someone would have taken a chance on him. Maybe not being drafted gave him the attitude adjustment he needed. If that happened, and MM and the coaches can get the best out of him, he may be a huge steal. This is a case that I suppose will be decided in TC and the pre-season games. I hope so. Why would a deltoid strain keep him out of the shuttle and 3-cone drill though? I don't get that.

A minor heart abnormality, which was discovered at the combine, probably factored into Hubbard not getting drafted.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/258827791.html

 

[PikeBadger]

I'll tell you why.

The Special Teams coach was fired, and it was overdue. Accountability...asked and answered.

Seattle fielded one of the best defenses in the last decade; that the offense would have some difficulties is expected.

Seattle's offense is not even designed to score in bunches. Those guys are built to run the ball, game manage and win low scoring games. Somehow, they were able to repeatedly zip up and down the field at will over those last 5 minutes.

At the time, I defended McCarthy's decisions to kick the close-in FGs and run the clock late. In retrospect, the critics of these decisions may be right...perhaps McCarthy should have anticipated that his defense could not close.

So, McCarthy has given up play calling. Did he do this because he's concluded that he's not very good at it? Or are there issues with the defense and special teams, where he pledged to be more fully engaged? Nobody questions the reasons behind his increased engagement with the ST. Why the defense as well? The dots are so close together they don't even need to be connected.

So these Pollyannas, Scientology auditors, or whatever they think they are, who believe the leaders in the organization are beyond reproach, find themselves in a box. They need to decide...is McCarthy overreacting and thereby misguided or does Capers need to have his boss get up in his business.

I strongly side with McCarthy.

Pollyanna and Scientology auditor weighing in here.
I'm not in a box however. I also don't think the org leadership are beyond reproach. As head coach, McCarthy needs to be in Capers business. I'm just more accepting of the fact that there are other really good teams in the NFL and they are capable of winning playoff games and championships as well. We don't operate in a vacuum. Every Sunday is an opposing force consisted of professionals. This organization is very successful measured against it's peers. I'm not going to slam leadership and coaches because of poor execution by several players in the last 5 minutes.

 

[TJV]

With all respect, it was the outcome of that game, not how well the Packers performed for 56 minutes of a 60 minute game, that matter to me. A loss is a loss is a failure. Period.

With all respect, you didn't understand my post. The point was not only how well the Packers played for 56 minutes, it was the blame for the loss should not be confined to the defense. It was a “perfect **** storm” with all three units of the team failing to close. IMO it’s foolish to ignore any portion or aspect of that game. Certainly how well they played for 56 minutes gives them a blueprint for beating the Seahawks and how the offense, defense, and STs failed at the end of the game point to what has to be corrected. As I posted, I hope (and believe) addressing all three from a “macro view” is why McCarthy gave up play calling. Failing to fully evaluate a loss is a failure. Period.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I'll tell you why.

The Special Teams coach was fired, and it was overdue. Accountability...asked and answered.

Seattle fielded one of the best defenses in the last decade; that the offense would have some difficulties is expected.

Seattle's offense is not even designed to score in bunches. Those guys are built to run the ball, game manage and win low scoring games. Somehow, they were able to repeatedly zip up and down the field at will over those last 5 minutes.

At the time, I defended McCarthy's decisions to kick the close-in FGs and run the clock late. In retrospect, the critics of these decisions may be right...perhaps McCarthy should have anticipated that his defense could not close.

So, McCarthy has given up play calling. Did he do this because he's concluded that he's not very good at it? Or are there issues with the defense and special teams, where he pledged to be more fully engaged? Nobody questions the reasons behind his increased engagement with the ST. Why the defense as well? The dots are so close together they don't even need to be connected.

So these Pollyannas, Scientology auditors, or whatever they think they are, who believe the leaders in the organization are beyond reproach, find themselves in a box. They need to decide...is McCarthy overreacting and thereby misguided or does Capers need to have his boss get up in his business.

I strongly side with McCarthy.

McCarthy stepped down mainly (at least this SHOULD be the main reason) because nobody on offense knew that Thomas and Sherman were playing injured or that maybe the special teams shouldn't have been on the field for the fake FG since three points would have done NOTHING for Seattle and the team could have just left the defense on the field. There was nobody looking at the whole picture to tell the receivers that, "hey, maybe you should take advantage of a safety with a dislocated shoulder".

Your excuse for the offense not performing is that the Seattle defense is REALLY good?! The Packer's offense was REALLY good too! The Packer's defense (which apparently is awful) gave the Packer's offense FOUR EXTRA POSSESSIONS. So, does an elite defense get eight turnovers?

Seattle moved up and down the field over the last five minutes because Matthews decided to take himself out of the game (I'm sure Capers asked him nicely to go sit on the bench) and the defensive line rotation for this team consists of Mike Daniels and......well, maybe the Packers will have a decent rotation this year?

Oh yeah, and Capers also asked Dix to forgot how to control his limbs during a 2-pt conversion and also asked Williams to forget how to play corner and let an undrafted free agent WR beat him deep. I also have an unnamed source that told me that prior to every field goal defense, Capers pulled Brad Jones aside and told him to run inside and forget outside contain.