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Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback is..

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Cal2GreenBay, Mar 10, 2008.

  1. Cal2GreenBay

    Cal2GreenBay Cheesehead

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    I've read some posts about people trying to define what Aaron Rodgers is going to be as a QB.

    People keep saying he's going to be a "game managing" quarterback and be told to not "make mistakes."

    By defining Aaron as this...you're saying he's a QB who's not supposed to LOSE a game. So he's to play to not lose. Ultra conservative of sorts.

    You guys define Brett Favre as a "play to win" QB. He's a "gunslinger", he's a "gambler". He makes the "big throw". He's the game decider..

    I want to make something VERY CLEAR here....

    Aaron Rodgers is MUCH MORE than just a game manager as defined currently in the forum.

    There's two ends of the spectrum of a "game manager"

    Trent Dilfer was the kind of "game manager" you guys describe when he was in Baltimore Just play ball control and make "safe" throws. Trent never WON games..but was so worried about not LOSING them, that he never really did flourish as a QB. They depended on their defense to win.

    Joe Montana is the OTHER end of a "game managing" QB. Joe Montana was incredibly efficient. He KILLED teams w/his "game managing" efficiency and limitations of errors. He was like a "surgeon" QB who picked you apart little by little, and beat you like a chess game...unlike Favre who was trying to get you w/the glorious knock out punches...
    Montana's were quick jabs that rendered the opponent defenseless in the end.

    Aaron is on the Joe Montana end of "game managing". Now let me make this clear. I AM NOT COMPARING HIM TO MONTANA.

    I'm just giving you guys Aaron's PLAN OF ATTACK and his style of play. He PATTERNS his game after Montana. There ARE similarities...but I am NOT comparing him to Montana. Just helping clarify his QB style to you guys.

    Aaron is an ATTACKING quarterback who attacks in a cerebral way.
    He is not playing to NOT LOSE. He's playing to win..and he wants to CRUSH the opponent. Not just BEAT them barely..he wants to demolish them w/precision.

    Aaron's CAL footbal team didn't just barely beat people. They crushed them. Not w/50 yard bombs at inopportune times risking interception.
    He crushed them w/23 straight completions..w/passes right on the shoulder of the receiver where the defender couldn't get to it.

    To sum up.

    Aaron's an ATTACKING cerebral QB who plays to win.
    He's a "game manager" in the sense of playing a precise, cerebral game and picking you apart like a surgeon w/very little mistakes.

    BY no means is he playing not to lose and worry about mistakes like Trent Dilfer.

    TT and MM have not coached him to play not to lose and make 10-12 passes a game like Dilfer did in Baltimore.

    TRUST ME. TT and MM are grooming Aaron to take advantage of his skills of accuracy, preciscion, and mobility. He'll be throwing as much as Favre for sure. They're not going to "HOLD BACK" their offense for Aaron. They've been waiting for this. MM has a package just for Aaron and it's going to be quite aggressive.

    The only difference is Aaron's CREATIVE WITHIN the gameplan, and Favre is creative outside of it. That's what Aaron means by him saying "Brett did it his way...I'll do it my way". Montana was a genius QB, and improvised but all within the gameplan and not w/such gamble.

    By this clarification..I think you guys can get excited about what Aaron's about to do next season.
     
  2. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    An with that.. the era of Rodgerism has begun.. move over Favre firsters.. another train is pulling in.

    I think Aaron has had to little time in to define his style in my eyes within the NFL.. so for me, he is an unknown until he plays week in and out on the field.

    1. Can he stay healthy?
    2. Can he be the leader and have other follow him into the fray?
    3. Can he overcome adversity?
    4. What style will he play with?

    But Cal2GB.. heck of a post, you seem to know ;) him better than the rest of us.. so hopefully you are correct.
     
  3. MassPackersFan

    MassPackersFan Cheesehead

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    It's just words. I happen to agree with you that he is more than a game manager.

    But what is a game manager? Hmmm.... [​IMG] This?
     
  4. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    Cal - I was one of the people who said game manager, but not in an insulting way. his completion percentage is very high (in college) and he's a very accurate QB. He can attack in many ways and is also a decent scrambler, which ironically we might see more of in his NFL career than his college career. I think his scrambling is better now than it was in college.

    Yes, I see him closer to Montana than Dilfer. He threw 26 straight completions once in college (23 in the same game) and had a ridiculously high QB rating.

    Comparing him to Favre is apples to oranges, so I won't even bother. He's very different, and he should have a good career with the Packers and hopefully bring us some Lombardis. I'm looking forward to seeing him play.
     
  5. trippster

    trippster Cheesehead

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    Re: Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback

    I am glad to have Mr. Tedford on our forum!!! :wink:

    I hope you are right Cal. I really do. I think he will do fine. No Brett Favre but he will be fine for us.

    We must change our expectations. This year coming up could be an amazing year.....or one of huge dissapointments and a lot of "if only"s.

    My main concern is what Aaron cannot replace that favre had. Experience.
     
  6. Cal2GreenBay

    Cal2GreenBay Cheesehead

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    Re: Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback

    No problem Zombie..I didn't think of it as insulting at all.
    I just wanted all of us on the same page, since we're all fans and I was sharing as much info as I could.

    Aaron didn't scramble as much in college, because his offense didn't call for it. That's why there wasn't as much body of work to judge his mobility.

    They saw Alex Smith run like a gazelle in his Run and Chuck offense that Urban Meyer masquerades as an offense when back in UTAH and got the 49ers to bite..and you see how Alex Smith is panning out.

    Aaron was in a more sophisticated offense from Tedford than Smith was in Utah w/Urban Meyer(now in Florida). McCarthy and Tedford actually spoke in length on Aaron's pro-day and that's why McCarthy PICKED Aaron over Alex Smith in the draft and was overruled by Mike Nolan. And you can see how Mike Nolan is panning out.

    As Aaron says..judge him by his body of work over a 16 game season. He'll be plenty durable. He's closer to Favre than he is Rex Grossman in terms of durability. Next year will show it.

    Also remember guys that Aaron was plenty nimble, and remember the guy shovel passed a touchdown in the pre-season. That was fun AND creative.

    You'll see a lot of that next year.
     
  7. Cal2GreenBay

    Cal2GreenBay Cheesehead

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    Re: Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback

    Hehe..I'm a Cal grad Tripp....all of us have to know the offense as students of UC Berkeley as much as the Cal football players do.

    It's not rocket science but darn near close...hehe

    (BTW..I actually DO know Tedford's offensive terminology and plays...I have friends on the team...)...if you guys are interested in how it contrasts w/McCarthy's ..I can post it.
     
  8. Cal2GreenBay

    Cal2GreenBay Cheesehead

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    Re: Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback

    Exactly Pack93z, The 4 questions you have are the ones I have for him as well.
     
  9. PackOne

    PackOne Cheesehead

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    Re: Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback

    I like his chances.
     
  10. Greg C.

    Greg C. Cheesehead

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    Good post, Cal. The "game manager" term gets thrown around too freely sometimes. In fact, a lot of people were saying that Favre was a "game manager" under Mike McCarthy.

    I think some of Favre's attitude has rubbed off on Rodgers, and that may be the final ingredient for him to become a really good NFL quarterback. He has the smarts, the physical skills, and a good supporting cast. I think the biggest question is whether he can handle the pressure. There will be a huge hole in this organization for years to come, because Favre was not only a great QB, but a larger-than-life personality. The only way to avoid a massive letdown among fans will be to keep winning a lot of ballgames, and that task will fall more on Aaron's shoulders than any one other person. I'm eager to find out how he handles it. My hunch is that he'll do fine.
     
  11. Cal2GreenBay

    Cal2GreenBay Cheesehead

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    Re: Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback

    Aaron's dad ED in an article about Aaron..mentions that of his 3 sons..Aaron was always the one who wanted the ball at the end of the game. He wanted to take the big shot, the big throw and always thrived under that pressure.

    This dude's been groomed for this. He does very well under pressure and shines. That's what makes Rodgers special.

    I saw him BEAT USC and I saw him almost beat them twice.
    I saw how calm/cool he was under extreme duress...

    When he has confidence in the system and his coaches and team..he's incredible under pressure. Under Tedford, the players felt they could play w/anyone.

    Under McCarthy..Aaron feels the same way.

    Again..you guys will be surprised..and be very pleased w/how he plays.

    I understand that the NFL is a whole lot bigger level of pressure, and following HOF QB Brett Favre is as well. But you got the right guy to do it.
     
  12. trippster

    trippster Cheesehead

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    You make me feel good about Aaron.


    Can you call him and tell him to keep the stache?

    (could Cal2GB be Aaron himself???) Now that would be a scoop!
     
  13. Cal2GreenBay

    Cal2GreenBay Cheesehead

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    Re: Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback

    I'm in California. behind a desk in my 33 year old body.

    Aaron's in Green Bay enjoying status as the man of the Packers.

    We're NOT the same people =)

    I do go to all the CAL games though!

    And FOR THE RECORD. My knowledge about Aaron is not that much.
    The other CAL Bears alumni know WAY MORE than I do.

    Try the forum on bearsinsider.com (Cal Football forum)
    and you'll see fans who know what Aaron eats for lunch..
     
  14. Raider Pride

    Raider Pride Cheesehead

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    Cal,

    This is exactly why I log on here daily. This is an example of a very, very, very good post. Thought provoking, intelligent, and insightful are three things that come to mind right now.

    Well Done!

    R.P.
     
  15. PackinSteel

    PackinSteel Cheesehead

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    Re: Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback

    Playing to NOT lose works for most fans :)

    Nice read Cal, thanks for the post. As long as the guy didn't develop Clipboard Elbow in the last 3 yrs I think he'll do just fine.
     
  16. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    Re: Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback

    Cal - Please do. Would be an interesting read.
     
  17. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    Re: Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback

    Cal - Slightly off topic, just wanted to let you know, I try to catch at least one Cal game a year. A lot of fun. Since moving back to the Bay Area, I became kind of a Cal fan. I especially root for Cal when they play the University of Spoiled Children, my least fave team (well, them and the Texas Aggies).
     
  18. Cal2GreenBay

    Cal2GreenBay Cheesehead

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    Re: Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback

    Thanks Raider Pride. I hope I can help bring as much info to the group as possible.
     
  19. Cal2GreenBay

    Cal2GreenBay Cheesehead

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    Re: Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback

    I think I got Clipboard elbow at my cube..been at it 10 years =)
     
  20. Cal2GreenBay

    Cal2GreenBay Cheesehead

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    Re: Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback

    Yeah Zombie..the games are much better these days.
    At least when they were winning.

    It's not like the SEC in terms of fan obsession(because they have nothing else going on out there)...but it's definitely getting there.

    During the CAL-Tennessee game about 15k Tenn fans showed up and you could hear them chear through the stadium. Finally the reamining 50K Cal Fans drowned them out.
     
  21. Cal2GreenBay

    Cal2GreenBay Cheesehead

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    Re: Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback

    The gist of it is that the Jeff Tedford's offense has two zones of reads..the right and left side of the field. For his more "dumber" QBs....(David Carr, and most especially Kyle Boller)...he had them concentrate on HALF the field.

    All Boller did was look at the left side of the field and throw to receivers who went through zones on that side of the field. the 10 yard, 20 yard and 30 yard zones. The problem w/BOLLER is that he would eyeball his receiver throughout and telegraph everything. David Carr..same thing.

    When Tedford was more confident in his QBs..he combined the left and right zones. Only Rodgers, and their current QB Nate Longshore have gone to two zones. Kevin Riley their younger QB in waiting is also a two zone Tedford QB.

    Boller couldn't grasp making reads across the field so Tedford left him in one zone and just him do what he did well. Minimized his mistakes.

    Gave him a safe window to throw into.

    That's why you see Boller struggle so much in the NFL
    He can't scan the entire field. It took him 3 years to develop that. It takes time to learn it, and it also takes time to excel IN it.. Boller is JUST getting it...and has one more year to show he's got something.

    Tedford didn't have to do that w/Rodgers.

    W/Rodgers..Aaron understood both zones...and could go through a full field progression..but he still favored one zone. It's just the way Tedford's offense is. He didn't eye down half the field like bowler.

    Tedford had a checkerboard w/the zones to throw to and the defenses aligned to stop it. He had Aaron master the audibles and protections and plays that would attach each defensive alignment. Aaron had that memorized in 2-3 weeks.

    And Aaron was deadly accurate. He threw right at receiver's off shoulders where they could catch it and the corner couldn't touch it. That wasn't a part of the offense..that was Aaron's natural ability. Their current CAL QB Nate Longshore doesn't have anywhere near that accuracy and the results show.

    Rodgers even admitted in his rookie year (in packers.com) in a preseason interview that at CAL they had the 2 zones for the field and it was hard to adjust to the spread offense of Tom Rossleys. Rossley had a spread field
    w/his progression of reads w/out any zoning and each receiver had to be thrown to in a tiny space.

    It's a big adjustment for a college QB to get. That just means the targets are that much smaller.

    (to keep it simple..most college QBs are given large target areas to throw into..thats' why they look good and look accurate...in the NFL those windows are not there).

    Aaron adjusted, but the terminology switch from Tedford to Rossley was pretty severe. Eventhough the concepts were the same.

    When Mike McCarthy came in, McCarthy already had a relationship w/Aaron and discussed offense at CAL's proday. He also understood the system Aaron came from through Tedford.

    Through QB school, Rodgers has been able to meld the two terminologies and really get a grasp of the West Coast Offense w/McCarthy's terminology.

    The formations in Tedford's offense and McCarthy's are very similar
    The terminology, cadence, and how to scan the field are different.

    That's why you see Aaron playing much better in his 2nd and 3rd year than in his first. He had to process the plays in translation to the plays he understood at CAL. You can't do that at game speed and find the right throw.

    Now..he's past that and looks at the field like a checker/chessboard again.

    I could go into detail about the play breakdown further but I'll save that before writing a novel.
     
  22. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    Re: Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback

    Aaron-Firsters?

    All 1 of em?
     
  23. favre2driver

    favre2driver Cheesehead

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    I like his potential, but he has little experience and what worries me the most is his injury issues.
     
  24. rabidgopher04

    rabidgopher04 Cheesehead

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    Cal2GreenBay , how do you know so much about Cal/Tedford? Thanks for the great posts!
     
  25. Raider Pride

    Raider Pride Cheesehead

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    Re: Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback

    RYAN.

    I know you have the salary cap space.


    Please lock this guy up as a long term Packerforum contributor, give him the title of "The P.F. Special Assignment Reporter On The Development Of Young Aaron Rodgers."

    I will get take the ownership of getting him to log into "TROM'S Game Day Chat Drunk Fest." and then we can pick apart his real life.

    Cal is bringing us all some really great thread stuff here.

    R.P.
     

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