Let Finley become a Free Agent

[okcpackerfan]

B.S. Mike McCarthy has said on multiple occasions that he is one of the hardest workers on the team. He's often the last to leave the workout room.

I think you misunderstood what I meant. I meant work harder and focus ON THE FIELD because I do not know what goes on behind the scenes or in practice. It is apparent and clearly obvious that he takes plays off during games and lacks concentration on catches. that said i want to keep him.

 

[okcpackerfan]

In Vernon Davis and Idiot Gronkowski's cases, they're on teams where their QBs only have 2 or 3 legit options and in Graham's case he's playing with a QB who historically has a habit of picking a favorite receiver and going to him first all year (for all Bree's great qualities, ball distribution has never been one of them).

not trying to be nit-picky but drew brees did a much better job of distributing the ball to different receivers this year than rodgers did. Hell Tom Brady did a better job than Rodgers. Drew Brees had 6 receivers who caught 40 or more balls. Tom Brady had 4. Rodgers had 3.

 

[bozz_2006]

Just out of curiosity, I wonder how many of theirs and our guys caught over 30. Over 20.

 

[ivo610]

This is the most ridiculous nonsensical analogy I've heard in relation to Finley.

Look at our offense last year and then look at it this year. It's not even a comparison. And given how much *** our defense sucks, we need all the offensive firepower we can get. Because there is no guarantee that even with our focus this offseason directed solely towards improving the defense, that it will result in a defense that is championship caliber, especially if we don't have Nick Collins.

We did a lot of things during our superbowl run without a lot of key players, but that doesn't mean that the players we did it without, we don't need.

We won the Superbowl without Charles Woodson, Donald Driver. Would you say we don't need these guys either?

Matt Flynn hung 40 some points on the Lions and passed for 6 touchdowns. Clearly he's on Rodgers level. We should save ourselves some money and just cut Rodgers.

See how retarded that is?

Stop being idiots people. Go ahead and let him test Free Agency and watch him get scooped up in less than a week. A tight end who's only problems is inconsistent hands? Any team would be willing to take a chance on that especially a guy who can stretch the field and help their offense.

The offense last season as a whole actually improved when Finley went down. While you might not like the sample size the statement is true.

Pretty sure Woodson played in every single game in 2010 and Driver only missed 1. Wait are you comparing Missing the majority of the season to missing part of a single game? Sounds like a stretch.

Would I say we dont need Driver or Woodson? I would say your going to have a team next season without Driver in all likely hood and I would also say Woodson is a liability on defense. He gambles and creates turnovers but also gets lit up frequently. I have serious concerns about him next season, as you have been able to see the decline since 09.

Changing QBs is completely different than letting your TE test FA. I can clearly see this upsets you a great deal but lets try and stay on topic.

 

[realcaliforniacheese]

I feel its in the best interest of the Franchise to let Finley test Free Agency. For 2 reasons

1. His demands are too high as progress is not being made on his contract according to media reports.

2. If tagged he will lobby to be tagged as a WR. This would make him extremely overpaid. Even being franchised as a TE would make him overpaid.

If TT keeps close contact with Finley and his agent they will get a chance to beat any offer that comes Finleys way. Most likely this will be much less than Jermichael expected. This is the golden era of TEs. Most teams have a decent TE and more than ever many teams have pro bowl level TEs.

At worst he walks, we won without him so I have no doubt we could do it again.

Who are you going to replace him with. Even when he is not catching the ball he is a matchup issue DC's have to deal with and cover. This opens up space for others. Finley has yet to hit his peak and losing a TE like him would be crazy unless you have a Gronk or Graham waiting in the wings. We were 15-1 with this offense, TT may give him a big contract but it will be based on performance.

 

[Bogart]

For everyone that blames our offense for losing in the playoffs, he is public enemy #1 as far as dropped passes go.

I don't want him back, his ego and all the dropped passes can go. i had a feeling it was going to happen in the playoffs. We would have a key 3rd down situation, and he would drop a ball, and sure enough he did on a 3rd and 5 call, since McCarthy already had panicked the game out the window and went for it on 4th down when it was still a 7 point game.

You know why he drops passes?
He knows about to get knocked down on his *** by a CB or Safety that will hurt you.

Compare that to Jimmy Graham, Vernon Davis, and Rob Gronkowski; those guys make the catches regardless if they are going to get hit or not. There's no way Finley will ever rank in the category of those guys if he's too chicken **** to catch. He was in the top 5 of dropped passes this season, and he didn't start dropping them until he *****ed about not getting the ball thrown to him enough. Case closed, let his ego go to the Eagles or Jets where he will fit in with all the big heads that think they are the greatest thing since a slice of bread.


As far as Finley being a great match up, that don't matter if he drops the ****ing ball all day long. They aren't going to care about that. Graham and Davis are even better match ups as a TE against a defense, because they catch the damn ball!

BTW we won a Super Bowl without his arrogant waste of space.

 

[ivo610]

Pro Football Focus has Finley graded out to be the 37th overall TE in the league last season and graded him out as the 20th TE just based on receiving. They also have him listed as having the most drops of any TE and 5th if you would include WRs.

Not saying dont sign him, just saying let him test the market. James Jones thought he was going to hit the jackpot last season and found out the market wasnt that high on him. (same guy the fans say trade for someones best defensive player lol)

 

[bozz_2006]

I trust Ted to let him go if it really is a lost cause. Bogart, If you're right about him, and that he won't get his game fixed, then I agree with your conclusion. But I don't agree. That's ok. If he is let go, it'll be because Ted thinks the same as you, generally speaking. I hope that doesn't happen though.

 

[ivo610]

Who are you going to replace him with. Even when he is not catching the ball he is a matchup issue DC's have to deal with and cover. This opens up space for others. Finley has yet to hit his peak and losing a TE like him would be crazy unless you have a Gronk or Graham waiting in the wings. We were 15-1 with this offense, TT may give him a big contract but it will be based on performance.

I dont think you need to replace him. I think the offense would function fine without him. You still have Rodgers and the best set of WRs in the league.

While I see the potential for greatness, I dont think he is nearly as good as Packer fans seem to think he is.

 

[Bogart]

If Finley does get a big contract, what do people expect out of that?

Fitzpatrick got a big contract half way into the season with the Bills, and he proceeded to throw picks like crazy after he started so well.

Michael Vick became the highest paid quarterback going into this season and did he look like he deserved it all year throwing picks?


Chris Johnson became the highest paid running back in the league and you can tell by the way he plays, he obviously does not care anymore. he's got his money, it's OK to lay down.


How about all the over paid players for the Jets? Sanchez never has looked like he gave a damn on the field when he forces that ball in double, triple coverage all the time.

I don't agree with giving anyone a big contract, especially someone that dropped 12 passes this season and was went on to drop more in the playoffs. All that will do is make his ego even bigger, but it's enough money, he don't have to worry about a thing.

If anything, if Finley stays and they give him a big contract, it will just make things worse. He already is a disease on this team. When he dropped passes on drives, it totally dismantled the rhythm of the offense. They went from fire to freezing on drives and ******** up. A big contract would just make him even worse, cause then it wouldn't matter. he could have his big money and lay down.

 

[ivo610]

IMO Finley is too young and too talented to give up on. I would prefer they sign him to a 3 or 4 year deal with incentives. But if they can't agree on a contract and if a tag and trade can't be done with Flynn, then tag Finley. Yes it's a guaranteed contract but only for one year. It would put pressure on him to perform, to focus.

If they let him hit the FA market, he's gone IMO. He and his agent would not be obligated to bring an offer back to Green Bay and if they can't agree on a contract before free agency, no way Thompson would match the kind of offer I'd expect him to receive. And let him and his agent challenge which tag applies to him, they'll lose that challenge.

Quarless is not as talented and he may never be the same after the injury he received.

Southpaw, you may regard ivo610's opinion as ridiculous but it's not an analogy. It's two statements of fact: "At worst he walks" and "we won without him", followed by an opinion that the Packers can again win without him. Look, I disagree completely with ivo610's opinion here - IMO they should tag him if he won't agree to a reasonable contract. I believe that because he's not even 25 years old - he was only 21 when drafted. If he were older and had trouble focusing enough to consistently catch the ball, I'd be advocating letting him walk. He is more important than his receiving numbers because opponents have to game plan for him. But if he continues dropping the ball, that'll stop. ivo610 apparently has the opinion that he won't improve in this area and he has the fact that Finley was on IR when the Packers made their incredible run to and through the playoffs in 2010 on his side. I disagree with him, but his opinion is not "idiotic".

Thank you for politely defending my comments.

 

[realcaliforniacheese]

I dont think you need to replace him. I think the offense would function fine without him. You still have Rodgers and the best set of WRs in the league.

While I see the potential for greatness, I dont think he is nearly as good as Packer fans seem to think he is.

But D's still have to account for him and his threat, especially in the red zone and that opens up alot of one on ones. I think it would be a big mistake to let him go, TE's of his size and speed are hard to find. you can fix the drop issue, you look at the stats and he is in the mix with the rest of the receivers. Who on the roster would step up to fill his spot, who would be the same threat as him?

 

[okcpackerfan]

If Finley does get a big contract, what do people expect out of that?

Fitzpatrick got a big contract half way into the season with the Bills, and he proceeded to throw picks like crazy after he started so well.

Michael Vick became the highest paid quarterback going into this season and did he look like he deserved it all year throwing picks?


Chris Johnson became the highest paid running back in the league and you can tell by the way he plays, he obviously does not care anymore. he's got his money, it's OK to lay down.


How about all the over paid players for the Jets? Sanchez never has looked like he gave a damn on the field when he forces that ball in double, triple coverage all the time.

I don't agree with giving anyone a big contract, especially someone that dropped 12 passes this season and was went on to drop more in the playoffs. All that will do is make his ego even bigger, but it's enough money, he don't have to worry about a thing.

If anything, if Finley stays and they give him a big contract, it will just make things worse. He already is a disease on this team. When he dropped passes on drives, it totally dismantled the rhythm of the offense. They went from fire to freezing on drives and ******** up. A big contract would just make him even worse, cause then it wouldn't matter. he could have his big money and lay down.

What about all the high paid players whose talent stayed the same or got better after getting paid? Someone with poor character will get affected whether they have money or not. The packers have been successful in drafting high character players. I think Finley has some issues but I also think that it's ok. I like a team with a few polarizing figures. The point is this, we do not know how Finley will play after he gets paid, we do know how he has played in the past and that has been very good. I want to keep as many weapons as fiscally possible on this offense

 

[DoddPower]

But D's still have to account for him and his threat, especially in the red zone and that opens up alot of one on ones. I think it would be a big mistake to let him go, TE's of his size and speed are hard to find. you can fix the drop issue, you look at the stats and he is in the mix with the rest of the receivers. Who on the roster would step up to fill his spot, who would be the same threat as him?

I mean, it's not like we wouldn't have a TE that have to be accounted for anymore. So, what, are defenses going to leave Williams, Taylor, Crabtree, and/or Quarless and maybe a draft pick wide open? All of these guys, especially Williams, can get open and catch the ball. Are they as talented as Finley? No, but that not a necessity. Why? Because we still have Jennings, Nelson, Jones, Cobb, Gurley, hopefully Green, and who knows who else by the time the season comes around. Finley is really good, but is he worth the massive difference in money than a guy like Williams? No, not if he gets that huge contract. Take a look back at TE Williams college career. Dude was a beast. He's only 6'2, but so is Dustin Keller, who is still a really good TE. It would be fantastic to have elite players at every position, but that's just not possible. We still have more weapons than most and will more than likely add at least one more play maker on offense via the draft. I would not be worried about the offense at all if Finley leaves. The defense, on the other hand, is a completely different story. Unless we significantly improve the defense this season, our high powered offense (with or without Finley) won't matter because we won't be in the Super Bowl.

 

[JTheGreat]

For everyone that blames our offense for losing in the playoffs, he is public enemy #1 as far as dropped passes go.

I don't want him back, his ego and all the dropped passes can go. i had a feeling it was going to happen in the playoffs. We would have a key 3rd down situation, and he would drop a ball, and sure enough he did on a 3rd and 5 call, since McCarthy already had panicked the game out the window and went for it on 4th down when it was still a 7 point game.

You know why he drops passes?
He knows about to get knocked down on his *** by a CB or Safety that will hurt you.

Compare that to Jimmy Graham, Vernon Davis, and Rob Gronkowski; those guys make the catches regardless if they are going to get hit or not. There's no way Finley will ever rank in the category of those guys if he's too chicken **** to catch. He was in the top 5 of dropped passes this season, and he didn't start dropping them until he *****ed about not getting the ball thrown to him enough. Case closed, let his ego go to the Eagles or Jets where he will fit in with all the big heads that think they are the greatest thing since a slice of bread.


As far as Finley being a great match up, that don't matter if he drops the ******* ball all day long. They aren't going to care about that. Graham and Davis are even better match ups as a TE against a defense, because they catch the damn ball!

BTW we won a Super Bowl without his arrogant waste of space.

He only had 1 clear drop that I could count and that was on a comeback route, the first play of the game was a sliding catch and the db led with the helmet. That big 3rd down play at the end of the game or whatever, rodgers missed him. For you to put the blame on finley in that game is crazy. When hes not catching balls hes being a decoy, hes a good stats player and some of the stuff he does doesnt show up in the box score.

 

[JTheGreat]

But D's still have to account for him and his threat, especially in the red zone and that opens up alot of one on ones. I think it would be a big mistake to let him go, TE's of his size and speed are hard to find. you can fix the drop issue, you look at the stats and he is in the mix with the rest of the receivers. Who on the roster would step up to fill his spot, who would be the same threat as him?

I agree, I think hes our #1 target in the redzone, especially goaline.

 

[ivo610]

If tagged as a TE he would be the 3rd highest paid player on the Packers.

If tagged as a hybrid (See Terrell Suggs dispute as an example) he would be the 2nd highest paid player on the Packers only slightly under Rodgers.

If tagged as a WR he would be the highest paid player on the Packers.

 

[13 Times Champs]

I have to laugh at people thinking he is going to break the Packer bank when they have no idea what it will take to keep him in the fold.

Prediction, Packers will sign him for a reasonable amount and the drops will be a thing of the past. To read some of the posts here you'd think he is Terrell Owens.

 

[Southpaw]

The offense last season as a whole actually improved when Finley went down. While you might not like the sample size the statement is true.

I'd like to see the evidence. I have doubts that you have any because clearly losing the player that was LEADING the team in receptions before he went down, clearly isn't going to improve anything.

For everyone that blames our offense for losing in the playoffs, he is public enemy #1 as far as dropped passes go.

I don't want him back, his ego and all the dropped passes can go. i had a feeling it was going to happen in the playoffs. We would have a key 3rd down situation, and he would drop a ball, and sure enough he did on a 3rd and 5 call, since McCarthy already had panicked the game out the window and went for it on 4th down when it was still a 7 point game.

You know why he drops passes?
He knows about to get knocked down on his *** by a CB or Safety that will hurt you.

Compare that to Jimmy Graham, Vernon Davis, and Rob Gronkowski; those guys make the catches regardless if they are going to get hit or not. There's no way Finley will ever rank in the category of those guys if he's too chicken **** to catch. He was in the top 5 of dropped passes this season, and he didn't start dropping them until he *****ed about not getting the ball thrown to him enough. Case closed, let his ego go to the Eagles or Jets where he will fit in with all the big heads that think they are the greatest thing since a slice of bread.


As far as Finley being a great match up, that don't matter if he drops the ******* ball all day long. They aren't going to care about that. Graham and Davis are even better match ups as a TE against a defense, because they catch the damn ball!

BTW we won a Super Bowl without his arrogant waste of space.

Please find the nearest cliff, preferably 100+ feet high with a hard surface at the bottom and jump off. Your retardation need not be spread any further.

Finley made one statement in his career with us that could be considered selfish, since then McCarthy has talked to him and he hasn't said **** since.

McCarthy has also said he's one of the hardest working guys on our team. I'll take his word over your utterly retarded opinions of a player that you don't know **** about

Prediction, Packers will sign him for a reasonable amount and the drops will be a thing of the past. To read some of the posts here you'd think he is Terrell Owens.

Only Bogart. I swear Finley must have done something to him personally. It's never ending and he never has a good reason for his hate.

Finley has never been the sole cause of us losing a game this season or any season. If you are going ***** about somebody or so mercilessly hate somebody at least have some good reason and be able to back it up with facts.

 

[FrankRizzo]

I don't really like J-Mike, and he seems CLEARLY to be a guy who is different than all the others who seem very unselfish and team-first. And Rodgers became a legend in 2010, with Finley on IR. And we won the Super Bowl.

None of that is disputable.

But remember what the Giants gameplan was: To stop #88.

If that doesn't tell you how important Finley is, than nothing will.

 

[Southpaw]

Exactly. I don't see what is so hard to understand about what big tight end can do for the rest of your offense. Do you honestly think opposing defenses go into the film room and the DC says "Don't worry about 88, he can't catch"

Give me a fuking break. Finley regardless of how inconsistent his hands are commands a double team.

Finley gets doubled with a LB and a Safety that means Jordy or Greg or Driver is going to get 1 on 1 coverage and that's a match-up that we've pretty much always won all season long.

But winning without Finley speaks more to our defense actually being good last year. An offense without Finley and that pitiful defense we had this year, guarateed we don't have the regular season record we had and Rodgers and the rest of the offense don't have the numbers they have.

 

[ivo610]

I'd like to see the evidence. I have doubts that you have any because clearly losing the player that was LEADING the team in receptions before he went down, clearly isn't going to improve anything.

Its been presented repeatedly on the forum, but if you know how to work a calculator you should be able to run the numbers yourself, its not that hard.

 

[Southpaw]

Its been presented repeatedly on the forum, but if you know how to work a calculator you should be able to run the numbers yourself, its not that hard.

Translation: I have no evidence.

 

[ivo610]

Translation: I have no evidence.

Seriously where did the attitude come from?

Like I said its been posted last season repeatedly in the forum, and the numbers are readily available for anyone with knowledge of how to use a calculator. I wouldnt make a statement like that if I was wrong and it could be proven easily.

 

[GreenBlood]

If the team can keep Finley at a reasonable price, then keep him. If he wants a ton, let him go. Use Quarless more and spend the saved money on defensive help.

QUARLESS??? Quarless is mediocre at the very best and that was BEFORE he blew his his knee out.