Lazard Situation...

Heyjoe4

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2018 source but probably not crazy different…I was shocked that running backs weren’t the shortest by a lot in comparison to the second and third spot…

Ummm RBs were the shortest with an average career of 2.57 years. I was surprised WRs were next. I wouldn't have guessed linemen cause they get hit in the head on just about every play. Thanks for the article.
 
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tynimiller

tynimiller

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Ummm RBs were the shortest with an average career of 2.57 years. I was surprised WRs were next. I wouldn't have guessed linemen cause they get hit in the head on just about every play. Thanks for the article.
I said I was shocked they weren’t the shortest by more…I know they were the shortest
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I was referring to all transactions, drafts, free agents pickups of all types. Some of Thompson's best moves were not big name players but in-season transactions during the 2010 season when were getting bludgeoned by injuries in rapid succession.
Still too early to grade Gute on his ability to draft, since it has been a mixed bag of homeruns and heartaches, as well as many of hus picks are still unknown quantities.

TT's strength early in his career was drafting, developing and low end "bargain" free agents. I think his drafting success dropped in the the last few yearscof his career. His 3 best free agent signings were probably Pickett, Woodson and Peppers.
 

captainWIMM

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2 years too early to fully look at the 2020 draft class. Doing so would require too much speculation IMO.

I'll let you talk about the 2020 class, since I know exactly where you will take the discussion. In 2 years, I'll be more than happy to look closer at it.

I agree it's too early to fairly evaluate the 2020 draft class. But don't fool yourself, the grade almost solely depends on how Love ends up working out.

Runyan in Round 6 appears to be an absolute steal. Even if he would lose his starting spot this year (doubtful) to have a 6th rounder starting out the gate and holding on to it for two years (even with the injury depleted line) that is not something anyone should expect.

Just for the record, Runyan wasn't a starter in his rookie season, playing a total of 160 snaps.

I guess we could go back to the 2018 draft and repick all of the selections, based on what we know today and judge Gute using that criteria?

How else would you judge a general manager???
 

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because when a Jury is out, they're still deliberating. no consensus has been reached. When the Jury is in, then you know the verdict :) This jury is still out.
I don't think the jury is out on him. I don't think the lawyers have even rested their cases yet.
 

PikeBadger

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Still too early to grade Gute on his ability to draft, since it has been a mixed bag of homeruns and heartaches, as well as many of hus picks are still unknown quantities.

TT's strength early in his career was drafting, developing and low end "bargain" free agents. I think his drafting success dropped in the the last few yearscof his career. His 3 best free agent signings were probably Pickett, Woodson and Peppers.
Yeah, I think if you compare the two GM's from their first five years, they'd look pretty similar. I don't think that's an accident either. Looking backwards further, Wolf's first 5 years are similar as well. I'd call that a trend. We're very fortunate that Wolf paved the way for this amazingly successful run. We've got Packer fans approaching middle age status that have never experienced the consistent losing and mediocre seasons without playoff hopes that some of us witnessed
 

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It was the 3rd pick in a row that did nothing to address improving the team for the upcoming season. I can't remember now but I am sure there was a player I was high on at a position of what IMO was a need available at the time.
Fantasizing about Mel Kiper being Packers GM? :)
 

Heyjoe4

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I figured minimum an entire year to nearest position if not like you said multiple
Just overall, the numbers were way lower than I would have guessed. But a lot of guys get drafted and play and fail. That all counts in the averages.
 
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Yeah, I think if you compare the two GM's from their first five years, they'd look pretty similar. I don't think that's an accident either. Looking backwards further, Wolf's first 5 years are similar as well. I'd call that a trend. We're very fortunate that Wolf paved the way for this amazingly successful run. We've got Packer fans approaching middle age status that have never experienced the consistent losing and mediocre seasons without playoff hopes that some of us witnessed
Amen.

I started really watching/listening in the mid 70’s. My first Packer miracle happened when we played the Rams in the late 70’s? We went back and forth and the Rams lined up for a chip shop winning FG for a walk off Win. I prayed on my knees to God to not let that FG make it and the Rams missed that sucker Wide. It was like old extra point distance or in that range?
That was about the highlight of my childhood I think?! Lol

We are in such a different age of football after Favrey and Rodgers. But I don’t feel much different. I’m not afraid to take a step back for a couple seasons and rebuild if needed because it’s not a big deal to me after living that for decades. So many people think all will be lost without Rodgers or Davante Adams or whatever, I Think this staff is fully capable of building a Championship team with or without Rodgers or Love for that matter. Gutey is easily an above average GM and MLF is probably still a top 10 Coach WITHOUT #12. Look at what Gutey did with Adams $$ and draft picks. Imagine having $50M and several extra Day 1 selections?? Especially if we selected a couple times in the top half of the draft.

This Receiver situation controversy is trivial compared to our ability as an entire franchise. As you said it’s all perspective. Looking at it all through the broad spectacles of a 70’s 80’s fan.
 
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Pokerbrat2000

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Yeah, I think if you compare the two GM's from their first five years, they'd look pretty similar. I don't think that's an accident either. Looking backwards further, Wolf's first 5 years are similar as well. I'd call that a trend. We're very fortunate that Wolf paved the way for this amazingly successful run. We've got Packer fans approaching middle age status that have never experienced the consistent losing and mediocre seasons without playoff hopes that some of us witnessed
I think most GM's strive for a decent balance between drafting, developing, good free agent signings and maybe most importantly, when to resign your own guys. Wolf, TT and Gute have all had the added help of GMing a team with a FHOF QB on it too. In the case of Wolf and TT, they were the ones responsible for bringing them to Green Bay, so that's bonus points for them. Not saying that was the only reason that all 3 have been more successful than other GM's, but it has had a lot to do with their successes.

As of today, Gute's drafts haven't been anything over the top fantastic, but he has found some good players. I think his Free Agent signings have been really good. The thing that stands out the most for me with Gute, is that it appears he is never done trying to improve the team. Just minor moves in the season, like the signing of guys like Rasul Douglas, shows me the guy is working all the time, even when his club is winning.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I agree it's too early to fairly evaluate the 2020 draft class. But don't fool yourself, the grade almost solely depends on how Love ends up working out.
Possibly for you, but I will grade all the players drafted and what they did or did not contribute while a Packer.
How else would you judge a general manager???
Using more relevant methods than saying "oh boy, had Gute picked these 7 players in 2018 and these 7 guys in 2019 and.......the Packers would have been so much better." The reality is you don't know how those other 7 players would have worked out in GB.

While drafting is a key component for a GM and his scouts, the decisions around the draft picks he made either are good ones or bad ones. Then, depending on how that particular player worked out in Green Bay, you can say "well that guy was a smart pick" or "well he didn't work out as expected." I doubt any GM was fired in 2009 and beyond for not drafting Aaron Rodgers in 2005. Had Brett Favre stayed in Atlanta, would he even have been the QB he ended up being? Every team, every situation is different. I prefer to work with relevant facts in evaluations, not hypotheticals.
 
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Possibly for you, but I will grade all the players drafted and what they did or did not contribute while a Packer.

Had Brett Favre stayed in Atlanta, would he even have been the QB he ended up being? Every team, every situation is different. I prefer to work with relevant facts in evaluations, not hypotheticals.
That’s really the truth isn’t it? It makes zero difference what a player does for our competition. That’s to their credit.

How many players did we used to see TT draft and then go on to have lucrative careers after basically not doing much here. That part goes more on a good team environment, position coaching, scheme fit, etc..
I think we often ridicule TT for stuff he had minimal control over. I think our coaching and player utilization were often substandard under coach MCCarthy. I’m pretty certain a top notch guy like Bill Bilicek would’ve gotten more out of our drafts simply because he’s better at evaluating player fits. TT missed in several areas but overall was above average. He became a scapegoat for the failures of others also.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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That’s really the truth isn’t it? It makes zero difference what a player does for our competition. That’s to their credit.

How many players did we used to see TT draft and then go on to have lucrative careers after basically not doing much here. That part goes more on a good team environment, position coaching, scheme fit, etc..
I think we often ridicule TT for stuff he had minimal control over. I think our coaching and player utilization were often substandard under coach MCCarthy. I’m pretty certain a top notch guy like Bill Bilicek would’ve gotten more out of our drafts simply because he’s better at evaluating player fits. TT missed in several areas but overall was above average. He became a scapegoat for the failures of others also.
Yes and it has a lot to do with how different circumstances can create different results. Was Davante Adams destined to be the #1 WR in the NFL before he was drafted by the Packers? Had the Jaguars drafted him, where would he be today in his career? Was Henry Ruggs destined to be in jail today or had the Packers drafted him, maybe he is a top 10 WR, preparing for the 2022 season? Had TT not drafted Rodgers, where would the Packer organization be today? Maybe better, maybe worse, we just don't know for sure. These are the main reasons I don't like this "had they just done this or that" as being evaluation criteria. Because had they done "this or that", nothing else remains constant, including the this and that and everything around it. I know damn well that so far Chase Claypool was a pretty good second round pick for the Steelers, but where would he be today had the Packers selected him?

There is nothing wrong with saying "IMO had the Packers not drafted AR, the Packers probably wouldn't have been as good." But to evaluate Ted Thompson in 2010, his team is struggling because Favre retired and they never drafted Rodgers, with an evaluation of "Thompson's big mistake was drafting Jason Campbell instead of Aaron Rodgers, is just guessing.
 
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captainWIMM

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Possibly for you, but I will grade all the players drafted and what they did or did not contribute while a Packer.

I will do that as well but taking a look at the Packers' 2020 draft class there aren't that many unknowns aside of Love anymore.

Dillon is an excellent running back, Runyan and Garvin significant contributors for day three picks, Martin and Stepaniak not with the team anymore and Hanson and Scott will most likely end up not having a huge impact.

That leaves Love and Deguara as the only players we still don't know enough about to make a fair evaluation.

Using more relevant methods than saying "oh boy, had Gute picked these 7 players in 2018 and these 7 guys in 2019 and.......the Packers would have been so much better." The reality is you don't know how those other 7 players would have worked out in GB.

While drafting is a key component for a GM and his scouts, the decisions around the draft picks he made either are good ones or bad ones. Then, depending on how that particular player worked out in Green Bay, you can say "well that guy was a smart pick" or "well he didn't work out as expected." I doubt any GM was fired in 2009 and beyond for not drafting Aaron Rodgers in 2005. Had Brett Favre stayed in Atlanta, would he even have been the QB he ended up being? Every team, every situation is different. I prefer to work with relevant facts in evaluations, not hypotheticals.

Yes and it has a lot to do with how different circumstances can create different results. Was Davante Adams destined to be the #1 WR in the NFL before he was drafted by the Packers? Had the Jaguars drafted him, where would he be today in his career? Was Henry Ruggs destined to be in jail today or had the Packers drafted him, maybe he is a top 10 WR, preparing for the 2022 season? Had TT not drafted Rodgers, where would the Packer organization be today? Maybe better, maybe worse, we just don't know for sure. These are the main reasons I don't like this "had they just done this or that" as being evaluation criteria. Because had they done "this or that", nothing else remains constant, including the this and that and everything around it. I know damn well that so far Chase Claypool was a pretty good second round pick for the Steelers, but where would he be today had the Packers selected him?

There is nothing wrong with saying "IMO had the Packers not drafted AR, the Packers probably wouldn't have been as good." But to evaluate Ted Thompson in 2010, his team is struggling because Favre retired and they never drafted Rodgers, with an evaluation of "Thompson's big mistake was drafting Jason Campbell instead of Aaron Rodgers, is just guessing.

I agree that there are no guarantees that a player who either worked out or not with a specific team would have followed the same path with another one. In my opinion it's probable that a player who excelled with one team would have been able to contribute with another as well. There's no doubt there are outliers like Ruggs but in most cases I believe good players would perform at a similar level with other teams as well.
 

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