Lang calls out Rodgers

[XPack]

Maybe Rodgers holds on the ball too long because his receivers couldn't get seperation quick. Last season with Cobb being double teamed and Adams not really efficient, it may be understandable...and the spillover to O-Line is just a domino effect.

I'd still blame it on misuse of pre-season and losing opportunity to fine tune the dynamics. Maybe i'm more optimistic, but a bit more practice/game time should resolve the issue.

Way too early to be talking of regression of such. Classic knee jerk.

 

[mongoosev]

This Rodgers criticism is just insane. The same posters who are criticizing Rodgers for a lack of patience in the pocket are the ones who are failing to display patience in an offense that had how many preseason snaps together? Please don't tell me I'm the only person who sees the irony in that.

Rodgers was 20-36 last night. I would say 5 or so of those incompletions came as a result of miscommunication with Jordy. There were also a couple of drops, not to mention the few times that Rodgers threw the ball away because either a receiver wasn't open, the pocket was collapsing, or both. So if Rodgers completes 5 more passes and goes 25-36, what are we talking about right now?

How many times did we try that laughably awful toss play to Lacy or Starks on first down? That put us in a lot of 2nd and 3rd and long situations after they were stuffed at the line on first down. Then Zimmer gets to tee off on Rodgers knowing that he is in an obvious passing down.

Again, not absolving Rodgers. He indeed missed a few throws. Adams and Jordy both had their guy beat on a couple of different occasions and if Rodgers makes a good throw, it's probably 6. But to say that he deserves close to 100% of the blame for the discombobulation on offense is just insane.

We are a field goal attempt and two uncharacteristic turnovers from Rodgers away from winning the game. The drives in the fourth quarter looked really good. More slant patterns, more underneath routes, etc. We definitely utilized the middle of the field more which is encouraging heading into the next game. Both turnovers occurred in Minnesota territory, and Rodgers just didn't come through.

The guy has the best TD to INT ratio in the history of the National Football League. He will clean that up. Meanwhile, he and Jordy will get their timing together, hopefully the running game that almost no one is talking about will improve, and fortunately for us we don't play Zimmer 16 times a year.

We are going to be fine.

I'm one of the last to criticize Rod but you have to admit something is just not right. Either it's him having timing issues or it's some tension in the locker room or he is trying to play hero or the same problems carried over from 2015....who knows. But something is not right. If only we had the answers.

 

[RepStar15]

I knew we were going to lose that game before it started. I took one look into Rodgers eyes and could tell he was not up for the game. Something is definitely going on. He does not look confident and I do not know if that has to do with his personal life, the men surrounding him or he is just not up for a challenge. One thing I know for sure, it is damn good veteran TJ Lang stepped up and said something. Rodgers is used to being the "golden boy." There is nothing wrong with that, but sometimes you can get complacent, and if no one calls you out, you may never snap out of it. I am happy Lang called him out. I am just not running with my tail between my legs because we lost to a great opponent in Week 2. I would rather a team that starts off rocky and progresses each game, than last years Packers that started off strong and looked like Cleveland by the end of the season. Light a fire under Rodgers, Mike McCarthey, Edgar Bennette and the recievers *** now, because we still have a full season ahead.

 

[PackerDNA]

I'm one of the last to criticize Rod but you have to admit something is just not right. Either it's him having timing issues or it's some tension in the locker room or he is trying to play hero or the same problems carried over from 2015....who knows. But something is not right. If only we had the answers.

It could be 'other factors', but IMO it boils down to from the neck up.
His fundamentals are going down the tubes. He's throwing off his back foot a lot, and his accuracy is suffering.
He bolts the pocket either too soon or for no good reason, and continues to hold the ball for too long, looking to 'make something happen' rather than just sticking with the design of the play and pulling the trigger when something is there.
He needs to clear his head and get back to basics. The longer the bad habits continue, the harder they'll be to correct.

 

[Mondio]

I think Lang was fine in everything he said. Nothing was "wrong" and nothing was out of bounds either. You can throw a teammate under a bus with statements or you can simply hold people accountable. It's a fine line, and not one many people should probably attempt to walk, but I think Lang did it well. He didn't single anyone out, because there was blame to go around, but he didn't let anybody off the hook either, especially the ones that needed to hear it the most. Who said Offensive linemen weren't smart?

 

[mongoosev]

It could be 'other factors', but IMO it boils down to from the neck up.
His fundamentals are going down the tubes. He's throwing off his back foot a lot, and his accuracy is suffering.
He bolts the pocket either too soon or for no good reason, and continues to hold the ball for too long, looking to 'make something happen' rather than just sticking with the design of the play and pulling the trigger when something is there.
He needs to clear his head and get back to basics. The longer the bad habits continue, the harder they'll be to correct.

It could happen to the best. I just hope he and the team address and overcome whatever the team is dealing with right now.

 

[bigbubbatd]

When you have a QB with an extreme tendency to hold on to the ball for too long and dance around in the pocket, its going to make the OL look bad by default. No Offensive Lineman wants to be pass blocking for 7-10 seconds on every single snap. No way. I know I wouldn't and yes, I'd get pissed off at my QB for it too.

Then they should also thank him for the numerous times he spins out of a sack. He causes sacks and he gets out of sacks. There were a few sacks that were straight up on the line Sunday. Bulaga got destroyed on the fumble. Bahk got beat badly by Griffen on one. I dont remember the others but there were probably 3-4 times that Rodgers evaded the rush. So if Rodgers caused a few sacks but also got away from a few a normal qb wouldnt have then in is mostly a moot point.

 

[Half Empty]

True, but I think it's probably on a par with the Favre syndrome - he won games he should have lost, but that didn't make me feel any better about the ones he lost that he should have won.

 

[bigbubbatd]

I simply dont understand the extremes people need to go to. Rodger's struggling. No doubt. But trade him? That is foolish. As bad as Rodgers was on Sunday the offense still moved the ball the entire second half and really only stopped themselves. Yes the Vikings defense made some plays but an ill-advised 4th down attempt, a poorly thrown INT (that would have been a completion on a decent pass) and a fumble all occurred in Viking's territory. So on a bad offensive night they drove into Vikings territory 4 times in one half and put up 200 plus yards. They should have come away with a minimum of 13 points in the 2nd half against a very good defense. All well playing most of the game with terrible field position. Think of what can happen if/when Rodgers gets a little more comfortable

 

[Mondio]

everyone wants to talk about how long this has been going on, and our offense has been down or sputtering for a while now stretching back to last year. No question. But look at last year and look at this year. I remember seeing iso's on Adams who looked sluggish and slow and couldn't catch a cold. They iso him this year and he's go guys beaten in he first 2 steps sometimes, last year he didn't and the excuse was nobody could win off the line. Well, they are now. Cobb couldn't beat press coverage, he had 1 good arm, this year he has 2 and he's been making plays. Jordy hasn't seen the field in a year with his QB, come on.

We start every year sluggish, and this year we are too, but it's for different reasons even though it looks similar to last year. I think these things will be worked out, because it's little things that will come with playing time.

 

[MadCat]

We have the offensive talent to do better than what we are seeing lately. I would like to see AR and MM forget about recapturing the magic of 2011 and shelf the big plays and focus on first downs, sustained drives and spreading the ball around (use the tight ends!), with a little more focus on the run as well. Things WILL start clicking.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Tempest in teapot.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Maybe Rodgers holds on the ball too long because his receivers couldn't get seperation quick.

Way too early to be talking of regression of such. Classic knee jerk.

There's absolutely no doubt Rodgers play has regressed over the last 14 games.

Receivers are getting open but for some reason Rodgers doesn't throw their way. Here's a link to a story in which Eric Baranczyk analyzed several examples.

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sp...anczyk-erratic-rodgers-far-mvp-form/90720516/

Then they should also thank him for the numerous times he spins out of a sack. He causes sacks and he gets out of sacks. There were a few sacks that were straight up on the line Sunday. Bulaga got destroyed on the fumble. Bahk got beat badly by Griffen on one. I dont remember the others but there were probably 3-4 times that Rodgers evaded the rush. So if Rodgers caused a few sacks but also got away from a few a normal qb wouldnt have then in is mostly a moot point.

Absolutely true that Rodgers' mobility benefits the offensive line as well. Lang complained about the quarterback holding on to the ball too long making it tough for the OL to block for an eternity though. McCarthy and the coaching staff tried to force Rodgers to theow the ball within 2.5 seconds of the snap more often several camps ago to take pressure off the line. Only one of the sacks happened within that time frame on Sunday.

everyone wants to talk about how long this has been going on, and our offense has been down or sputtering for a while now stretching back to last year. No question. But look at last year and look at this year. I remember seeing iso's on Adams who looked sluggish and slow and couldn't catch a cold. They iso him this year and he's go guys beaten in he first 2 steps sometimes, last year he didn't and the excuse was nobody could win off the line. Well, they are now. Cobb couldn't beat press coverage, he had 1 good arm, this year he has 2 and he's been making plays. Jordy hasn't seen the field in a year with his QB, come on.

If only the coaching staff could get Rodgers to throw to those open receivers.

 

[bigbubbatd]

Which sack between when Bulaga's and Bahk's was not under 2.5 seconds? Both of those involved the tackle getting beat right of the snap and the defender getting to the qb without much resistance

 

[7thFloorRA]

I absolutely want him to get the ball off in 2.5 seconds. Everygame I have a 3 count going as soon as the ball is snapped and I want to see the ball gone and it never is. He takes a year and a half to make a decision now. If you want those bombs you need to get some play action involved to realistically buy time.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

I simply dont understand the extremes people need to go to. Rodger's struggling. No doubt. But trade him? That is foolish. As bad as Rodgers was on Sunday the offense still moved the ball the entire second half and really only stopped themselves. Yes the Vikings defense made some plays but an ill-advised 4th down attempt, a poorly thrown INT (that would have been a completion on a decent pass) and a fumble all occurred in Viking's territory. So on a bad offensive night they drove into Vikings territory 4 times in one half and put up 200 plus yards. They should have come away with a minimum of 13 points in the 2nd half against a very good defense. All well playing most of the game with terrible field position. Think of what can happen if/when Rodgers gets a little more comfortable

Once Cutler comes back from his injury, he'll be ready to rock N roll! Maybe we send Rogers packing to the Bears for Jay Jay and Josh Sitton! That way we can make some of the posters on this site happy again. Too bad the Bears don't have Jared Allen to throw in and sweeten the pot! Dang it! What are we going to do? Where's that sharp knife?
Sorry......got carried away.

 

[PackAttack12]

I simply dont understand the extremes people need to go to. Rodger's struggling. No doubt. But trade him? That is foolish. As bad as Rodgers was on Sunday the offense still moved the ball the entire second half and really only stopped themselves. Yes the Vikings defense made some plays but an ill-advised 4th down attempt, a poorly thrown INT (that would have been a completion on a decent pass) and a fumble all occurred in Viking's territory. So on a bad offensive night they drove into Vikings territory 4 times in one half and put up 200 plus yards. They should have come away with a minimum of 13 points in the 2nd half against a very good defense. All well playing most of the game with terrible field position. Think of what can happen if/when Rodgers gets a little more comfortable

The problem with this post is that it includes far too much logic and reasoning.

But leave it to the pessimists to make it into something more than what it is. Everything wrong with this offense right now is absolutely correctable.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Which sack between when Bulaga's and Bahk's was not under 2.5 seconds? Both of those involved the tackle getting beat right of the snap and the defender getting to the qb without much resistance

According to Ryan Wood only Linval Joseph's sack happened within 2.5 seconds of the snap.

 

[bigbubbatd]

According to Ryan Wood only Linval Joseph's sack happened within 2.5 seconds of the snap.

Interesting. Both Bahk and Bulaga got beat very quickly and gave little resistance on their sacks. How hard is it to get a sack that quickly as an edge rusher?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I just can't believe that Rodgers went from the best QB in the NFL, and among the best ever, to bad in the space of one year. I can believe that QBs need more help from the coaches and team as they get older and I don't think Rodgers has gotten that and it's magnified the inevitable slight decline in his play. I'm becoming more concerned that the offensive success of this team was more a product of Rodgers being an amazing QB and not so much the coaches being offensive geniuses.

It's actually fairly easy to see which it is. If Rodgers was the driving force, then the coaches won't be able to help him and this would continue. If the coaches are as great offensively as some think, then they should be able to scheme this team to offensive success.

 

[Mondio]

I just can't believe that Rodgers went from the best QB in the NFL, and among the best ever, to bad in the space of one year. I can believe that QBs need more help from the coaches and team as they get older and I don't think Rodgers has gotten that and it's magnified the inevitable slight decline in his play. I'm becoming more concerned that the offensive success of this team was more a product of Rodgers being an amazing QB and not so much the coaches being offensive geniuses.

It's actually fairly easy to see which it is. If Rodgers was the driving force, then the coaches won't be able to help him and this would continue. If the coaches are as great offensively as some think, then they should be able to scheme this team to offensive success.

you tell me what scheme is going to work when he continuously is passing up open receivers to go for the big play. and to go back to last year, you tell me what scheme gets him to see a wide open Randall Cobb in the endzone on a perfectly run play, right up to the point Rodgers didn't throw it to him? Tell us, we're all waiting

 

[XPack]

There's absolutely no doubt Rodgers play has regressed over the last 14 games.

Receivers are getting open but for some reason Rodgers doesn't throw their way. Here's a link to a story in which Eric Baranczyk analyzed several examples.

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sp...anczyk-erratic-rodgers-far-mvp-form/90720516/

Very informative, but the article in itself claims it doesn't tell the full picture. I can understand regression as in losing power, accuracy etc...but how does one regress in reading of a game? Not looking at routes, not spotting a blitz or not finding wide open receivers is kind of a pattern that would get you off the boat at college, far less the NFL.

I still think the problems is not in Rodgers ability, but in the dynamic with O-Line and receivers....more importantly the game plan. From the timeout fiasco's to all the players not understanding the playbook seem to be the where the problem lies.

 

[Mondio]

I'd like to see them line up and just run a play. I don't care if it's 5 yards at a time to the TE's over and over and over again. Just call it in a huddle, line up, and run it. If anything has gone stale, I think it's defenses know what Rodgers is going to change to when they give him a certain look.

 

[Half Empty]

The problem with this post is that it includes far too much logic and reasoning.

But leave it to the pessimists to make it into something more than what it is. Everything wrong with this offense right now is absolutely correctable.

So, "we'll get that fixed"?

 

[sschind]

The most concerning part about Rodgers struggling is that it has been going on for 14 consecutive games. There's absolutely no doubt he can perform on an elite level but something is off with his game and I'm not convinced it will change over the next few weeks without fundamentally changing some things.

I don't think there is anything wrong with Rodgers outside of his head. He still has the skills to be the best QB in the game if he just goes back to the way he used to do things. For whatever reason he thinks he has to do things differently. Maybe he doesn't have faith that the team can get it done so he tries to do it all on his own. Maybe he thinks the team needs the big play to win. Maybe he is afraid of getting killed back there. Maybe all he cares about is the highlight reel passes. Maybe Maybe Maybe... I'm not sure what others can do to change his mindset other than to make him aware of the fact that it doesn't need to be that way. Of course Aaron will tell you its none of those things (and it may not be) so until he sees the difference it is unlikely anything will change.

I think Lang was fine in everything he said. Nothing was "wrong" and nothing was out of bounds either. You can throw a teammate under a bus with statements or you can simply hold people accountable. It's a fine line, and not one many people should probably attempt to walk, but I think Lang did it well. He didn't single anyone out, because there was blame to go around, but he didn't let anybody off the hook either, especially the ones that needed to hear it the most. Who said Offensive linemen weren't smart?

I'm sure someone can help me out but two things regarding team cohesiveness came to mind since the viking game. 1) I wonder if Tretter was showing a bit more emotion on his unsportsmanlike conduct penalty than he may have had Rodgers not chewed him out for not snapping the ball and maybe getting a free play earlier in the game. Was he trying to get back in Rodgers' good graces by coming to his defense? 2) I wonder if Lang's comments might not have had something to do with Rodgers chewing out Tretter. You know, us linemen have each others backs. Probably nothing to either one but its just something I thought of.

I simply dont understand the extremes people need to go to. Rodger's struggling. No doubt. But trade him? That is foolish. As bad as Rodgers was on Sunday the offense still moved the ball the entire second half and really only stopped themselves. Yes the Vikings defense made some plays but an ill-advised 4th down attempt, a poorly thrown INT (that would have been a completion on a decent pass) and a fumble all occurred in Viking's territory. So on a bad offensive night they drove into Vikings territory 4 times in one half and put up 200 plus yards. They should have come away with a minimum of 13 points in the 2nd half against a very good defense. All well playing most of the game with terrible field position. Think of what can happen if/when Rodgers gets a little more comfortable

I think fans are more concerned than we might be because we know how things were and most of us feel they can be that way again. We think that whatever is wrong with Rodgers can be fixed and we are frustrated that they are not being fixed. I don't think anyone is saying Rodgers is the only problem but he is the QB and it starts with him. The fact that there does seem to be something very different with AR's game makes it that much easier to place the lions share of the blame on him. Its not like a career middle of the road guy where we all just sit back and say "if only he would be better" We know what can happen when Rodgers gets a little more comfortable and that's what has us screaming for him to hurry up and get there.

We have the offensive talent to do better than what we are seeing lately. I would like to see AR and MM forget about recapturing the magic of 2011 and shelf the big plays and focus on first downs, sustained drives and spreading the ball around (use the tight ends!), with a little more focus on the run as well. Things WILL start clicking.

Back to basics. Quit trying to impress everyone with how much you know and and how impressive you can be just kick their ***** on the field.

I'd like to see them line up and just run a play. I don't care if it's 5 yards at a time to the TE's over and over and over again. Just call it in a huddle, line up, and run it. If anything has gone stale, I think it's defenses know what Rodgers is going to change to when they give him a certain look.

When a QB recognizes a defensive formation and calls an audible to exploit it that's great but when the defense knows what the audible is going to be who is in the drivers seat. Certainly not the offense. Sometimes when a defense shows a particular look it may be better to simply run the play you called as opposed to falling all over yourself to change the play to exploit the look. As long as the look the defense is giving doesn't stack up particularly well against your original play it may be better to run it. Example, its 3-1 at your own 40. You call a short pass to the TE over the middle for a 3-4 yard gain. You come to the line and the defense has stacked the LOS showing that it expects a run up the middle which means your original play call has a pretty good chance of succeeding but you notice your star WR is 1 on 1 with a guy who just came into the game. Instead of changing the call to try to beat the new guy just go with the short pass and move the chains. Yeah, if it works its great but if the defense knows you are going to try and beat the new guy you are playing right into their hands.